[oakey1979]

Hi,
I'm looking for a good value flash. I want to be able to use it on camera with swivel and tilt and off camera on a stand with a softbox for sidelighting portraits. I'm confused about whether I need a slave flash (ie Metz 50), master flash (ie Metz 58) or can use a cheaper YNxxx with a trigger. Also, how much of an advantage is PTTL, is it tricky or slow to set up a flash manually? Would you need to reset it each time you move to shoot from a different angle? I'd also like to be able to use it in combination with a second off camera flash in future.
I'm hoping not to have to spend anywhere near as much as a Metz58 costs! Any advice?

[MRRiley]

Moved to "Flash" forum since this is not a question specific to the K-r...

Mike
PF Moderation Team

[MPrince]

I recommend the Nikon SB-24 and/or SB-20. Both can be used on camera in manual or auto mode, and both are excellent off camera flashes. The 24 is more useful on camera as it tilts and swivels. The 20 tilts but does not swivel.

The 24 usually runs around $75 in excellent condition at www.keh.com. The 20 is around $40.

I use Paul Buff Cybersync triggers.

[Coeurdechene]

The sb's are a fine option...and since in Flash photo, when it's not something like paparazzi work, you want control and consistency, they are GREAT flashes. One problem though, they are fairly old flashes and you get no warranty (and i think the price has gone up to fairly more than 75$...at least in fleabay).
The YN are a good option, great price, but big CATCH: chinese quality cntrol and then customer service are far from brilliant and they can be a real hassle!..it's a thing of luck or lack of it.

The metz 48 is a fine option...with manual control up to 1/128 of it's power...great build quality and quality control. i think that for your stated purposes this is one of the best options, but if you start using it off camera you will soon start looking at other units to complement it and get a more versatile and capable setup.
You could look into the Sigma 610 super too...
I'm assuming The Cardiff in your location is the england one...if you were in the states the lumopro is a mouthwatering flash (good QC and 2 year guarantee).

My advice would be to see the lighting in layers DVD, or the Zach Arias one light workshop DVD and then explore the different manual flashes you can buy...and also consider the usage..because when you start thinking about lighting gear the speedlights can get to the prize of studio strobes quite fast...

For the triggers check out the cactus V5...they are fine, have some great features...but have the chinese made and marketed issue (although the feedback on this particular item seems pretty good)...
I got the seculine Twin link wich are working fine because i needed them for a job and could not wait the v5..so i went to a phisical store and got me these.

good luck, you're about to enter another realm of buying addiction, hunting and gear comparing.

[MPrince]

(and i think the price has gone up to fairly more than 75$...at least in fleabay).

The price I quoted is accurate for SB-24's listed for sale in excellent condition at keh.com as of a couple of days ago. Otherwise, I wouldn't have quoted it.

http://www.keh.com/camera/Nikon-Autofocus-Shoe-Mount-Flashes/1/sku-NA210000185000?r=FE

My experience with used Nikon flashes with no warranty leads me to the conclusion that the lack of a warranty is nothing to be concerned with, though of course ymmv.

[oakey1979]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Just to clarify, as my post was moved, I am using a Pentax k-r. It doesn't have a jack so I'm assuming any flash I get needs to have wireless control.
Are the nikon flashes compatible with a k-r? Good news if this is true!
Also, my Cardiff is not the USA one, but neither is it in England - it's the capital city of Wales (but I take your point, thanks).

[Coeurdechene]

Are the nikon flashes compatible with a k-r? Good news if this is true!

Yep.
I'm in my way to saving up for a pair of sb 2*.
And yes you will need a radio trigger, or an IR trigger...there are some quite cheap triggers out there. There is a review of the V5 here in the forums:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-flashes-lighting-technique/128986-...er-review.html

if you want P-ttl for quick snapshots where you don't want to be adjusting the flash get a metz as primary flash and an sb as a second one. Although you can use auto mode on the Sb's too (p-ttl isn't a great automatic flash system, it preflashes to get the settings for the exposure wich a lot of times gets you the closed eyes photo).

I'm sure you already know it (probably) but i'll still throw it your way just in case you don't:
Strobist
i spend hours there reading the 101 and the on assigments...very cool website.

[MPrince]

Both the sb24 and sb20 have pc jacks. You can also buy hotshoe adaptors that have miniphone jacks. Both nikons work fine on my k-7 in both manual and auto modes when used on camera, but of course there is no p-ttl.

[TZH]

Yep.
(p-ttl isn't a great automatic flash system, it preflashes to get the settings for the exposure wich a lot of times gets you the closed eyes photo).

Thats true .... annoying problem
What say we try auto mode

[Coeurdechene]

What say we try auto mode

Auto mode is a lot of the times a beter option than p-ttl...But i reiterate if you want control, consistent and good results the best thing to do is to go fully manual. With a bit of practice you don't "lose" much time setting the flash for the correct exposure (chimping is a great aid there, it's not as if we still were in the film days, where the process would be a lot more time consuming and photometer involving).

[Mike Cash]

Hi,
Also, how much of an advantage is PTTL, is it tricky or slow to set up a flash manually? Would you need to reset it each time you move to shoot from a different angle? I'd also like to be able to use it in combination with a second off camera flash in future.

For flash exposure, the only distance that matters is flash-subject distance. So if your manual flash is mounted on the camera, then yes you need to adjust something every time you move around if the distance to your subject is changing. If your manual flash is off the camera and stays the same distance from your subject while you move around with the camera, then all settings remain the same and it doesn't matter a hill of beans where you are with the camera. This is one of the major advantages of off-camera flash (ease/consistency of settings when using el cheapo manual flash units).

[Xsalfior]

I would also recommend the Nikon flashes if you are planning to shoot in full manual. For triggers I highly recommend the Yongnuo RF-602's I use them with three flashes off camera and I have never had a misfire. They are also very inexpensive. I personally don't like to rely on TTL as I don't find it consistent since you are letting software decided what would look best.

[SOldBear]

A recent thread on the same topic: link.

[sawtooth235]

If you are looking to go with in-flash automatic units and/or highly controlable manual use then I would highly recommend the Sunpak 522. They are powerful GN 120, have swivel and tilt, manually adjustable to 128th power and 4 auto ranges. Plus they are cheap on e-bay. I use the RD 616 triggers with mine and have never missed a shot.