Help with Kx and using the flash of camera

paulette1979 · 07-16-2011, 07:46 PM

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Hello

I've got a Metz 48 af-1 for Pentax and am trying to get this thing off camera. I'm a newbie at flash photography & I'm DYING to get this thing off and onto a stand.

I'm having trouble with finding the right stuff (and the right information) to fire it. The flash works just fine in the hot shoe on camera. I was working with a local camera store & they fixed me up with a Nikon hot shoe adapter for a sync cord (since the Kx doesn't have a port), the cord and the shoe for the bottom of the flash. This setup WILL NOT fire the flash. The camera store tested the cords - work just find. They were able to get the flash to fire using a Nikon.. but not with my Kx. They told me that it's likely that the Kx will not fire a flash off camera or have to use a Pentax flash. That sounded like bull crap to me and from what I've read in this forum other HAVE been able to use a flash off camera & use ones that are not Pentax.

So my question is what do I need & where can I get it. I love the Kx & don't want to ditch it. I don't even need to TTL functionality. I just want to use the manual mode (to adjust the power) anyways. When I bought the Metz I thought I was buying the right flash. Do I need just a pure manual flash (something like a Vivitar?) and what type of cords/triggers to I need to fire it? I'm not looking for the most expensive option... this a more of a hobby/interest for me.

Suggestions/information/links are MUCH appreciated

SOldBear · 07-16-2011, 10:39 PM

Do you remember how the Kx was set up at the local camera store?

Pentax DSLRs don't trigger the flash if the shutter speed is greater than 1/180 sec. I bet you that was the problem at the store.

A simple sync cord should work; even a cord for Nikon or Canon should work.

Of if you want p-TTL, you can get a cord like this: link to eBay listing (I have no connection with this listing, just pick it at random).

adpo · 07-16-2011, 10:43 PM

there is a pentax-specific cord/hotshoe adapter thing for pttl off-camera flash. The nikon ttl systems are not compatible with pentax (oh how i wish there were at times)

to get it to work, you get a few options:
1. use the flash in wireless mode. The red thingy in front will detect the popup flash pulse on the k-x and will be able to fire wirelessly with pttl. you need line of sight for this to work. If you do not want your popup flash's flash to show up in the image, there is a setting somewhere that lets you determine flash type in wireless mode, i think it was option 17. Set this to off if you do not want the popup flash to show in your image, on if you want both flashes to show

2. use a dumb cord and adapter. This is like the nikon adapter but only has the middle metal electric contact thing. you can only use manual mode with this

3. use wireless triggers. avoid triggers that do ttl, go for dumb triggers. this is the same as the dumb cord and adapter except its wireless via radio signals. examples include standard pocketwizards, r-602, catctus v, etc. ones to avoid would be the pocketwizard flex and rf-603.

snostorm · 07-16-2011, 11:41 PM

Hi paulette,

The Pentax P-TTL solution is a bit confusing, but here it is:

Get 1 ea Off Camera Shoe Adapter F

Pentax Off Camera Shoe Adpater F 31046 B&H Photo Video

Get 1 ea F5P Extension cord

Pentax F5P 3' Extension Cord for Off-Camera TTL Flash 37347 B&H

and get 1 ea of either the Hot shoe adapter F

Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter F 31022 B&H Photo Video

or 1 ea Hot shoe adapter FG

Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter FG TTL flash adapter

The difference between the last two is that the FG only has an F5P port, and the F has a hot shoe plus the F5P port so you can also use a P-TTL external flash on-camera as well as the remote external flash connected to the cord.

You connect the appropriate Hot shoe adapter, the cord, and the Off camera shoe adapter, and you have a remote P-TTL cord. The advantage of the Pentax system is that you can also get an uncoiled 9 foot long cord F5PL, for more extension. I have an FG-F5P-F setup, and it's lightweight and very flexible, but I've heard reports that the adapters break after extended use, and it is expensive. . .I bought mine used from KEH -- you can look under Pentax flash accessories to see if they have any used ones -- stock changes all the time, and you might get lucky.

