Recommendation for Umbrella Kit please

geekette · 05-18-2011, 11:49 AM

Does an umbrella like the following exist? (If not, I should make one using a shoot through umbrella as a starting point.) :

1. Base umbrella being a shoot through.
2. Has a dome cover which is black on the outside and solid bright white (or silver?) on the inside, to place over the convex side (top) of the umbrella.
3. Has a white--shoot through type fabric--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for post to go through and for flash to point in.
4. Has a black, with white on the inside--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for the post to go through and the flash to point in.

It seems like all these umbrella fabric accessories would be useful:
1. The umbrella can be used as a standard shoot through umbrella.
2. It can be used as a standard reflective umbrella (with the black dome cover on).
3. It would allow the umbrella to function as a pseudo softbox--with the black dome cover on and the white flat fitted cover on the bottom.
4. You could use the umbrella as a shoot through with added bonus of control of light leakage using the black fitted bottom cover.

I can sew all this stuff using a shoot through umbrella as a base i guess. Using velcro for the top cover and elastic fitted for the bottom. Would be pretty easy.

If I had a couple of these, say in 45" size, would it pretty much eliminate my need for other umbrellas or softboxes? I am assuming I can use gels on the flash in lieu of gold reflective umbrellas. I don't know about silver; do I need this or what can I do besides add another layer of velcro-able fabric?

Last edited by geekette; 05-18-2011 at 12:06 PM.

alohadave · 05-18-2011, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by geekette

Does an umbrella like the following exist? (If not, I should make one using a shoot through umbrella as a starting point.) :

1. Base umbrella being a shoot through.
2. Has a dome cover which is black on the outside and solid bright white (or silver?) on the inside, to place over the convex side (top) of the umbrella.
3. Has a white--shoot through type fabric--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for post to go through and for flash to point in.
4. Has a black, with white on the inside--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for the post to go through and the flash to point in.

It seems like all these umbrella fabric accessories would be useful:
1. The umbrella can be used as a standard shoot through umbrella.
2. It can be used as a standard reflective umbrella (with the black dome cover on).
3. It would allow the umbrella to function as a pseudo softbox--with the black dome cover on and the white flat fitted cover on the bottom.
4. You could use the umbrella as a shoot through with added bonus of control of light leakage using the black fitted bottom cover.

I can sew all this stuff using a shoot through umbrella as a base i guess. Using velcro for the top cover and elastic fitted for the bottom. Would be pretty easy.

If I had a couple of these, say in 45" size, would it pretty much eliminate my need for other umbrellas or softboxes? I am assuming I can use gels on the flash in lieu of gold reflective umbrellas. I don't know about silver; do I need this or what can I do besides add another layer of velcro-able fabric?

Lastolite 8-in-1 Umbrella (40") LL LU4538 B&H Photo Video

atupdate · 05-19-2011, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by geekette

Does an umbrella like the following exist? (If not, I should make one using a shoot through umbrella as a starting point.) :

1. Base umbrella being a shoot through.
2. Has a dome cover which is black on the outside and solid bright white (or silver?) on the inside, to place over the convex side (top) of the umbrella.
3. Has a white--shoot through type fabric--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for post to go through and for flash to point in.
4. Has a black, with white on the inside--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for the post to go through and the flash to point in.

It seems like all these umbrella fabric accessories would be useful:
1. The umbrella can be used as a standard shoot through umbrella.
2. It can be used as a standard reflective umbrella (with the black dome cover on).
3. It would allow the umbrella to function as a pseudo softbox--with the black dome cover on and the white flat fitted cover on the bottom.
4. You could use the umbrella as a shoot through with added bonus of control of light leakage using the black fitted bottom cover.

I can sew all this stuff using a shoot through umbrella as a base i guess. Using velcro for the top cover and elastic fitted for the bottom. Would be pretty easy.

If I had a couple of these, say in 45" size, would it pretty much eliminate my need for other umbrellas or softboxes? I am assuming I can use gels on the flash in lieu of gold reflective umbrellas. I don't know about silver; do I need this or what can I do besides add another layer of velcro-able fabric?

