Vivitar 283 vs. YN-560

geekette · 05-02-2011, 10:03 AM

I already have a Vivitar 283 that seems to work fine (got it recently in a bundle). I know it has a longer recharge time, a lesser GN (34 or so), no swivel, and no zoom (however that works). But would it be enough for most things? Could I take some very nice portraits with it using it with bounce, umbrella, softbox and beauty dish? Since it doesn't have zoom, does this mean I need to move the flash closer or further away from the subject, or can I control this somewhat with the output?

Just wondering if I should get a couple more 283's for $10 or so a piece and experiment with off camera flash photography with them--putting them all in manual mode.

Is swivel really necessary.. can't you just swivel the softbox/beauty dish stand, or the umbrella/flash clamp?

I am guessing the GN is good enough for indoor stuff I dunno. I have no idea how many stops of light my DIY beauty dish cuts out.

Maybe 11 second recharges would get old fast . I don't know how reliable & consistent the 283's are. Also I notice the plastic flash screen is a bit yellow.. don't know if this is from age.

If the YN-560 will open up my options a great deal and/or allow me to learn flash photography more quickly, I guess I'll fork out the $68 each for them; I'd buy at least 2, probably 3.

jstevewhite · 05-02-2011, 10:20 AM

Are you talking about the "new" vivitar 283 with P-TTL? The reason I ask is that the OLD vivitar 283 (of which I have more than one) has a rated GN of 120, which is a little optimistic, but 100 is very reasonable (@100ISO, in feet). This is a fairly powerful flash for a shoe-mount. (the PTX 540 is ~178 GN)

But yes, the old 283 works very well in umbrellas and for strobist-type lighting.

geekette · 05-02-2011, 10:44 AM

WOW GN of 100?! Yeah I have a very old 283. Damn.. no wonder why it was so hard on my eyes.. think I killed a few retina!

DaveHolmes · 05-02-2011, 11:13 AM

I have a yn560 as you know and think it's fabulous...

I have a Viv 285hv on route from the state as we speak... Should be here in a week or so (I hope) and will let you know what I think at that time...

:-)

SOldBear · 05-02-2011, 11:23 AM

In terms of raw power, the Vivitar 283 is about powerful as the 285 or 285HV. It is very reliable.

But just like the 285, its head can bounce but no swivel. The 283 does not power ratio settings (285 can do full, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/16) unless you can find the Vari-Sensor module, which is quite rare.

Also, beware of high trigger voltage. I had copies with 180V and copies with 7.5V. The only sure way is to measure the particular unit.

Coeurdechene · 05-02-2011, 11:58 AM

Or to always put it on top of something like the V5.
And the zoom on the flashes has to do with the spread of the beam...it is used to cover the actual angle of view of a particular focal lenght. Some have motorized zoom and some are manual.
You can look at different zoom settings from the same distance and you'll notice how the beam has different width on the surface where you point it at different zoom positions.

jstevewhite · 05-02-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by SOldBear

In terms of raw power, the Vivitar 283 is about powerful as the 285 or 285HV. It is very reliable.

But just like the 285, its head can bounce but no swivel. The 283 does not power ratio settings (285 can do full, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/16) unless you can find the Vari-Sensor module, which is quite rare.

Also, beware of high trigger voltage. I had copies with 180V and copies with 7.5V. The only sure way is to measure the particular unit.

There are several online sites that describe how to build your own 'VP-1' that gives you constantly variable power from the 283/285 units. Great stuff.

DaveHolmes · 05-02-2011, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by SOldBear

Also, beware of high trigger voltage. I had copies with 180V and copies with 7.5V.

Plan of using mine (not arrived yet) on cactus V4... Will it fry the V4? Should I use the sync cable and velcro approach rather thar the V4's hotshoe?

Originally posted by SOldBear

(285 can do full, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/16)

With ND gels more control can also be gained too... :-)

jstevewhite · 05-02-2011, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by DaveHolmes

Plan of using mine (not arrived yet) on cactus V4... Will it fry the V4? Should I use the sync cable and velcro approach rather thar the V4's hotshoe?

With ND gels more control can also be gained too... :-)

I think you can pull the sensor off the 285, as well; if so, you can make your own VP-1 and have "infinite" variability (well, analog, anyway; no detents).

geekette · 05-03-2011, 07:35 PM

Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory in a $25 bundle today (made out well on it as I got around $200 in stuff for $25). It is an optical slave accessory for the Vivitar 283 or any flash really. I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off! I set the lighting to low on the SL-2 and it picked up the flash from the camera, facing away from each other. So I am just going to buy one YN-560 and use optical slave on it as well. Maybe I won't need radio transceivers yet.

adpo · 05-03-2011, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by geekette

Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory in a $25 bundle today (made out well on it as I got around $200 in stuff for $25). It is an optical slave accessory for the Vivitar 283 or any flash really. I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off! I set the lighting to low on the SL-2 and it picked up the flash from the camera, facing away from each other. So I am just going to buy one YN-560 and use optical slave on it as well. Maybe I won't need radio transceivers yet.

the YN560 has a built in optical reciever, so that would be a bit redundant

jstevewhite · 05-03-2011, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by geekette

Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory in a $25 bundle today (made out well on it as I got around $200 in stuff for $25). It is an optical slave accessory for the Vivitar 283 or any flash really. I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off! I set the lighting to low on the SL-2 and it picked up the flash from the camera, facing away from each other. So I am just going to buy one YN-560 and use optical slave on it as well. Maybe I won't need radio transceivers yet.

