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12-26-2010, 04:04 PM   #1
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Hot Shoe Flash Umbrella Question

I am looking for a relatively inexpensive Umbrella setup that I can use with a Metz 48 AF-1. I would like something that is convertable so that I can use it as a bounce or a shoot through.

Not sure about size - I was thinking about something in the mid 40" range, but not sure if the 48 has enough juice to utilize an umbrella that big (I occasionally shoot product photos of my custom creations and the occasional portrait of my kids).

Edited - I was going to go wireless, but since I can't do P-TTL with a wireless trigger, I will need an off camera cable kit. Is the Pentax setup the only option for that?

Thanks


Last edited by 5shot; 12-26-2010 at 05:15 PM.
12-27-2010, 03:57 PM   #2
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My only umbrella is a convertible and I won't buy another one. It makes a great shoot-through with the black cover off and a lousy bounce umbrella with the cover on. Every time I try to use it for a bounce I find it eating so much light I take the cover off and go to a shoot-through.

Mine is a 45" and I have no problem using it with my relatively weak flashes (biggest is GN30) for shoot-through. I plan to get a proper bounce umbrella for when I want to bounce. My larger problem is that I use my stuff primarily outdoors and 45" tends to be awkward and unwieldy. I have learned that bigger isn't always better and there is a reason umbrellas also come in smaller sizes.

Can't help you on the triggering and P-TTL. I use radio triggers and set flash output manually. It isn't hard to do, especially if your subject is stationary. It's a case of automation being nice but not necessary.
12-27-2010, 05:56 PM   #3
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Thanks - I will get a silver bounce umbrella and a white shoot through instead of a convertable.

As for a trigger, I might go with a RadioPopper JRx which you can adjust output on the transmitter instead of worrying about P-TTL.
12-27-2010, 06:50 PM   #4
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If you don't need to do close up work with the shoot through, you might want to consider a reflective umbrella softbox. There is very little spill and it has the softness of a shoot through. Here is a DIY article I wrote that shows my reflective umbrella softbox and the DIY bracket I made to hold my flash.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/do-yourself/106596-diy-horizontal-flash-b...ht-stands.html

Tim

12-27-2010, 09:40 PM   #5
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I was going to use the shoot through more for experimentation - this is an example of the kind of shots I do of my work.

12-28-2010, 06:00 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5shot Quote
I was going to use the shoot through more for experimentation - this is an example of the kind of shots I do of my work.
I think you would want a shoot through for that.

Tim
12-28-2010, 06:37 AM   #7
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I'l borrow this thread if its ok

I currently have a 43" reflective Brollybox, like this one:

Im very happy with it and the light is really nice and soft.

However, i sometimes feel i want to get in closer to the subject but the umbrella shaft and stand often gets in the way.

So im thinking of getting a Shoot through Brollybox, like this one


Now.... the only thing that i cant figure out is the size i need. The other one is 43" wich is fine for the use, but the shoot through brolly i want to buy can get really close to the subject. And the shoot through will spread light more around than the reflective one.

Should i stick to the size 43", or can i buy a smaller 33"?

12-28-2010, 03:37 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
I'l borrow this thread if its ok

I currently have a 43" reflective Brollybox, like this one:

Im very happy with it and the light is really nice and soft.

However, i sometimes feel i want to get in closer to the subject but the umbrella shaft and stand often gets in the way.

So im thinking of getting a Shoot through Brollybox, like this one


Now.... the only thing that i cant figure out is the size i need. The other one is 43" wich is fine for the use, but the shoot through brolly i want to buy can get really close to the subject. And the shoot through will spread light more around than the reflective one.

Should i stick to the size 43", or can i buy a smaller 33"?

Your 43" reflective brollybox is the same one I use. If you are shooting table top sized objects, I would think that the smaller 33" size would work fine, as the relative size of the umbrella to the object would be bigger than using your 43" brollybox with a person.

