K-x owner sooo overwhelmed re: buying a flash

kmwsbabe · 09-28-2010, 03:21 PM

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I've read just about everything I've found on flash through the search function, and am feeling overwhelmed to the power of infinity.

Can someone just break it down a bit for me? A lot of what I am reading I "get" in a theoretical sense, but I definitely learn and internalize better through doing.

I'm shooting with the k-x. What I need/want in a flash:
-Can be used on camera safely (no voltage issues). I *think* I would prefer auto capability for this for quick candids, etc...
-Rotate/pivot for bounce when on camera
-Powerful enough to use off camera (primarily for portraits to avoid blowing the background), bounced off plm
-Cheap <$150, preferably

I'm a total newbie at this, so please keep it simple. I don't want to photograph the dark side of the moon. Just have a nice option for additional lighting when I need it.

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

Rupert · 09-28-2010, 03:51 PM

I am not a flash expert, and there are a lot of flashes available, so it may be difficult to decide which one is best for you.
I do have both the Pentax 540 and 360 flashes and have no complaint on either one. The 360 is considerably cheaper, and to be honest is my favorite of the two....being a little smaller, yet fully capable for most use. It is PTTL and operates very nicely on my K20D with adjustments being easy to make if needed.
Hope this helps you a little.....
Best Regards!

twitch · 09-28-2010, 04:11 PM

Well, pTTL + auto + swivel & tilt + sufficient power for bounce is not a $150 flash. Your budget is too low if those are the features you want. For $220ish though, the Metz 48 would fit the bill (except auto), although it's recently been replaced I think by the Metz 50. Maybe then the 48 will be discounted?

Anyway, the 48 is the flash I use on my K-x and it is fantastic. From my experience, shooting in M mode on the camera and pTTL on the flash with FEC adjusted to suit, seems to get the best results.

taiweitai · 09-28-2010, 04:31 PM

I guess just wait and see, there are serveral models just released at Photokina, the older models from Metz and Sigma seems like will get a drop

kmwsbabe · 09-28-2010, 04:57 PM

Hey, thanks for both of those replies, Rupert and twitch. I may just hold off if I need to spend a little bit more so I can get everything I want. But I am also looking at this:
DIGITAL PTTL Bounce LCD Power Zoom Flash for PENTAX SLR - eBay (item 190437455486 end time Sep-28-10 17:52:55 PDT)

Is it missing anything that I mentioned, or something that would be important?

Oh, and there's also the LumoPro LP160. It's just a hair over the $150, and looks really promising.

kmwsbabe · 09-28-2010, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by taiweitai

I guess just wait and see, there are serveral models just released at Photokina, the older models from Metz and Sigma seems like will get a drop

That is a very important point as well. Thanks for bringing it up.

Jodokast96 · 09-28-2010, 05:14 PM

Vivitar DF 283 Series 1 Digital TTL Shoe Mount DF-283-PEN - B&H

GeneV · 09-28-2010, 05:33 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kmwsbabe

That is a very important point as well. Thanks for bringing it up.

I highly recommend getting a flash such as the Metz 48 or Pentax 360 or 540 which can operate as wireless slaves. Using a bounced flash off camera along with your built-in flash will make a huge improvement on your flash work over using either flash in direct mode, alone. In addition, I've wondered about how the Kx plastic body will do with heavy shoe-mounted flashes over time.

kmwsbabe · 09-28-2010, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Jodokast96

Vivitar DF 283 Series 1 Digital TTL Shoe Mount DF-283-PEN - B&H

THAT looks interesting! Thank you!

kmwsbabe · 09-28-2010, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by GeneV

I highly recommend getting a flash such as the Metz 48 or Pentax 360 or 540 which can operate as wireless slaves. Using a bounced flash off camera along with your built-in flash will make a huge improvement on your flash work over using either flash in direct mode, alone. In addition, I've wondered about how the Kx plastic body will do with heavy shoe-mounted flashes over time.

