when i bounce to ceiling, the pic looks unplesant.

Mike Cash · 05-18-2011, 04:18 PM

Another trick, and one which costs ZERO to use, is to kneel down to shoot when the ceiling is low. That will make your bounce area on the ceiling much larger, which means a larger and more diffuse light source.

And when ceiling bouncing you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be aware of the direction your flash is pointing.

liukaitc · 05-18-2011, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

Another trick, and one which costs ZERO to use, is to kneel down to shoot when the ceiling is low. That will make your bounce area on the ceiling much larger, which means a larger and more diffuse light source.

And when ceiling bouncing you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be aware of the direction your flash is pointing.

Yeah. Thanks for the note especially the last one.
I sometimes forget to tilt the head back after shoot vertically. because I still think the head is staight up but no. it pointed to the right now and hurt people's eye right to me....This can be dangerious.

maltfalc · 05-19-2011, 12:46 AM

you don't want the flash pointing straight up if you're shooting anything that extends higher than your flash. up and back or up, back and a bit to the left or right and make sure it's pointed at something fairly light and neutral so you don't ruin the white balance.

liukaitc · 05-19-2011, 11:31 AM

anyone recommend a diffuser and bounce card for me?
When I search on amazon. It has too many of them.

liukaitc · 05-19-2011, 02:21 PM

Rogue FlashBenders ROGUERESM Small Positionable Reflector

I find this one on amazon。 looks interesting。

ToGo · 05-19-2011, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by liukaitc

anyone recommend a diffuser and bounce card for me?
When I search on amazon. It has too many of them.

You can easily make your own bounce card with a piece of craft foam and rubber bands or velcro. I have them in both white and black, the black one lets you be more precise with your lighting. If you want a commercial one check out Demb flipit: Demb Flash Products - Flip-it! the variable-angle flash reflector. A little expensive, but well built and easy to use and folds out of the way.

Also check out these two web sites they have about everything you every wanted to know about using a flash.

Planet Neil - planet neil
Strobist: Strobist

Entropy · 05-25-2011, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by liukaitc

here is the pic. the uppart looks no good. is that because the ceiling is so low? I just flash straight upward, bounce to ceiling. bare flash, no any diffuser kind thing attached.
Anyway not only this pic. I shoot a lot indoor event. In club, resturant, party kind of places. I find many of my photo the uppart is too bright or has nasty reflection. I point my flash head staight up all the time.
Help!! How to improve my flash skill. First I think must buy some diffuser kind thing? Right? second, is that always bounce to ceiling when indoor? but if flash directly to the subject, it would be worse..so I guess no other option??

In your first pic, it looks like your flash might be contributing directly to the upper part of the mega-bottle there. Look at how there's a harsh shadow cast on the ceiling behind the bottle - that's a sign of direct flash contribution.

You may in that case need to angle the flash backwards behind you a bit, so the part of the ceiling you're bouncing off of is a bit farther from the subject (but be careful that it's not so far back that you cast shadows yourself).

Also play around with the flash zoom settings - Wide angles provide a very diffused light source, but with greatly increased risk of direct flash contributions. Zoomed flash provides a smaller bounced light source but it is unlikely to contribute direct flash to the photo.

My experience with the diffuser on the AF-540FGZ is that it causes a LOT of light leakage to the sides of the flash and even downwards (for a flash pointed straight up) - it is extremely difficult to avoid significant direct contributions when using the diffuser.

As to your second image, which appears to be of a real soy bottle that is fairly reflective - specular reflections are VERY difficult to control unfortunately.

hoanpham · 05-25-2011, 02:01 PM

You may need this book

Amazon.com: Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting (9780240808192): Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: Books

One of the best book I have about light and photography.

hillerby · 05-25-2011, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by krypticide

Instead of bouncing straight up, try bouncing a little to the side too. Also, the harsh shadow may come from leaking light, so consider using a grid or flag to prevent direct light from falling in your subject.

Sent from my EVO 4G with MIUI

That woulda' been my suggestion. I usually aim my flash head upwards at approx 45 degrees (or more), that usually gives a little direct light from the flash to hit the subject with the bounced lighting providing some fill. In any case, I rarely bounce "straight up".

bdery · 05-26-2011, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by liukaitc

what about this one. i still feel the part on the bottle is kind unpleasant. or maybe that the way it is by using flash. what you pro think?

I gotta say, that second shot looks pretty fine to me. Background well exposed, subject well lit.

Originally posted by liukaitc

I used a cheap 280t previously.

A reliable tool. A PTTL flash will be even trickier to use at first, but will offer more opportunities.