See my first post in this thread. The black cover is not removable but the light loss is significantly less than a shoot through.

Tim

geekette · 05-19-2011, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by atupdate

See my first post in this thread. The black cover is not removable but the light loss is significantly less than a shoot through.

Tim

Tim, thanks again

And thanks for your help earlier. In fact I ordered those light stands you mentioned early last week and received them. They seem pretty sturdy and are affordable. One stand's upper spring wasn't very responsive and I asked them about it.. they said not to worry they'd send me out a new light stand and I could keep the other one. So I got three stable light stands for $40 (or so, I forget exactly how much but I used the link you gave me). I bet they won't tip over in the wind they seem to have a nice weight--but I can always take a sack full of sand or whatever and attached it to the base to weight it down if needed.

I also like how you made that bracket for the flash, to hold it sideways-- that makes a lot of sense. I'm going to make myself a couple of those--thank you.

I have also put a lot of thought into purchasing those umbrellas you mentioned and I might just end up buying them. However, I've been thinking about ways to improve on them so they do more things. I'd like two umbrellas that do it all

atupdate · 05-19-2011, 07:08 AM

Here is a blog that finally convinced me to buy the softbox umbrellas I have. The light loss associated with shoot throughs is huge. I find that I can shoot at less than 1/2 power on my flash using the softbox umbrellas when they are ~5ft away from subject (3/4 body or head shots). This great reduces cycle time and increases battery life.

Umbrella vs. Softbox: a quick comparison | Portrait & Family Photography - Jacob Vorpahl

The primary benefit associated with shoot throughs that I found during my research is that you could place them closer to the subject for table top shooting. If you Google Umbrella vs. Softbox or Comparing Umbrella Softbox, you will find some great pro vs con discussions.

Good luck with your decision

Tim

PS: Glad you like the light stands.

geekette · 05-19-2011, 07:54 AM

Tim, I definitely want what you have, a black backed umbrella with flat white bottom cover. But I'd also like the inverse: black bottom & white tops for shoot through. Or sometimes I might want the contrasty light of reflective umbrella. Seems like I can just buy two shoot through umbrellas and make some fitted removable bottom covers and dome covers that will let the umbrella do anything (including what you have)--as I mentioned above in detail.

Thanks again!

I am going to make those DIY brackets of your's soon too

geekette · 05-19-2011, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by alohadave

Lastolite 8-in-1 Umbrella (40") LL LU4538 B&H Photo Video

That is a really nice umbrella! I want two of them! Too bad they are sooo expensive. I can make the same for around $35 I am guessing. But it is a bit of sewing.

geekette · 05-19-2011, 09:06 AM

Tim, what do you think about this idea? : Make (or buy) a fitted square cover for your two softbox type umbrellas. It would mask the flat bottom cover into a square. This would allow you to have a straight line to feather the light--like one can with an actual softbox.

Here is the idea, the hatched mark areas being solid black--nevermind my photoshop skills! lol.

Or I guess you could just drap a piece of black material over a portion of the umbrella as needed for that line?

Btw, does your umbrella set, the way you use it now, have soft light like a softbox? how do yoru umbrellas compare to an actually softbox? (Going to read that article you linked me comparing the two now.)

MPrince · 05-19-2011, 09:37 AM

I have this kit from B&H: Impact Digital Flash Umbrella Mount Kit B&H Photo Video. It has served me well for a few years now.

atupdate · 05-19-2011, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by geekette

Tim, what do you think about this idea?

I think you would loose a lot of your light via bouncing back into the umbrella. If you want the rectangular shape, you should buy/make a standard softbox.

Originally posted by geekette

does your umbrella set, the way you use it now, have soft light like a softbox? how do yoru umbrellas compare to an actually softbox? (Going to read that article you linked me comparing the two now.)