You know, I was thinking about this setup as well. And the 360 is really not that pricey, all things considered. As for the k-x/plastic body, I'm hoping that will not really be too much of a consideration. My plan is to upgrade to the k-5 if the actual user reviews turn out positive (of which I am very hopeful!), and hang onto the k-x for backup .

twitch · 09-28-2010, 08:24 PM

I don't recommend the 360, no swivel means raccoon eyes in bouncing. When bouncing it's best to bouce off a wall so you get directional light across the face. Also, the 48 is the same price, yet much more power and is able to swivel.

GeneV · 09-30-2010, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by twitch

I don't recommend the 360, no swivel means raccoon eyes in bouncing. When bouncing it's best to bouce off a wall so you get directional light across the face. Also, the 48 is the same price, yet much more power and is able to swivel.

If you are using it off camera, it won't matter, but that is a plus for the Metz. The plus for the 360 woluld be that it could be used to trigger another flash in P-TTL, while the Metz can't. That may not be a big deal.

FWIW, I own an AF540, and my next flash will probably be a Metz if it is not a ring flash.

newarts · 10-01-2010, 01:00 AM

I got a Rokinon very similar to the Vivitar and flash you indicated; I believe the same flashes are also marketed as Bower.

The version comparable to the Pentax360 in flash power costs $76.49 at Rokinon D900AFZ-P Zoom Flash Digital Camera for Pentax Cameras | Overstock.com

Mine works well, and can be swiveled. The only thing lacking appears to be wireless capability for off-camera work, therefore I bought a $26 cable for off-camera use.http://www.amazon.com/3ft-PTTL-Off-Camera-Pentax-Cameras/dp/B0017D3Z5G/ref=s...5920524&sr=1-3

I notice the flash you linked to has wireless capability and power comparable to the Pentax 360....I'd go for it if it has wireless P-TTL! (I posted a question asking if the claimed wireless mode functions with P-TTL. They respnded:
"works like a charm on p-ttl

Cordially,
Luis M. Montoya
customer service")

Disclaimer: I do not have extensive flash experience.

Dave

GeneV · 10-01-2010, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by newarts

I got a Rokinon very similar to the Vivitar and flash you indicated; I believe the same flashes are also marketed as Bower.

The version comparable to the Pentax360 in flash power costs $76.49 at Rokinon D900AFZ-P Zoom Flash Digital Camera for Pentax Cameras | Overstock.com

Mine works well, and can be swiveled. The only thing lacking appears to be wireless capability for off-camera work, therefore I bought a $26 cable for off-camera use.Amazon.com: 3ft. HD PTTL Off-Camera Cord for Pentax Cameras: Electronics

I notice the flash you linked to has Pentax wireless capability and power comparable to the Pentax 360....I'd go for it!

Disclaimer: I do not have extensive flash experience.

Dave

Be very careful about listings that say "wireless slave" capability. What Pentax, Metz and other fully dedicated flashes offer is "wireless P-TTL" which controls the light output using metering through the lens. "Wireless slave" on Ebay often means simply that the light from one flash will cause the flash to fire, without otherwise controlling the flash output. Because of the preflash of a Pentax on-camera flash, these may not even work properly for their limited capability. I have also seen "wireless flash" applied to a flash packaged with an inexpensive wireless trigger that also offers no control.

For whatever reason, wireless P-TTL using the on-camera flash to control and fill is the only use I get of P-TTL that gives me simple and satisfactory results 100% of the time, and it is well worth the additional money to be sure the flash will function in this mode. Once I set the flash up for the bounce somewhere in the room, I, or anyone else with one of my DSLRs (or even my ZX-L film SLR) set to the same channel can take photos from anywhere in the room and get well exposed results free of glaring beams and amateurish shadows. This mode works even better than a heavy bracket and cable.

ozzi-paul · 10-01-2010, 07:03 AM

+1 for the Metz 48. I use mine on a K20D, very easy to use and good power. Tilt & turn head is great and its built pretty well to.
P-TTL is easy to use, so auto is not really needed, actually, in my eyes, P-TTL is virtually like auto anyway, there's not to much you need to do.