Entropy · 05-26-2011, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by bdery

I gotta say, that second shot looks pretty fine to me. Background well exposed, subject well lit.

A reliable tool. A PTTL flash will be even trickier to use at first, but will offer more opportunities.

I think he dislikes the specular reflection off of the bottle.

liukaitc · 05-28-2011, 04:12 PM

Thanks for all response. I think I definately need buy a book to learn lighting.

by the way. I went to a few more indoor event these days. I find sometimes I do not need use flash. If the room is well lit, I can use f2.8 and still got ISO within 1600.

Is this the case with other people? Do you guys use flash all the time indoor?

for example this situation, I did not use flash. iso800 f2.8 1/50.
is it ok?

Mike Cash · 05-29-2011, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by hillerby

That woulda' been my suggestion. I usually aim my flash head upwards at approx 45 degrees (or more), that usually gives a little direct light from the flash to hit the subject with the bounced lighting providing some fill. In any case, I rarely bounce "straight up".

When shooting across a room, I split the difference and aim the flash at the ceiling about halfway across, but most of the time when I am using flash on-camera I am within a couple of feet of my my subject, where straight up works quite well.

Both
Pentax K20D
Tamron 17-50/2.8
Pentax AF280T

adpo · 05-30-2011, 01:10 PM

bouncing straight up can also get some pretty dramatic effects, in regards to subject-background separation

here's a random dance floor shot a few weeks back. I had my own flash pointed straight up and set to 28mm on the zoom setting while the flash in the back was optically slaved and pointed straight at my camera (i think it was a canon 430ex? not sure, it was one of my friend's flashes)

**Ash** · 05-30-2011, 05:28 PM

liukaitc, your image isn't bad, but at f/2.8 it will give you soft results for subjects that are not exactly the same distance away from the lens as your principal point of focus. Better in those situations where light is so limited to use flash. Bounce it off anything you can: the ceiling, the walls, a reflective surface somewhere around. Bounced results generally look much better than direct flash. Sometimes, you can try to balance ambient lighting by metering for a non-flashed shot, then reduce your ISO by one stop and flip the flash onto P-TTL for a filled exposure, thereby getting some of the ambience of the scene whilst still filling with light onto your subjects.

05-25-2011, 02:59 PM	#24
hillerby Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Sherman Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 224	Ya' BEAT ME TO IT! Originally posted by krypticide Instead of bouncing straight up, try bouncing a little to the side too. Also, the harsh shadow may come from leaking light, so consider using a grid or flag to prevent direct light from falling in your subject. Sent from my EVO 4G with MIUI That woulda' been my suggestion. I usually aim my flash head upwards at approx 45 degrees (or more), that usually gives a little direct light from the flash to hit the subject with the bounced lighting providing some fill. In any case, I rarely bounce "straight up".

05-28-2011, 04:12 PM	#27
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008 Original Poster	Thanks for all response. I think I definately need buy a book to learn lighting. by the way. I went to a few more indoor event these days. I find sometimes I do not need use flash. If the room is well lit, I can use f2.8 and still got ISO within 1600. Is this the case with other people? Do you guys use flash all the time indoor? for example this situation, I did not use flash. iso800 f2.8 1/50. is it ok? Last edited by liukaitc; 05-28-2011 at 04:40 PM.

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05-18-2011, 04:18 PM	#16
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Another trick, and one which costs ZERO to use, is to kneel down to shoot when the ceiling is low. That will make your bounce area on the ceiling much larger, which means a larger and more diffuse light source. And when ceiling bouncing you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be aware of the direction your flash is pointing.

05-18-2011, 04:24 PM	#17
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mike Cash Another trick, and one which costs ZERO to use, is to kneel down to shoot when the ceiling is low. That will make your bounce area on the ceiling much larger, which means a larger and more diffuse light source. And when ceiling bouncing you must ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be aware of the direction your flash is pointing. Yeah. Thanks for the note especially the last one. I sometimes forget to tilt the head back after shoot vertically. because I still think the head is staight up but no. it pointed to the right now and hurt people's eye right to me....This can be dangerious.

05-19-2011, 12:46 AM	#18
maltfalc Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Winnipeg Photos: Albums Posts: 396	you don't want the flash pointing straight up if you're shooting anything that extends higher than your flash. up and back or up, back and a bit to the left or right and make sure it's pointed at something fairly light and neutral so you don't ruin the white balance.

05-19-2011, 11:31 AM	#19
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008 Original Poster	anyone recommend a diffuser and bounce card for me? When I search on amazon. It has too many of them.

