My Dilemma Flash units -AF400T.

Peter Zack · 09-19-2007, 07:05 PM

Well back in the film days I had an LX and a 6x7. For those I have 2 AF400T's with the cables (long and short) Quantum batteries etc. Well the cameras are gone but I hung on to the flash units. They of course don't work well with the K10D particularly if you need to do things quickly. I wanted to use them to shoot weddings (which I do to feed the LBA).

So the choice is 1)sell them and get another AF540 (and get a lousy $150 for a $500 unit that has no equal). 2) Look for a *ist D that will work with the flash or 3) wait and see if Pentax might introduce a TTL/P-TTL body that will support the flash. I don't really foresee using them for any studio work so What would you suggest? I hate to part with them as they are so versatile and always worked flawlessly and with the quantum they recycle much faster than the AF540.

If anyone has tried using these and found a consistent way to use them on the K10D I'd love to hear about it. My results have involved a lot of bracketing, hit and miss.

Any advice? Anyone think they will add TTL in a new body down the road?

Ben_Edict · 09-21-2007, 07:16 AM

You can be sure, that there will never be a new body supporting the old TTL-mode. It doesn't work well with digital sensors anyway, as the reflection from the film surface (for which TTL flash mode was developped) is obviously very, very different from that produce by a digital sensor.

So, you could buy an "old" istD or istDS (you still get istD new from Cameta Cameras), which I personally wouldn't do. But I must say, that the istDS at least worked quite good in TTL-mode with my old AF280T.

You can use the 400T easily enough in A-mode, because, if I remember rightly, it offers quite a choice of different aperture settings. And with the exposure control via the LCD screen, it is not to much of trial and error.

I would keep the flash and look, whether you find a connection cable from your Quantum battery to one of the newer flash guns (like the 540) and try to use that.

regards
Ben

**grhazelton** · 10-29-2007, 10:43 AM

Yep, the AF400T works well enough with the K10D. While I miss the seamless automation it provides on my beloved LX - ready light in the viewfinder, automatic shutter speed setting to X - it gives me a powerful flash with tilt and rotate head to use while I ponder the injustice of having to buy a P-TTL flash for the K10D.

BTW, I measured the trigger voltage as 7.4 volts per a digital VOM. A safe value.

and · 10-29-2007, 10:53 AM

if they have an A mode then that can be used. if they have an M mode then that can be used too. M mode for flash really isnt that hard. because there are not that many choices. I find using my Nikon flashes in M works reasonably well, if you are in the same location then the setting doesnt change that much

roy · 10-29-2007, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

You can be sure, that there will never be a new body supporting the old TTL-mode. It doesn't work well with digital sensors anyway, as the reflection from the film surface (for which TTL flash mode was developped) is obviously very, very different from that produce by a digital sensor.
Ben

i can see you obviously have not used a TTL flash on the D,DS,DS2. TTL works just as nice as it did with film. i use a 400ftz all the time and a sigma 500 super in TTL and an OLD vivitar 550TTL with no problems at all. all on and off camera..
it's my understanding that in TTL the cam does not take a reading off the sensor but from another sensor. that's why they dropped TTL because of the extra wiring and cost it required.

pete, i'd look around for a D or DS. they really aren't more $$ than a 540..

anomaly · 10-29-2007, 03:03 PM

Why won't it work with the K10D?

Forgive my ignorance.

Peter Zack · 10-29-2007, 04:26 PM

Funny how a month old thread will resurface. I had decided to get a *istD and it arrived today. I did some test shooting with the "new" camera and the AF400T (which for those that don't know it was the older handle mounted pro flash for LX/645/6x7). Works just fine as far as I can see so far.

It was cheaper than a new AF540 and the camera came with a grip! I have used the AF400T on the k10D but the issue was that I wanted it for weddings. I can adjust the flash/camera to take a shot when the time permits between shots but anyone that's shot a wedding knows that you have no time to make adjustments or test shots at weddings. The *istD is perfect and the bonus is it's better in low light in the church when a flash isn't allowed. The other nice thing is the camera is basically laid out the same as the K10D. So no having to make a "brain switch" when moving quickly and changing bodies.

As for why TTL doesn't work vs P-TTL. Well the main reason is that Pentax and other brands decided to move away from the TTL system. It read off the film plane and the sensor is much more reflective so they felt the results were inconsistant. I can't say for all models (the *istD does) but I certain that all the D series cameras had an additional sensor in the mirror bucket that was used for the TTL flash. To save costs they dropped that sensor in the newer K series.

