[klh]

I recently purchased two Sigma EF-610 DGs and I'm loving them. However, I've already found that there are some instances where another light or two would be helpful, such as lighting the background or as a hair light.

Does the following make sense? Instead of buying more Sigmas, can someone recommend a cheaper manual flash that I can use as an optical slave only? Also, it would be helpful if it would reliably ignore the preflash so my key and fill lights could run off PTTL, but the slaves (set up manually) would fire when the others fire.

I realize most would probably go totally manual with RF triggers, but I'm not to that level yet.

[Coeurdechene]

I realize most would probably go totally manual with RF triggers, but I'm not to that level yet.

You can always take a look to the painting in layers seminar or the Zach Arias one light one...with those and a bit of practice you will be at the level fairly fast

And for the manual flash that ignores preflash i think the YN560 does that in one of it's slaves modes...you should look at a complete review though, i'm saying this from memory..

[klh]

Here's the specs I'm looking for...

- Optical slave that ignores preflash of PTTL
- Tilt and Swivel
- Manual power settings
- Zoom

The YN560 looks to be about $70, and if I read the description right, meets all these. From the reviews I read, what's not to like?

What about the Vivitar DF 383? Will it successfully ignore the preflash? It runs about $120, so maybe not the best deal.

Also found an ALZO Manual Speedlight which seems to do all I need for $80. Anyone have experience with that one?

[Wheatfield]

If you are serious about studio work, then forget about the shoe mount flashes entirely and get some studio lights.

[klh]

If you are serious about studio work, then forget about the shoe mount flashes entirely and get some studio lights.

Maybe someday, but for now I'm wanting a kit that's very portable and flexible.

[Wheatfield]

Maybe someday, but for now I'm wanting a kit that's very portable and flexible.

My portable studio kit fits into a (largish admittedly) Samsonite suitcase.
That's a power pack and 4 heads plus cables nestled in protective foam.
Add to that light stands and if I want to travel really light, a few umbrellas and soft boxes.
This is not only portable, but far more flexible than the Rube Goldberg contraptions that people submit to in fits of masochism with shoe mount flash units being forced to do what they are not designed to do.
I get modeling lights as an added bonus and I don't have to carry a bunch of AA batteries and pray that they'll go the distance.
Portable and flexible still is advantage studio flash units.

Now, as I said, if you are serious about studio work.
If you are, you will eventually end up with a studio kit. Every photographer that I know who is serious about studio work (myself included) has gone from some sort of sandbox kit of hot lights or flash units to real studio lights.
My own journey has taken me from photoflood lights in reflectors to a bunch of Vivitar flash units with optical slaves, to a Metz 60 with Mecatwins to (finally) Photogenic lights.
I'm just trying to save you a few steps.
If you aren't serious about studio photography, forget everything I've said.

[adwb]

Here's the specs I'm looking for...

- Optical slave that ignores preflash of PTTL
- Tilt and Swivel
- Manual power settings
- Zoom

The YN560 looks to be about $70, and if I read the description right, meets all these. From the reviews I read, what's not to like?

What about the Vivitar DF 383? Will it successfully ignore the preflash? It runs about $120, so maybe not the best deal.

Also found an ALZO Manual Speedlight which seems to do all I need for $80. Anyone have experience with that one?

yn 560 works well i have 2 on mode 2 they ignore pre flash

[Coeurdechene]

The catch on the yonnuo is that they are Chinese made and marketed...so there are sometimes quality control issues, and customer service is as bad as it can get. Other than that they are fine flashes.
The lumopro 120 are also a great alternative...better QC, usa based, better customer service...about 120$, but i'm not sure if they ignore preflash.
But once you get into manual i doubt you will use pttl much...with practice manual control gives you consistent and good results, and when you know the flashes you won't "lose" time fiddling with the controls.

Wheatfield is you equipment battery powered?...i'm assembling a cheap flash based strobist kit because the portable and autonomous studio kits go over the roof for me (i'm serious but broke i'd like to dream about it...probably bookmark it, and save at turtle pace to get me one.).