I think they are close enough for my needs but I have never used a real softbox. With that statement up front, here is my opinion on the subject based on reading many websites. If the white material on my umbrella is similar to the material in a softbox, then the quality of light should be the same when using the same light source. The softness of the light is dependent upon the size of the light source (umbrella or softbox) and how close it is to the subject (the bigger and closer - the softer).

Where the differences occur should be in the quantity of the light (how much reaches the subject vs. spilling into other areas of the room, the amount of spread/directional control of where the light goes, and the shape of the highlights. I like the umbrella highlights better than a square/rectangle softbox. I also think that the reflective softbox umbrella produces less spill than a standard reflective umbrella or a shoot through umbrella. I would expect a softbox would produce slightly less spill.

Now the real questions to ask yourself before you purchase/make is what features do you really want/need and how much do you have to spend to get them.

Tim

PS: My umbrellas have a reflective silver lining on the inside and is not just a black cover over a white umbrella.

jstevewhite · 05-19-2011, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by atupdate

Where the differences occur should be in the quantity of the light (how much reaches the subject vs. spilling into other areas of the room, the amount of spread/directional control of where the light goes, and the shape of the highlights. I like the umbrella highlights better than a square/rectangle softbox. I also think that the reflective softbox umbrella produces less spill than a standard reflective umbrella or a shoot through umbrella. I would expect a softbox would produce slightly less spill.

The highlights are really it. If you're looking for that slick magazine advertisement look, the rectangular highlights (originally designed to model north window light) is the way to go. I think it depends on the image; I've seen both that looked very nice.

geekette · 06-10-2011, 01:01 AM

Received my two 43" shoot through umbrellas today via UPS--got my 2 x manfroto 026 & 2 x stroboframe today as well. This is the first time I ever used an umbrella and I set it up to shoot through. Took a shot of me at Rembrandt angle, up close and it's like MAGIC! Never seen such beautiful light! It really makes a person look really good

Now I am going to have a lot of fun with portraits!

05-19-2011, 09:06 AM	#23
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Tim, what do you think about this idea? : Make (or buy) a fitted square cover for your two softbox type umbrellas. It would mask the flat bottom cover into a square. This would allow you to have a straight line to feather the light--like one can with an actual softbox. Here is the idea, the hatched mark areas being solid black--nevermind my photoshop skills! lol. Or I guess you could just drap a piece of black material over a portion of the umbrella as needed for that line? Btw, does your umbrella set, the way you use it now, have soft light like a softbox? how do yoru umbrellas compare to an actually softbox? (Going to read that article you linked me comparing the two now.) Attached Images

05-19-2011, 12:03 PM	#25
atupdate Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,723	Originally posted by geekette Tim, what do you think about this idea? I think you would loose a lot of your light via bouncing back into the umbrella. If you want the rectangular shape, you should buy/make a standard softbox. Originally posted by geekette does your umbrella set, the way you use it now, have soft light like a softbox? how do yoru umbrellas compare to an actually softbox? (Going to read that article you linked me comparing the two now.) I think they are close enough for my needs but I have never used a real softbox. With that statement up front, here is my opinion on the subject based on reading many websites. If the white material on my umbrella is similar to the material in a softbox, then the quality of light should be the same when using the same light source. The softness of the light is dependent upon the size of the light source (umbrella or softbox) and how close it is to the subject (the bigger and closer - the softer). Where the differences occur should be in the quantity of the light (how much reaches the subject vs. spilling into other areas of the room, the amount of spread/directional control of where the light goes, and the shape of the highlights. I like the umbrella highlights better than a square/rectangle softbox. I also think that the reflective softbox umbrella produces less spill than a standard reflective umbrella or a shoot through umbrella. I would expect a softbox would produce slightly less spill. Now the real questions to ask yourself before you purchase/make is what features do you really want/need and how much do you have to spend to get them. Tim PS: My umbrellas have a reflective silver lining on the inside and is not just a black cover over a white umbrella. Last edited by atupdate; 05-19-2011 at 01:23 PM.