There are also one piece cord sets for P-TTL. I found these two at B&H, and assume that they work, and B&H is a reputable outfit, so I doubt that they'd carry the product if either were junk, but I can't say. I have a Pro-Line and it's heavy duty, but the cord is not very flexible, so it doesn't stretch to the claimed 3 ft length, and the weight of the cord plus the tension makes positioning the external flash on a stand difficult. These don't look like they have this problem, but the length might not let you get the separation that you might want.

Dot Line RPS TTL Off-Camera Flash Cord with Swivel RS-0444/1 B&H

Vivitar Digital Off-Shoe Flash Cord VIV-FC-PEN B&H Photo Video

If you are definitely going to only use manual mode for the flash, there have been non dedicated hot shoe to hot shoe extension cords, but they are pretty long obsolete, so finding one might be a problem.

If you live in an area where there is an old time B&M camera store or a "professional" photographic store, they might have some old used equipment for sale. You'd be looking for a cord with:

1. one end with something that looks like the foot of your flash, but only with one contact in the center on one side and a threaded hole on the other side,

2. something that looks like the hot shoe on your camera with only the big center contact in the middle on the other end.

I found one of these a few years ago for about $5

Your last alternative is to find the same thing as the last thing I described, but in components -- a hot shoe to PC adapter, a PC to PC cord, and a PC to hotshoe adapter. This is probably what the local camera store tried, but with some Nikon components. I'm not sure why this didn't work, but here are some alternatives:

FAPC15 Adorama Non-Dedicated PC Sync Terminal Adapter (Hot Shoe to PC)

HSA302 Adorama Adapter shoe mount & PC 1010302

PMPCMM Paramount 5' Coiled Sync Cord, PC Male to PC Male

You should be able to find longer PC male to PC male cords, but this gives you an idea of what to look for.

You could of course get one of the P-TTL alternatives and just switch the flash gun to manual mode. You could then also use P-TTL if you wanted to. . .

Scott

adr1an · 07-17-2011, 12:02 AM

You can most definetly do off camera with pentax's - regardless of flash type!

See just here for example, using 4 off camera: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photography-articles/152133-how-maybe-sho...ite-white.html

Does the Metz 48 have a built in optical slave ? if so - just set the metz to slave mode, and use manual flash. If your using a stand, manual is better than TTL anyway since it'll be infinitely repeatable shot-to-shot. Dial the onboard flash to -2 and it shouldn't effect the image (unless you want it for fill). If the metz doesn't have an inbuilt slave, you could get a WeinBein or something similiar off of eBay that just sits on the hotshoe.. and will usually also only work in manually anyway (not that this is a bad thing at all!

)

If it works with pttl wireless, you may need to do a bit of a dance to sync the flash with the camera - my Sigma required this. Once set though, it will work when using the onboard flash set to "Wireless" and will do the pTTL preflash etc etc. But I much prefer manual myself.

I generally now use a single RF602 wireless trigger to fire a flash, and then any others I use their inbuilt optical slaves to fire... or throw another wireless receiver on them..

Manual also avoids the need for all the complicated and pricey pTTL compatible cables etc etc... its not any more difficult to get the hang of than the whole Aperture/Shutter/ISO thing

pTTL is nice for 'run and gun' I guess or other mobile/discreet situations... but if you can setup a stand in a particular situation - then manual is also the way to go I reckon...

Oh - and obviously - make sure you are using a shutter speed less than 1/180 to ensure the flash is triggered when its not on camera etc.. its easy to overlook when using off-camera flash - better yet flick to X-Sync or Manual mode and then set 1/125 or something and then you are free to tweak the aperture (which controls the amount of flash in the image - not the shutter speed) or ISO (which controls everything).

K57XR · 07-17-2011, 12:26 AM

You can definitely trigger a Metz 48 wireless with a K-x, albeit P-TTL only. I don’t think it can be triggered if the flash is in manual mode without the equipments/gadgets suggested above.

For wireless P-TTL:
1) Set the camera’s flash mode to wireless
2) Press both “+” and “-“buttons at the same time on the Metz repeatedly until you see “SL” flashing on the screen. Then press “+” to set to “On”.
3) Make sure the camera and the flash are on the same channel….by default they should both be in channel “1” so you may not need to do anything on this part.
4) Wait five seconds to accept settings.