I used optical slaves exclusively in my studio back in the 80s and early 90s. I had a PC connection to one light, the rest were pure optical. I experimented with a small flash on-camera with an IR filter over it, and that worked very well, except the little flash took forever to charge

geekette · 05-04-2011, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by adpo

the YN560 has a built in optical reciever, so that would be a bit redundant

How is it redundant? I am going to use the Vivitar SL-2 on the Vivitar 283 to have it triggered as an optical slave, just the like the YN-560 will be triggered with its built in optical slave feature.

geekette · 05-04-2011, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

I used optical slaves exclusively in my studio back in the 80s and early 90s. I had a PC connection to one light, the rest were pure optical. I experimented with a small flash on-camera with an IR filter over it, and that worked very well, except the little flash took forever to charge

So very cool! And here I was thinking that optical slave was something new :P With what I am going to be shooting, I am sure I can just use all optical triggering--doubt I'll need the Cactus V5. I do need to buy an IR filter for my k-x pop up tho.

SOldBear · 05-04-2011, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by geekette

Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory.... I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off!.

Was the pop-up flash in p-TTL mode? It should be unless the lens you were using was manual (or the aperture ring of the lens was not at A). In this case, the pop-up flash would fire 1 strobe at full power.

If the pop-up flash was in p-TTL mode, the remote Vivitar 283 fired with the pre-flash strobe, which was before actual exposure. Depending on the power setting, the remote flash might re-charge fast enough and fire again with the main strobe of the pop-up flash.

To verify this, repeat the same test, but this time set the camera in 2 sec. delay mode. You will see the pre-flash strobe and the main strobe of the pop-up flash 2 seconds apart.

And/or take a photo in front of a mirror, with the camera and the remote flash visible in the mirror.

If you plan to use the pop-up flash to trigger remote flashes optically, either you need to somehow suppress the pre-flash strobe, or the optical slaves have to have the ability to ignore the pre-flash strobe (unless the remote flashes support p-TTL remote, which does not apply here).

05-02-2011, 10:03 AM	#1
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528	Vivitar 283 vs. YN-560 I already have a Vivitar 283 that seems to work fine (got it recently in a bundle). I know it has a longer recharge time, a lesser GN (34 or so), no swivel, and no zoom (however that works). But would it be enough for most things? Could I take some very nice portraits with it using it with bounce, umbrella, softbox and beauty dish? Since it doesn't have zoom, does this mean I need to move the flash closer or further away from the subject, or can I control this somewhat with the output? Just wondering if I should get a couple more 283's for $10 or so a piece and experiment with off camera flash photography with them--putting them all in manual mode. Is swivel really necessary.. can't you just swivel the softbox/beauty dish stand, or the umbrella/flash clamp? I am guessing the GN is good enough for indoor stuff I dunno. I have no idea how many stops of light my DIY beauty dish cuts out. Maybe 11 second recharges would get old fast . I don't know how reliable & consistent the 283's are. Also I notice the plastic flash screen is a bit yellow.. don't know if this is from age. If the YN-560 will open up my options a great deal and/or allow me to learn flash photography more quickly, I guess I'll fork out the $68 each for them; I'd buy at least 2, probably 3.

05-04-2011, 12:36 AM	#15
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by geekette Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory.... I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off!. Was the pop-up flash in p-TTL mode? It should be unless the lens you were using was manual (or the aperture ring of the lens was not at A). In this case, the pop-up flash would fire 1 strobe at full power. If the pop-up flash was in p-TTL mode, the remote Vivitar 283 fired with the pre-flash strobe, which was before actual exposure. Depending on the power setting, the remote flash might re-charge fast enough and fire again with the main strobe of the pop-up flash. To verify this, repeat the same test, but this time set the camera in 2 sec. delay mode. You will see the pre-flash strobe and the main strobe of the pop-up flash 2 seconds apart. And/or take a photo in front of a mirror, with the camera and the remote flash visible in the mirror. If you plan to use the pop-up flash to trigger remote flashes optically, either you need to somehow suppress the pre-flash strobe, or the optical slaves have to have the ability to ignore the pre-flash strobe (unless the remote flashes support p-TTL remote, which does not apply here). Last edited by SOldBear; 05-04-2011 at 12:44 AM.

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05-02-2011, 10:20 AM	#2
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Are you talking about the "new" vivitar 283 with P-TTL? The reason I ask is that the OLD vivitar 283 (of which I have more than one) has a rated GN of 120, which is a little optimistic, but 100 is very reasonable (@100ISO, in feet). This is a fairly powerful flash for a shoe-mount. (the PTX 540 is ~178 GN) But yes, the old 283 works very well in umbrellas and for strobist-type lighting.

