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05-02-2011, 08:15 AM   #16
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Likely, a decision meant to 'encourage' the purchase of Pentax flashes, which support HSS on Pentax cameras.

05-02-2011, 08:31 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by geekette Quote
I imagine I'll do fine without high speed sync. I'm not going to have someone jump in mid air indoors. I just want to be able to do portraits, stills, etc.. Besides doesn't the flash of light itself freeze time despite the shutter speed? (sorry i am so amateur lol)
You're on the right track IMO. I've only done HSS with my Metz twice in the last 4 years, and that was to test the flash. One can still do fill flash indoors or outdoors with these flashes. you meter the background in Tv mode, set those parameters in Manual exposure mode, and set a power setting on the Yongnuo flash for the distance the jumper or foreground object is from you. inverse square rule and all that. (heck, just try something and adjust)

As you suggested, the flash speed often freezes the subject - at full power, the link says that the Yongnuo speed is 1/320s at full power, 1/1300s at 1/2 power, and it just gets faster after that.

There is a poster on PF who's done some very dramatic foreground fill flashes, Rio Rico, in manual i believe - have to confirm that. I did this foreground fill in manual:
(although this subject wasn't jumping as high as the subjects Rio uses )



The second photo is also fill flash IMO, although some called it painting . Heck its all fun. I bought my Yongnuo 560 yesterday with shipping for $68 from a US distributor via Amazon. For that price, i can get 3 flashes for the price of 1 Metz 50 and have change left over. Kicking myself because i didn't buy 2. (these 2 photos done in Manual with Metz flash-don't have the Yongnuo yet)




BTW, Yongnuo won't do preflash TTL for any camera mfr.

Last edited by philbaum; 05-02-2011 at 08:42 AM.
05-02-2011, 09:37 AM   #18
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Does even the K-5 have this high speed sync limitation?
05-02-2011, 09:49 AM   #19
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I'm wondering if you can overcome this high speed sync limitation of the pentax cameras by triggering the shutter with a remote which at the same time fires the flashes.

It's my understanding that the Cactus V5 transceiver can also be used as a remote to trigger the camera's shutter... wondering if it will at the same time trigger all the flashes. If so, you could put the camera in manual mode and set the shutter speed to somethign higher than 1/180s along with all the other exposure settings. The camera would not fire the flashes but the cactus v5 that triggered the camera shutter would

05-02-2011, 02:27 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by geekette Quote
I'm wondering if you can overcome this high speed sync limitation of the pentax cameras by triggering the shutter with a remote which at the same time fires the flashes.
You could fire both flash(es) and camera simultaneously with Cactus V5 triggers but it doesn't address the issue. The flash(es) will have fired long before the camera is ready to take the shot (every camera has a short shutter lag which is super long compared to the response time of a flash).

The sync-speed limitation (and yes the K-5 has it, like any other camera with a focal plane shutter) is created by the fact that with any higher shutter speeds, the shutter is never fully open at any one time but instead moves a slit over the sensor. Flash durations are too short to illuminate the scene all the time while the shutter slit is moving from top to bottom.

EDIT: This explains that a firmware update cannot help. The only way to increase the sync speed (even top end cameras don't go beyond 1/250, which really isn't much more) is to use a faster (but then also typically louder, heavier, and more expensive) shutter assembly.

Some Pentax-dedicated flashes (need not be from Pentax but are designed to be used with Pentax cameras) offer a HSS (high sync speed) mode which allows to go beyond the native shutter sync speed. This works by letting the flash emit a series of pulses, thus (at the expense of power) illuminating the scene all the time while the shutter slit takes it time to travel from top to bottom.

Last edited by Class A; 05-02-2011 at 02:32 PM.
05-02-2011, 04:19 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by geekette Quote
Does even the K-5 have this high speed sync limitation?
The issue some of us are complaining about, myself included, is that the PC sync socket is simply disabled above sync speed, so you can't do things like this:
Hacking HSS on a 7D - Canon Digital Photography Forums

Basically, it is more efficient in power usage than HSS, and doesn't require ND filters.
05-02-2011, 04:44 PM   #22
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I bought 2 of thes Yongnou flashes in the mistaken belief that either mode 1 or 2 would work with Pentax pttl which they turn out not to do, they go off but triggered by the preflash so don't add to the image at all, what I was wondering was if I fit a old pentax pre pttl flash to the camera hot shoe and set the camera to wireless mode + controler mode, would that then allow the yf560 flash to work correctly?

05-02-2011, 05:00 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
...if I fit a old pentax pre pttl flash to the camera hot shoe and set the camera to wireless mode + controler mode, would that then allow the yf560 flash to work correctly?
I'm confused.....

1. I thought the YF-560 can be set to ignore the p-TTL pre-flash strobe.

2. If you "fit a old pentax pre pttl flash to the camera hot shoe," the flash will fire one main strobe (no pre-flash strobe). But how can you "set the camera to wireless mode + controler mode"? A flash can act as a wireless trigger ONLY if it is fully compatible with Pentax cameras, that means the flash supports p-TTL.
05-02-2011, 05:13 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
The issue some of us are complaining about, myself included, is that the PC sync socket is simply disabled above sync speed, so you can't do things like this:
Hacking HSS on a 7D - Canon Digital Photography Forums
The PS sync socket normally fires when the first curtain reaches the bottom of the frame. With any shutter speeds above the sync-speed, this means you'll get black bands in the frame.

The "hack" you refer to above should work with Pentax as well. Simply put an HSS-capable flash on the camera and trigger other slave flashes with it optically. If the slave flashes provide a flash of sufficient duration, you won't get banding. However, the utility of this decreases with increasing shutter speed since the smaller the shutter slit gets, the less light from the flash hits the sensor.
05-02-2011, 05:14 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by SOldBear Quote
I'm confused.....