There was a good thread discussing some of this here. Just ignore the last idiot (RiceHigh):

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/13886-ttl-p-ttl-flash.html

Last edited by Peter Zack; 10-29-2007 at 04:41 PM.

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-30-2007, 04:49 AM

Peer

I hope you like the *istD. I have kept mine for just that reason, TTL flash.

You will run into a second benefit, should you ever get any K mount lenses. TTL works with those also, where as the K10D and the P-TTL can't work with K mount lenses because there is no lens apature information.

Peter Zack · 10-30-2007, 07:29 PM

So far so good Lowell. The only K mount I have is the 300 f4 (which is a smokin' lens BTW). Not one I will likely use a flash with very often although that AF400T has a hellava reach. Humm maybe regretting selling the K 28 & 35mm.....

roy · 10-31-2007, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

Peer

I hope you like the *istD. I have kept mine for just that reason, TTL flash.

You will run into a second benefit, should you ever get any K mount lenses. TTL works with those also, where as the K10D and the P-TTL can't work with K mount lenses because there is no lens apature information.

lowell,
i haven't upgraded but the DS will definately be staying in my kit because of the TTL. also works great with M42 lenses..

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-31-2007, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

The only K mount I have is the 300 f4 (which is a smokin' lens BTW). Not one I will likely use a flash with very often although that AF400T has a hellava reach.

you should rethink the flash with the 300 f4.

see my post in the attached thread, with a shot using a 300 f4 plus 1.7x AF TC

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/13369-animal-photography-2.html

Used either an AF500FTZ or AF540FGZ I can't remember which and they both work in TTL mode on the *istD

Peter Zack · 10-31-2007, 02:23 PM

Lowell, Well other than the flash units we have the same setup (although the power is about equal). I'd forgotten that shot and liked it when you first posted it. I'll have to give that combo a try and do some practicing. Looks good!

09-19-2007, 07:05 PM	#1
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	My Dilemma Flash units -AF400T. Well back in the film days I had an LX and a 6x7. For those I have 2 AF400T's with the cables (long and short) Quantum batteries etc. Well the cameras are gone but I hung on to the flash units. They of course don't work well with the K10D particularly if you need to do things quickly. I wanted to use them to shoot weddings (which I do to feed the LBA). So the choice is 1)sell them and get another AF540 (and get a lousy $150 for a $500 unit that has no equal). 2) Look for a *ist D that will work with the flash or 3) wait and see if Pentax might introduce a TTL/P-TTL body that will support the flash. I don't really foresee using them for any studio work so What would you suggest? I hate to part with them as they are so versatile and always worked flawlessly and with the quantum they recycle much faster than the AF540. If anyone has tried using these and found a consistent way to use them on the K10D I'd love to hear about it. My results have involved a lot of bracketing, hit and miss. Any advice? Anyone think they will add TTL in a new body down the road?

10-29-2007, 10:43 AM	#3
grhazelton Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jonesboro, GA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,972	Af400t Yep, the AF400T works well enough with the K10D. While I miss the seamless automation it provides on my beloved LX - ready light in the viewfinder, automatic shutter speed setting to X - it gives me a powerful flash with tilt and rotate head to use while I ponder the injustice of having to buy a P-TTL flash for the K10D. BTW, I measured the trigger voltage as 7.4 volts per a digital VOM. A safe value.

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09-21-2007, 07:16 AM	#2
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	You can be sure, that there will never be a new body supporting the old TTL-mode. It doesn't work well with digital sensors anyway, as the reflection from the film surface (for which TTL flash mode was developped) is obviously very, very different from that produce by a digital sensor. So, you could buy an "old" istD or istDS (you still get istD new from Cameta Cameras), which I personally wouldn't do. But I must say, that the istDS at least worked quite good in TTL-mode with my old AF280T. You can use the 400T easily enough in A-mode, because, if I remember rightly, it offers quite a choice of different aperture settings. And with the exposure control via the LCD screen, it is not to much of trial and error. I would keep the flash and look, whether you find a connection cable from your Quantum battery to one of the newer flash guns (like the 540) and try to use that. regards Ben