[Wheatfield]

Wheatfield is you equipment battery powered?...i'm assembling a cheap flash based strobist kit because the portable and autonomous studio kits go over the roof for me (i'm serious but broke i'd like to dream about it...probably bookmark it, and save at turtle pace to get me one.).

If I really need battery powered, I have my Metz 60 with a twin, and I can always dig around and find some old flash units and slaves.
However, my tendency is to work where there is power, and I suspect most of the time, most people do the same thing.
I haven't had a problem when on location finding a power outlet ever.
Some people will shoot in different situations where the strobe approach might make sense, but I was speaking to studio photography, not working on a beach somewhere (though I have seen very nice work done on beaches).

[klh]

yn 560 works well i have 2 on mode 2 they ignore pre flash

One more question. If the 560 is set on Slave 2, does it have to see the preflash to fire correctly? In other words, if it is not in view of the camera, will it still flash with the other off camera flashes?

[adwb]

One more question. If the 560 is set on Slave 2, does it have to see the preflash to fire correctly? In other words, if it is not in view of the camera, will it still flash with the other off camera flashes?

yes they do and the hand book suggest that the swivel head is used so the head points at the subject and the body is turned to "see" the trigger flash.

In a studio room , church etc obviously not a problem any way , but I have yet to test in a bright, out door situation, on a dull day they seem to see the reflection from the built in camera's flash turned down to -2 and with a bit of bubble wrap to defuse it further.

The yn560 however does not work if the camera flash is set to wireless and controler mode and I assume this is because the flash is not bright enought and I have not tried it in master mode as I did not want the frontal flash from the camera on the subject.

That said I suppose a home made reflector to blank the frontal flash and divert it sideways might work?

However I have a Metz 48 which works in slave mode with a Pentax and that Metz on wireless mode works in bright light for a fill flash so I don't see why the YN won't work in bright sunlight.

The Metz also "sees " the flash when in wireless / slave mode.

Remember the the term wireless is not a radio transmission, but literally a connection with out wires.
Is that now as clear as mud to you???
Alistair

[adwb]

I will try tomorrow, if it is bright enough ,to see if I can sort out when the yn560 will or will not flash when using the optical trigger as I have only used the in bright sun light with a wireless trigger setup.

[jolepp]

+1 for YN560 (PT-04 radio triggers are another worthy, and outright cheap thing to have )

[philbaum]

+1 for YN560 (PT-04 radio triggers are another worthy, and outright cheap thing to have )

The predecessor to the YN560 is the YN460 II, the 460II has the identical S1 and S2 optical triggers that the 560 has. Its a little smaller and a little lighter but has the same GN at 35mm as the 560. The 460 has no lens zoom like the 560. I have both. The 460II is only $40 to $45. The lens zoom actually is quite effective in projecting light, the 560 with 105mm zoom has GN49 i believe, and only 34 at 35mm. The only negative on the 560 is that the test button is recessed too far and has a stiff spring, i.e. its not a good flash for light painting except if you can use both hands. the 460II is ideal for light painting and both models are readily available at Amazon.
Link for review:
http://speedlights.net/2010/07/14/yongnuo-yn-560-speedlite-review/

[adwb]

I will try tomorrow, if it is bright enough ,to see if I can sort out when the yn560 will or will not flash when using the optical trigger as I have only used the in bright sun light with a wireless trigger setup.

ok so we got a break and strong sunlight [plus a b****Y gale] and here is what I found. Both the YN 560 and the Metz 48 require either a reflection of the flash from the subject or to "see " the trigger flash.
In bright sunlight the reflected trigger flash dies not happen unless you are very close.
However both flashes will allow the flash head to be rotated so the front sensor on the flash points backyards. This means that if you do this and have the slave flash in front of you but out of shot you can trigger in full bright sunlight.
There has to be a limit to how far away and how far off to one side but I have not experimented to see what these limits are.