1. I thought the YF-560 can be set to ignore the p-TTL pre-flash strobe..
yes so did I but it seems not,no matter if I use S1 or S2 the flash go ff but if you look at the image taken with and without its the same which is why I think the preflash is triggering it.

QuoteQuote:
2. If you "fit a old pentax pre pttl flash to the camera hot shoe," the flash will fire one main strobe (no pre-flash strobe). But how can you "set the camera to wireless mode + controler mode"? A flash can act as a wireless trigger ONLY if it is fully compatible with Pentax cameras, that means the flash supports p-TTL.
Sorry I did not word that to well, what I also tried was using the camera pop up flash set to wireless mode, and in that mode you have as I'm sure you know a choice of it being the master or just a controler with a small out put. If i set the camera to controler and take picture the flash is very weak which is to be expected, if I turn on the 560 in either s1 or s2 it flashes but does not add to the lighting as again the preflash has triggered it I guess. so if I use a a older flash that which I gather does not preflash on the hot shoe I assume the 560 will work ok????
05-02-2011, 05:17 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
... what I was wondering was if I fit a old pentax pre pttl flash to the camera hot shoe and set the camera to wireless mode + controler mode, would that then allow the yf560 flash to work correctly?
Should work (even without fiddling with wireless modes). I understand fitting an "A" lens also causes the pre-flash of the built-in flash to be suppressed.

Have you considered using radio triggers, such as the Cactus V5? Radio triggers are more reliable and flexible then optical "wireless" triggering.
05-02-2011, 07:00 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The PS sync socket normally fires when the first curtain reaches the bottom of the frame. This is not true if the flash duration is longer than the sync speed, approximately, which is the whole point of the exercise. edit: ok, i'm glad you clarified later.

The "hack" you refer to above should work with Pentax as well. Simply put an HSS-capable flash on the camera and trigger other slave flashes with it optically. If the slave flashes provide a flash of sufficient duration, you won't get banding. However, the utility of this decreases with increasing shutter speed since the smaller the shutter slit gets, the less light from the flash hits the sensor.
No, as I stated, it does not work. I tried it before and I just did it now to reconfirm it on the K-5. Pentax disables the PC sync socket above 1/180. And of course, the hotshoe isn't fired unless there is a P-TTL flash in there, so you can't use a radio trigger either, which would've been even better.

The utility in this, as stated, is that it is more efficient than HSS. You can do fill in bright light further away. It is almost the same as using ND filters, but you don't have use an ND filter of course.

And of course, a faster sync speed is even more efficient because it will affect ambient light independent of flash light..

Last edited by Eruditass; 05-02-2011 at 07:16 PM.
05-02-2011, 07:02 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by geekette Quote
Hello Pentax Corp., time for a firmware update?
As far as I know, it's not as simple as just a firmware fix; I think the limitation also has to do with the actual shutter hardware. I think what happens when you choose a shutter speed faster than 1/180th on a Pentax camera is that the trailing shutter curtain already starts it's movement.

QuoteOriginally posted by geekette Quote
Does even the K-5 have this high speed sync limitation?
Yes, max sync speed of the K-5 is 1/180th.

QuoteOriginally posted by geekette Quote
I'm wondering if you can overcome this high speed sync limitation of the pentax cameras by triggering the shutter with a remote which at the same time fires the flashes.....
Not trying to be an pessimist, but the answer is probably not. And even if you could, see my first reply above; you'll catch the trailing shutter curtain in the frame. If you have a look at the link I provided earlier in the thread, it should clear up how shutter/flash synchronisation works. If you prefer a visual explanation, I find the following clip does a really good job:

QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
I bought 2 of thes Yongnou flashes in the mistaken belief that either mode 1 or 2 would work with Pentax pttl which they turn out not to do, they go off but triggered by the preflash so don't add to the image at all, what I was wondering was if I fit a old pentax pre pttl flash to the camera hot shoe and set the camera to wireless mode + controler mode, would that then allow the yf560 flash to work correctly?
I was going to suggest setting the YN560s to S1 or S2, but you seem to have tried that already without success. Try setting the in-camera flash to just normal flash on mode, instead of wireless?
05-03-2011, 01:19 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
I bought 2 of thes Yongnou flashes in the mistaken belief that either mode 1 or 2 would work with Pentax pttl which they turn out not to do, they go off but triggered by the preflash so don't add to the image at all, what I was wondering was if I fit a old pentax pre pttl flash to the camera hot shoe and set the camera to wireless mode + controler mode, would that then allow the yf560 flash to work correctly?
S2 has worked for me with the K-x's built-in as the master. One YN560 (or another manual/non-pttl flash) in the hot shoe and the other in S1 should work as well. The cheap PT-04 triggers have been much nicer though; they are reliable and the transmitter adds practically no bulk/weight to the camera, also one can change from landscape to portrait orientation without manipulating the flash head to bounce from a suitable surface.
05-03-2011, 01:45 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
No, as I stated, it does not work.
Please read carefully what I wrote (using an optical trigger for the slave flash(es)). It will work. Note that Jolepp writes the same.

QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
Pentax disables the PC sync socket above 1/180.
Sure, but that's not a problem if you use an optical trigger. You may also connect an optical trigger to a radio trigger and thus trigger remote flashes via radio. But you need an HSS-capable flash on the camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
And of course, the hotshoe isn't fired unless there is a P-TTL flash in there, so you can't use a radio trigger either, which would've been even better.
The hotshoe fires independently of the presence of a P-TTL flash, as long as the shutter speed doesn't exceed the sync speed. If it does, then you have to use an HSS flash that then can trigger your flashes or radio transmitter.
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