09-28-2010, 03:21 PM	#1
kmwsbabe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 100	K-x owner sooo overwhelmed re: buying a flash Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. I've read just about everything I've found on flash through the search function, and am feeling overwhelmed to the power of infinity. Can someone just break it down a bit for me? A lot of what I am reading I "get" in a theoretical sense, but I definitely learn and internalize better through doing. I'm shooting with the k-x. What I need/want in a flash: -Can be used on camera safely (no voltage issues). I think I would prefer auto capability for this for quick candids, etc... -Rotate/pivot for bounce when on camera -Powerful enough to use off camera (primarily for portraits to avoid blowing the background), bounced off plm -Cheap <$150, preferably I'm a total newbie at this, so please keep it simple. I don't want to photograph the dark side of the moon. Just have a nice option for additional lighting when I need it. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

10-01-2010, 01:00 AM	#13
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	I got a Rokinon very similar to the Vivitar and flash you indicated; I believe the same flashes are also marketed as Bower. The version comparable to the Pentax360 in flash power costs $76.49 at Rokinon D900AFZ-P Zoom Flash Digital Camera for Pentax Cameras \| Overstock.com Mine works well, and can be swiveled. The only thing lacking appears to be wireless capability for off-camera work, therefore I bought a $26 cable for off-camera use.http://www.amazon.com/3ft-PTTL-Off-Camera-Pentax-Cameras/dp/B0017D3Z5G/ref=s...5920524&sr=1-3 I notice the flash you linked to has wireless capability and power comparable to the Pentax 360....I'd go for it if it has wireless P-TTL! (I posted a question asking if the claimed wireless mode functions with P-TTL. They respnded: "works like a charm on p-ttl Cordially, Luis M. Montoya customer service") Disclaimer: I do not have extensive flash experience. Dave Last edited by newarts; 10-01-2010 at 10:20 AM.

10-01-2010, 01:31 AM	#14
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by newarts I got a Rokinon very similar to the Vivitar and flash you indicated; I believe the same flashes are also marketed as Bower. The version comparable to the Pentax360 in flash power costs $76.49 at Rokinon D900AFZ-P Zoom Flash Digital Camera for Pentax Cameras \| Overstock.com Mine works well, and can be swiveled. The only thing lacking appears to be wireless capability for off-camera work, therefore I bought a $26 cable for off-camera use.Amazon.com: 3ft. HD PTTL Off-Camera Cord for Pentax Cameras: Electronics I notice the flash you linked to has Pentax wireless capability and power comparable to the Pentax 360....I'd go for it! Disclaimer: I do not have extensive flash experience. Dave Be very careful about listings that say "wireless slave" capability. What Pentax, Metz and other fully dedicated flashes offer is "wireless P-TTL" which controls the light output using metering through the lens. "Wireless slave" on Ebay often means simply that the light from one flash will cause the flash to fire, without otherwise controlling the flash output. Because of the preflash of a Pentax on-camera flash, these may not even work properly for their limited capability. I have also seen "wireless flash" applied to a flash packaged with an inexpensive wireless trigger that also offers no control. For whatever reason, wireless P-TTL using the on-camera flash to control and fill is the only use I get of P-TTL that gives me simple and satisfactory results 100% of the time, and it is well worth the additional money to be sure the flash will function in this mode. Once I set the flash up for the bounce somewhere in the room, I, or anyone else with one of my DSLRs (or even my ZX-L film SLR) set to the same channel can take photos from anywhere in the room and get well exposed results free of glaring beams and amateurish shadows. This mode works even better than a heavy bracket and cable. Last edited by GeneV; 10-01-2010 at 05:36 AM.

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09-28-2010, 03:51 PM	#2
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I am not a flash expert, and there are a lot of flashes available, so it may be difficult to decide which one is best for you. I do have both the Pentax 540 and 360 flashes and have no complaint on either one. The 360 is considerably cheaper, and to be honest is my favorite of the two....being a little smaller, yet fully capable for most use. It is PTTL and operates very nicely on my K20D with adjustments being easy to make if needed. Hope this helps you a little..... Best Regards!