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05-18-2011, 11:49 AM	#16
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Does an umbrella like the following exist? (If not, I should make one using a shoot through umbrella as a starting point.) : 1. Base umbrella being a shoot through. 2. Has a dome cover which is black on the outside and solid bright white (or silver?) on the inside, to place over the convex side (top) of the umbrella. 3. Has a white--shoot through type fabric--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for post to go through and for flash to point in. 4. Has a black, with white on the inside--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for the post to go through and the flash to point in. It seems like all these umbrella fabric accessories would be useful: 1. The umbrella can be used as a standard shoot through umbrella. 2. It can be used as a standard reflective umbrella (with the black dome cover on). 3. It would allow the umbrella to function as a pseudo softbox--with the black dome cover on and the white flat fitted cover on the bottom. 4. You could use the umbrella as a shoot through with added bonus of control of light leakage using the black fitted bottom cover. I can sew all this stuff using a shoot through umbrella as a base i guess. Using velcro for the top cover and elastic fitted for the bottom. Would be pretty easy. If I had a couple of these, say in 45" size, would it pretty much eliminate my need for other umbrellas or softboxes? I am assuming I can use gels on the flash in lieu of gold reflective umbrellas. I don't know about silver; do I need this or what can I do besides add another layer of velcro-able fabric? Last edited by geekette; 05-18-2011 at 12:06 PM.

05-18-2011, 03:27 PM	#17
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by geekette Does an umbrella like the following exist? (If not, I should make one using a shoot through umbrella as a starting point.) : 1. Base umbrella being a shoot through. 2. Has a dome cover which is black on the outside and solid bright white (or silver?) on the inside, to place over the convex side (top) of the umbrella. 3. Has a white--shoot through type fabric--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for post to go through and for flash to point in. 4. Has a black, with white on the inside--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for the post to go through and the flash to point in. It seems like all these umbrella fabric accessories would be useful: 1. The umbrella can be used as a standard shoot through umbrella. 2. It can be used as a standard reflective umbrella (with the black dome cover on). 3. It would allow the umbrella to function as a pseudo softbox--with the black dome cover on and the white flat fitted cover on the bottom. 4. You could use the umbrella as a shoot through with added bonus of control of light leakage using the black fitted bottom cover. I can sew all this stuff using a shoot through umbrella as a base i guess. Using velcro for the top cover and elastic fitted for the bottom. Would be pretty easy. If I had a couple of these, say in 45" size, would it pretty much eliminate my need for other umbrellas or softboxes? I am assuming I can use gels on the flash in lieu of gold reflective umbrellas. I don't know about silver; do I need this or what can I do besides add another layer of velcro-able fabric? Lastolite 8-in-1 Umbrella (40") LL LU4538 B&H Photo Video

05-19-2011, 05:31 AM	#18
atupdate Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,723	Originally posted by geekette Does an umbrella like the following exist? (If not, I should make one using a shoot through umbrella as a starting point.) : 1. Base umbrella being a shoot through. 2. Has a dome cover which is black on the outside and solid bright white (or silver?) on the inside, to place over the convex side (top) of the umbrella. 3. Has a white--shoot through type fabric--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for post to go through and for flash to point in. 4. Has a black, with white on the inside--fitted bottom cover with a hole in it for the post to go through and the flash to point in. It seems like all these umbrella fabric accessories would be useful: 1. The umbrella can be used as a standard shoot through umbrella. 2. It can be used as a standard reflective umbrella (with the black dome cover on). 3. It would allow the umbrella to function as a pseudo softbox--with the black dome cover on and the white flat fitted cover on the bottom. 4. You could use the umbrella as a shoot through with added bonus of control of light leakage using the black fitted bottom cover. I can sew all this stuff using a shoot through umbrella as a base i guess. Using velcro for the top cover and elastic fitted for the bottom. Would be pretty easy. If I had a couple of these, say in 45" size, would it pretty much eliminate my need for other umbrellas or softboxes? I am assuming I can use gels on the flash in lieu of gold reflective umbrellas. I don't know about silver; do I need this or what can I do besides add another layer of velcro-able fabric? See my first post in this thread. The black cover is not removable but the light loss is significantly less than a shoot through. Tim