10-29-2007, 10:53 AM	#4
and Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,476	if they have an A mode then that can be used. if they have an M mode then that can be used too. M mode for flash really isnt that hard. because there are not that many choices. I find using my Nikon flashes in M works reasonably well, if you are in the same location then the setting doesnt change that much

10-29-2007, 02:44 PM	#5
roy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: D/FW area, Tx. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,710	Originally posted by Ben_Edict You can be sure, that there will never be a new body supporting the old TTL-mode. It doesn't work well with digital sensors anyway, as the reflection from the film surface (for which TTL flash mode was developped) is obviously very, very different from that produce by a digital sensor. Ben i can see you obviously have not used a TTL flash on the D,DS,DS2. TTL works just as nice as it did with film. i use a 400ftz all the time and a sigma 500 super in TTL and an OLD vivitar 550TTL with no problems at all. all on and off camera.. it's my understanding that in TTL the cam does not take a reading off the sensor but from another sensor. that's why they dropped TTL because of the extra wiring and cost it required. pete, i'd look around for a D or DS. they really aren't more $$ than a 540..

10-29-2007, 03:03 PM	#6
anomaly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Barbados Photos: Gallery Posts: 264	Why won't it work with the K10D? Forgive my ignorance.

10-29-2007, 04:26 PM	#7
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643 Original Poster	Funny how a month old thread will resurface. I had decided to get a istD and it arrived today. I did some test shooting with the "new" camera and the AF400T (which for those that don't know it was the older handle mounted pro flash for LX/645/6x7). Works just fine as far as I can see so far. It was cheaper than a new AF540 and the camera came with a grip! I have used the AF400T on the k10D but the issue was that I wanted it for weddings. I can adjust the flash/camera to take a shot when the time permits between shots but anyone that's shot a wedding knows that you have no time to make adjustments or test shots at weddings. The istD is perfect and the bonus is it's better in low light in the church when a flash isn't allowed. The other nice thing is the camera is basically laid out the same as the K10D. So no having to make a "brain switch" when moving quickly and changing bodies. As for why TTL doesn't work vs P-TTL. Well the main reason is that Pentax and other brands decided to move away from the TTL system. It read off the film plane and the sensor is much more reflective so they felt the results were inconsistant. I can't say for all models (the istD does) but I certain that all the D series cameras had an additional sensor in the mirror bucket that was used for the TTL flash. To save costs they dropped that sensor in the newer K series. There was a good thread discussing some of this here. Just ignore the last idiot (RiceHigh): https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/13886-ttl-p-ttl-flash.html Last edited by Peter Zack; 10-29-2007 at 04:41 PM.*

10-30-2007, 04:49 AM	#8
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	Peer I hope you like the *istD. I have kept mine for just that reason, TTL flash. You will run into a second benefit, should you ever get any K mount lenses. TTL works with those also, where as the K10D and the P-TTL can't work with K mount lenses because there is no lens apature information.

10-30-2007, 07:29 PM	#9
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643 Original Poster	So far so good Lowell. The only K mount I have is the 300 f4 (which is a smokin' lens BTW). Not one I will likely use a flash with very often although that AF400T has a hellava reach. Humm maybe regretting selling the K 28 & 35mm.....

10-31-2007, 06:05 AM	#10
roy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: D/FW area, Tx. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,710	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge Peer I hope you like the *istD. I have kept mine for just that reason, TTL flash. You will run into a second benefit, should you ever get any K mount lenses. TTL works with those also, where as the K10D and the P-TTL can't work with K mount lenses because there is no lens apature information. lowell, i haven't upgraded but the DS will definately be staying in my kit because of the TTL. also works great with M42 lenses..

10-31-2007, 01:06 PM	#11
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	Originally posted by Peter Zack The only K mount I have is the 300 f4 (which is a smokin' lens BTW). Not one I will likely use a flash with very often although that AF400T has a hellava reach. you should rethink the flash with the 300 f4. see my post in the attached thread, with a shot using a 300 f4 plus 1.7x AF TC https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/13369-animal-photography-2.html Used either an AF500FTZ or AF540FGZ I can't remember which and they both work in TTL mode on the *istD

10-31-2007, 02:23 PM	#12
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643 Original Poster	Lowell, Well other than the flash units we have the same setup (although the power is about equal). I'd forgotten that shot and liked it when you first posted it. I'll have to give that combo a try and do some practicing. Looks good!