09-28-2010, 04:11 PM	#3
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Well, pTTL + auto + swivel & tilt + sufficient power for bounce is not a $150 flash. Your budget is too low if those are the features you want. For $220ish though, the Metz 48 would fit the bill (except auto), although it's recently been replaced I think by the Metz 50. Maybe then the 48 will be discounted? Anyway, the 48 is the flash I use on my K-x and it is fantastic. From my experience, shooting in M mode on the camera and pTTL on the flash with FEC adjusted to suit, seems to get the best results.

09-28-2010, 04:31 PM	#4
taiweitai Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: HI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 168	I guess just wait and see, there are serveral models just released at Photokina, the older models from Metz and Sigma seems like will get a drop

09-28-2010, 04:57 PM	#5
kmwsbabe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 100 Original Poster	Hey, thanks for both of those replies, Rupert and twitch. I may just hold off if I need to spend a little bit more so I can get everything I want. But I am also looking at this: DIGITAL PTTL Bounce LCD Power Zoom Flash for PENTAX SLR - eBay (item 190437455486 end time Sep-28-10 17:52:55 PDT) Is it missing anything that I mentioned, or something that would be important? Oh, and there's also the LumoPro LP160. It's just a hair over the $150, and looks really promising.

09-28-2010, 04:59 PM	#6
kmwsbabe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 100 Original Poster	Originally posted by taiweitai I guess just wait and see, there are serveral models just released at Photokina, the older models from Metz and Sigma seems like will get a drop That is a very important point as well. Thanks for bringing it up.

09-28-2010, 05:14 PM	#7
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	Vivitar DF 283 Series 1 Digital TTL Shoe Mount DF-283-PEN - B&H

09-28-2010, 05:33 PM - 1 Like	#8
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by kmwsbabe That is a very important point as well. Thanks for bringing it up. I highly recommend getting a flash such as the Metz 48 or Pentax 360 or 540 which can operate as wireless slaves. Using a bounced flash off camera along with your built-in flash will make a huge improvement on your flash work over using either flash in direct mode, alone. In addition, I've wondered about how the Kx plastic body will do with heavy shoe-mounted flashes over time.

09-28-2010, 07:59 PM	#9
kmwsbabe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 100 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jodokast96 Vivitar DF 283 Series 1 Digital TTL Shoe Mount DF-283-PEN - B&H THAT looks interesting! Thank you!

09-28-2010, 08:07 PM	#10
kmwsbabe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 100 Original Poster	Originally posted by GeneV I highly recommend getting a flash such as the Metz 48 or Pentax 360 or 540 which can operate as wireless slaves. Using a bounced flash off camera along with your built-in flash will make a huge improvement on your flash work over using either flash in direct mode, alone. In addition, I've wondered about how the Kx plastic body will do with heavy shoe-mounted flashes over time. You know, I was thinking about this setup as well. And the 360 is really not that pricey, all things considered. As for the k-x/plastic body, I'm hoping that will not really be too much of a consideration. My plan is to upgrade to the k-5 if the actual user reviews turn out positive (of which I am very hopeful!), and hang onto the k-x for backup .

09-28-2010, 08:24 PM	#11
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	I don't recommend the 360, no swivel means raccoon eyes in bouncing. When bouncing it's best to bouce off a wall so you get directional light across the face. Also, the 48 is the same price, yet much more power and is able to swivel.

09-30-2010, 07:06 PM	#12
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by twitch I don't recommend the 360, no swivel means raccoon eyes in bouncing. When bouncing it's best to bouce off a wall so you get directional light across the face. Also, the 48 is the same price, yet much more power and is able to swivel. If you are using it off camera, it won't matter, but that is a plus for the Metz. The plus for the 360 woluld be that it could be used to trigger another flash in P-TTL, while the Metz can't. That may not be a big deal. FWIW, I own an AF540, and my next flash will probably be a Metz if it is not a ring flash.

10-01-2010, 07:03 AM	#15
ozzi-paul Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: N/E Victoria, Australia, on the mighty Murray River. Photos: Albums Posts: 141	+1 for the Metz 48. I use mine on a K20D, very easy to use and good power. Tilt & turn head is great and its built pretty well to. P-TTL is easy to use, so auto is not really needed, actually, in my eyes, P-TTL is virtually like auto anyway, there's not to much you need to do.