05-02-2011, 10:44 AM	#3
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	WOW GN of 100?! Yeah I have a very old 283. Damn.. no wonder why it was so hard on my eyes.. think I killed a few retina!

05-02-2011, 11:13 AM	#4
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501	I have a yn560 as you know and think it's fabulous... I have a Viv 285hv on route from the state as we speak... Should be here in a week or so (I hope) and will let you know what I think at that time... :-)

05-02-2011, 11:23 AM	#5
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	In terms of raw power, the Vivitar 283 is about powerful as the 285 or 285HV. It is very reliable. But just like the 285, its head can bounce but no swivel. The 283 does not power ratio settings (285 can do full, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/16) unless you can find the Vari-Sensor module, which is quite rare. Also, beware of high trigger voltage. I had copies with 180V and copies with 7.5V. The only sure way is to measure the particular unit.

05-02-2011, 11:58 AM	#6
Coeurdechene Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: madrid Photos: Albums Posts: 833	Or to always put it on top of something like the V5. And the zoom on the flashes has to do with the spread of the beam...it is used to cover the actual angle of view of a particular focal lenght. Some have motorized zoom and some are manual. You can look at different zoom settings from the same distance and you'll notice how the beam has different width on the surface where you point it at different zoom positions.

05-02-2011, 12:19 PM	#7
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by SOldBear In terms of raw power, the Vivitar 283 is about powerful as the 285 or 285HV. It is very reliable. But just like the 285, its head can bounce but no swivel. The 283 does not power ratio settings (285 can do full, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/16) unless you can find the Vari-Sensor module, which is quite rare. Also, beware of high trigger voltage. I had copies with 180V and copies with 7.5V. The only sure way is to measure the particular unit. There are several online sites that describe how to build your own 'VP-1' that gives you constantly variable power from the 283/285 units. Great stuff.

05-02-2011, 04:20 PM	#8
DaveHolmes Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,501	Originally posted by SOldBear Also, beware of high trigger voltage. I had copies with 180V and copies with 7.5V. Plan of using mine (not arrived yet) on cactus V4... Will it fry the V4? Should I use the sync cable and velcro approach rather thar the V4's hotshoe? Originally posted by SOldBear (285 can do full, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/16) With ND gels more control can also be gained too... :-)

05-02-2011, 09:42 PM	#9
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by DaveHolmes Plan of using mine (not arrived yet) on cactus V4... Will it fry the V4? Should I use the sync cable and velcro approach rather thar the V4's hotshoe? With ND gels more control can also be gained too... :-) I think you can pull the sensor off the 285, as well; if so, you can make your own VP-1 and have "infinite" variability (well, analog, anyway; no detents).

05-03-2011, 07:35 PM	#10
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory in a $25 bundle today (made out well on it as I got around $200 in stuff for $25). It is an optical slave accessory for the Vivitar 283 or any flash really. I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off! I set the lighting to low on the SL-2 and it picked up the flash from the camera, facing away from each other. So I am just going to buy one YN-560 and use optical slave on it as well. Maybe I won't need radio transceivers yet.

05-03-2011, 10:13 PM	#11
adpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 888	Originally posted by geekette Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory in a $25 bundle today (made out well on it as I got around $200 in stuff for $25). It is an optical slave accessory for the Vivitar 283 or any flash really. I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off! I set the lighting to low on the SL-2 and it picked up the flash from the camera, facing away from each other. So I am just going to buy one YN-560 and use optical slave on it as well. Maybe I won't need radio transceivers yet. the YN560 has a built in optical reciever, so that would be a bit redundant

05-03-2011, 10:28 PM	#12
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by geekette Interestingly, I got a Vivitar SL-2 accessory in a $25 bundle today (made out well on it as I got around $200 in stuff for $25). It is an optical slave accessory for the Vivitar 283 or any flash really. I put it on my Vivitar 283, snapped a pic with my pop up flash and the vivitar flash went off! I set the lighting to low on the SL-2 and it picked up the flash from the camera, facing away from each other. So I am just going to buy one YN-560 and use optical slave on it as well. Maybe I won't need radio transceivers yet. I used optical slaves exclusively in my studio back in the 80s and early 90s. I had a PC connection to one light, the rest were pure optical. I experimented with a small flash on-camera with an IR filter over it, and that worked very well, except the little flash took forever to charge

05-04-2011, 12:10 AM	#13
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Originally posted by adpo the YN560 has a built in optical reciever, so that would be a bit redundant How is it redundant? I am going to use the Vivitar SL-2 on the Vivitar 283 to have it triggered as an optical slave, just the like the YN-560 will be triggered with its built in optical slave feature.

05-04-2011, 12:13 AM	#14
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Originally posted by jstevewhite I used optical slaves exclusively in my studio back in the 80s and early 90s. I had a PC connection to one light, the rest were pure optical. I experimented with a small flash on-camera with an IR filter over it, and that worked very well, except the little flash took forever to charge So very cool! And here I was thinking that optical slave was something new :P With what I am going to be shooting, I am sure I can just use all optical triggering--doubt I'll need the Cactus V5. I do need to buy an IR filter for my k-x pop up tho.