Tim
12-28-2010, 05:40 PM   #9
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With a setup like those, is there any chance that the onboard wireless would work or am I going to have to get a readio trigger?

Also, I assume that the remote flash would have to be positioned in front of the camera for the IR to work - how much latitude is available for positioning? Could I have the umbrella directly to the side of the camera?

Thanks, and you can tell I am totally new to flash photography!
12-29-2010, 02:45 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5shot Quote
With a setup like those, is there any chance that the onboard wireless would work or am I going to have to get a readio trigger?

Also, I assume that the remote flash would have to be positioned in front of the camera for the IR to work - how much latitude is available for positioning? Could I have the umbrella directly to the side of the camera?

Thanks, and you can tell I am totally new to flash photography!
I use Cactus V4's with my umbrellas and camera. Works great.

The thing with wireless is that the flash need to "see" the controll flash from your camera in order to work properly.

So i would recomend radio triggers. I started with Cactus V4's and they work great!
12-29-2010, 02:48 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by atupdate Quote
Your 43" reflective brollybox is the same one I use. If you are shooting table top sized objects, I would think that the smaller 33" size would work fine, as the relative size of the umbrella to the object would be bigger than using your 43" brollybox with a person.

Tim
Thanks!

I was thinking only to use it for portraits, being able to move the umbrella close to the head/shoulders. With the reflective one the shaft and stand often gets in the way.

Thats why i want to buy a "shoot through brolly". Still, will 33" be sufficient or should i be safe and buy the 43"?
12-29-2010, 05:13 AM   #12
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I use cheap triggers pt04 from ebay. Manual flash and manual mode only. Shoot through umbrellas. Tried p-ttl, but never need this option. All my flash units have manual power output.

These triggers are made in china and may be out of production any time and may not backward compatible as more expensive fellows, so I bought several more than I need.

QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
Still, will 33" be sufficient or should i be safe and buy the 43"?
I found out that using multiple umbrellas gives a better light and more flexible than one large.

Also very addicted with more than 2 flash units. Cheap radio triggers and cheap manual flash units (LP160/YN460ii/YN560)

Best regards

Last edited by hoanpham; 12-29-2010 at 05:21 AM.
12-29-2010, 06:07 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
Thanks!

I was thinking only to use it for portraits, being able to move the umbrella close to the head/shoulders. With the reflective one the shaft and stand often gets in the way.

Thats why i want to buy a "shoot through brolly". Still, will 33" be sufficient or should i be safe and buy the 43"?
The way I understand it, the bigger the light source is in comparison to the subject, the softer the shadows. If you are using the shoot through as fill, the smaller one might work. If you are using it as a main light with no other umbrellas, I would buy the bigger one.

Here is a shot I took with a flash behind the subject, the main 43" reflective brolleybox on the right, and a fill (2 stops less light than the main) 43" reflective brollybox on the left (I cloned out the double highlight in the eyes).



Tim
12-29-2010, 01:21 PM   #14
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One last question - when using a flash (Say a Metz 58) for the strobe, would I be better off using a shoot through umbrella or a Brolly Box? Would I be able to get close enough with a Brolly Box to provide decent light? You can get a shoot through umbrell right on top of my subject, but not sure it would be required.
12-29-2010, 02:58 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5shot Quote
One last question - when using a flash (Say a Metz 58) for the strobe, would I be better off using a shoot through umbrella or a Brolly Box? Would I be able to get close enough with a Brolly Box to provide decent light? You can get a shoot through umbrell right on top of my subject, but not sure it would be required.
Shoot through umbrellas loose a lot of light to its surroundings (also known as spill). This site has some great examples comparing the spill of shoot throughs and softboxes --> Umbrella vs. Softbox: a quick comparison | Portrait & Family Photography - Jacob Vorpahl.

Tim

Last edited by atupdate; 12-29-2010 at 04:38 PM.
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