05-19-2011, 02:21 PM	#20
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008 Original Poster	Rogue FlashBenders ROGUERESM Small Positionable Reflector I find this one on amazon。 looks interesting。

05-19-2011, 03:14 PM	#21
ToGo Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NYC Photos: Albums Posts: 56	Originally posted by liukaitc anyone recommend a diffuser and bounce card for me? When I search on amazon. It has too many of them. You can easily make your own bounce card with a piece of craft foam and rubber bands or velcro. I have them in both white and black, the black one lets you be more precise with your lighting. If you want a commercial one check out Demb flipit: Demb Flash Products - Flip-it! the variable-angle flash reflector. A little expensive, but well built and easy to use and folds out of the way. Also check out these two web sites they have about everything you every wanted to know about using a flash. Planet Neil - planet neil Strobist: Strobist

05-25-2011, 09:13 AM	#22
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	Originally posted by liukaitc here is the pic. the uppart looks no good. is that because the ceiling is so low? I just flash straight upward, bounce to ceiling. bare flash, no any diffuser kind thing attached. Anyway not only this pic. I shoot a lot indoor event. In club, resturant, party kind of places. I find many of my photo the uppart is too bright or has nasty reflection. I point my flash head staight up all the time. Help!! How to improve my flash skill. First I think must buy some diffuser kind thing? Right? second, is that always bounce to ceiling when indoor? but if flash directly to the subject, it would be worse..so I guess no other option?? In your first pic, it looks like your flash might be contributing directly to the upper part of the mega-bottle there. Look at how there's a harsh shadow cast on the ceiling behind the bottle - that's a sign of direct flash contribution. You may in that case need to angle the flash backwards behind you a bit, so the part of the ceiling you're bouncing off of is a bit farther from the subject (but be careful that it's not so far back that you cast shadows yourself). Also play around with the flash zoom settings - Wide angles provide a very diffused light source, but with greatly increased risk of direct flash contributions. Zoomed flash provides a smaller bounced light source but it is unlikely to contribute direct flash to the photo. My experience with the diffuser on the AF-540FGZ is that it causes a LOT of light leakage to the sides of the flash and even downwards (for a flash pointed straight up) - it is extremely difficult to avoid significant direct contributions when using the diffuser. As to your second image, which appears to be of a real soy bottle that is fairly reflective - specular reflections are VERY difficult to control unfortunately.

05-25-2011, 02:01 PM	#23
hoanpham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Strand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,366	You may need this book Amazon.com: Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting (9780240808192): Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: Books One of the best book I have about light and photography.

05-26-2011, 03:53 AM	#25
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by liukaitc what about this one. i still feel the part on the bottle is kind unpleasant. or maybe that the way it is by using flash. what you pro think? I gotta say, that second shot looks pretty fine to me. Background well exposed, subject well lit. Originally posted by liukaitc I used a cheap 280t previously. A reliable tool. A PTTL flash will be even trickier to use at first, but will offer more opportunities.

05-26-2011, 09:51 AM	#26
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	Originally posted by bdery I gotta say, that second shot looks pretty fine to me. Background well exposed, subject well lit. A reliable tool. A PTTL flash will be even trickier to use at first, but will offer more opportunities. I think he dislikes the specular reflection off of the bottle.

05-29-2011, 03:01 AM	#28
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Originally posted by hillerby That woulda' been my suggestion. I usually aim my flash head upwards at approx 45 degrees (or more), that usually gives a little direct light from the flash to hit the subject with the bounced lighting providing some fill. In any case, I rarely bounce "straight up". When shooting across a room, I split the difference and aim the flash at the ceiling about halfway across, but most of the time when I am using flash on-camera I am within a couple of feet of my my subject, where straight up works quite well. Both Pentax K20D Tamron 17-50/2.8 Pentax AF280T

05-30-2011, 01:10 PM	#29
adpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 888	bouncing straight up can also get some pretty dramatic effects, in regards to subject-background separation here's a random dance floor shot a few weeks back. I had my own flash pointed straight up and set to 28mm on the zoom setting while the flash in the back was optically slaved and pointed straight at my camera (i think it was a canon 430ex? not sure, it was one of my friend's flashes)

05-30-2011, 05:28 PM	#30
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	liukaitc, your image isn't bad, but at f/2.8 it will give you soft results for subjects that are not exactly the same distance away from the lens as your principal point of focus. Better in those situations where light is so limited to use flash. Bounce it off anything you can: the ceiling, the walls, a reflective surface somewhere around. Bounced results generally look much better than direct flash. Sometimes, you can try to balance ambient lighting by metering for a non-flashed shot, then reduce your ISO by one stop and flip the flash onto P-TTL for a filled exposure, thereby getting some of the ambience of the scene whilst still filling with light onto your subjects.