05-19-2011, 05:45 AM	#19
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Originally posted by atupdate See my first post in this thread. The black cover is not removable but the light loss is significantly less than a shoot through. Tim Tim, thanks again And thanks for your help earlier. In fact I ordered those light stands you mentioned early last week and received them. They seem pretty sturdy and are affordable. One stand's upper spring wasn't very responsive and I asked them about it.. they said not to worry they'd send me out a new light stand and I could keep the other one. So I got three stable light stands for $40 (or so, I forget exactly how much but I used the link you gave me). I bet they won't tip over in the wind they seem to have a nice weight--but I can always take a sack full of sand or whatever and attached it to the base to weight it down if needed. I also like how you made that bracket for the flash, to hold it sideways-- that makes a lot of sense. I'm going to make myself a couple of those--thank you. I have also put a lot of thought into purchasing those umbrellas you mentioned and I might just end up buying them. However, I've been thinking about ways to improve on them so they do more things. I'd like two umbrellas that do it all

05-19-2011, 07:08 AM	#20
atupdate Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dayton, OH Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,723	Here is a blog that finally convinced me to buy the softbox umbrellas I have. The light loss associated with shoot throughs is huge. I find that I can shoot at less than 1/2 power on my flash using the softbox umbrellas when they are ~5ft away from subject (3/4 body or head shots). This great reduces cycle time and increases battery life. Umbrella vs. Softbox: a quick comparison \| Portrait & Family Photography - Jacob Vorpahl The primary benefit associated with shoot throughs that I found during my research is that you could place them closer to the subject for table top shooting. If you Google Umbrella vs. Softbox or Comparing Umbrella Softbox, you will find some great pro vs con discussions. Good luck with your decision Tim PS: Glad you like the light stands.

05-19-2011, 07:54 AM	#21
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Tim, I definitely want what you have, a black backed umbrella with flat white bottom cover. But I'd also like the inverse: black bottom & white tops for shoot through. Or sometimes I might want the contrasty light of reflective umbrella. Seems like I can just buy two shoot through umbrellas and make some fitted removable bottom covers and dome covers that will let the umbrella do anything (including what you have)--as I mentioned above in detail. Thanks again! I am going to make those DIY brackets of your's soon too

05-19-2011, 07:58 AM	#22
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Originally posted by alohadave Lastolite 8-in-1 Umbrella (40") LL LU4538 B&H Photo Video That is a really nice umbrella! I want two of them! Too bad they are sooo expensive. I can make the same for around $35 I am guessing. But it is a bit of sewing.

05-19-2011, 09:37 AM	#24
MPrince Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: WV Posts: 1,495	I have this kit from B&H: Impact Digital Flash Umbrella Mount Kit B&H Photo Video. It has served me well for a few years now.

05-19-2011, 06:41 PM	#26
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by atupdate Where the differences occur should be in the quantity of the light (how much reaches the subject vs. spilling into other areas of the room, the amount of spread/directional control of where the light goes, and the shape of the highlights. I like the umbrella highlights better than a square/rectangle softbox. I also think that the reflective softbox umbrella produces less spill than a standard reflective umbrella or a shoot through umbrella. I would expect a softbox would produce slightly less spill. The highlights are really it. If you're looking for that slick magazine advertisement look, the rectangular highlights (originally designed to model north window light) is the way to go. I think it depends on the image; I've seen both that looked very nice.

06-10-2011, 01:01 AM	#27
geekette Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 528 Original Poster	Received my two 43" shoot through umbrellas today via UPS--got my 2 x manfroto 026 & 2 x stroboframe today as well. This is the first time I ever used an umbrella and I set it up to shoot through. Took a shot of me at Rembrandt angle, up close and it's like MAGIC! Never seen such beautiful light! It really makes a person look really good Now I am going to have a lot of fun with portraits!