You should be good to go.

If you need/want to control the flash remotely without P-TTL then I would follow the suggestions above.

Hope this helps!
Cheers!

ptwist61 · 07-17-2011, 01:35 AM

Real inexpensive Remote Trigger. It works wireless from your DSLR. Trust Me.

YN-04 II Wireless Flash Trigger for Nikon Canon Pentax - eBay (item 200402311561 end time Jul-27-11 19:51:02 PDT)

paulette1979 · 07-17-2011, 06:33 AM

Everyone thank you sooo much for your help. Obviously the local camera store is NOT familiar with Pentax cameras because based your suggestions:

1. I hooked up the system that they had provided me- a dumb hot shoe pc adaptor, pc cord and the hot shoe adaptor on the flash; set the shutter speed to 1/160 and viola... a firing of the Metz in manual!!!!!! I was setting to 1/200 which works for Canon & Nikon. The store must not have been aware that Pentax syncs at a slower shutter speed.

2. I set my camera to the wireless mode and turned the Flash to slave, turned the pop up flash on & the Metz fired just fine. The trick was that the pop up flash on the camera had to be on in order for it to work. In the store the pop up flash was still shut. I don't ever plan on using the ttl or p-ttl, but if I did I guess I could use a small piece of something to knock down the pop up.

Last summer I had bought a really, really, really cheap pair of wireless triggers that wouldn't fire the flash. I sent them back thinking that they were either defective or not compatible. Now after this little fiasco (solved fiasco

!!!!) I bet that the problem was the shutter speed not being set properly.

adr1an · 07-17-2011, 07:21 AM

Glad it's sorted - I and others suggested it 'cause it is easy to be overlooked - done it many times myself

alohadave · 07-17-2011, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by paulette1979

Everyone thank you sooo much for your help. Obviously the local camera store is NOT familiar with Pentax cameras because based your suggestions:

1. I hooked up the system that they had provided me- a dumb hot shoe pc adaptor, pc cord and the hot shoe adaptor on the flash; set the shutter speed to 1/160 and viola... a firing of the Metz in manual!!!!!! I was setting to 1/200 which works for Canon & Nikon. The store must not have been aware that Pentax syncs at a slower shutter speed.

2. I set my camera to the wireless mode and turned the Flash to slave, turned the pop up flash on & the Metz fired just fine. The trick was that the pop up flash on the camera had to be on in order for it to work. In the store the pop up flash was still shut. I don't ever plan on using the ttl or p-ttl, but if I did I guess I could use a small piece of something to knock down the pop up.

Last summer I had bought a really, really, really cheap pair of wireless triggers that wouldn't fire the flash. I sent them back thinking that they were either defective or not compatible. Now after this little fiasco (solved fiasco

!!!!) I bet that the problem was the shutter speed not being set properly.

Now that you have that figured out, go to Strobist and read Lighting 101 and Lighting 102. That is 90% of what you need to know to use flash off-camera.

07-16-2011, 07:46 PM	#1
paulette1979 Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 4	Help with Kx and using the flash of camera Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. Hello I've got a Metz 48 af-1 for Pentax and am trying to get this thing off camera. I'm a newbie at flash photography & I'm DYING to get this thing off and onto a stand. I'm having trouble with finding the right stuff (and the right information) to fire it. The flash works just fine in the hot shoe on camera. I was working with a local camera store & they fixed me up with a Nikon hot shoe adapter for a sync cord (since the Kx doesn't have a port), the cord and the shoe for the bottom of the flash. This setup WILL NOT fire the flash. The camera store tested the cords - work just find. They were able to get the flash to fire using a Nikon.. but not with my Kx. They told me that it's likely that the Kx will not fire a flash off camera or have to use a Pentax flash. That sounded like bull crap to me and from what I've read in this forum other HAVE been able to use a flash off camera & use ones that are not Pentax. So my question is what do I need & where can I get it. I love the Kx & don't want to ditch it. I don't even need to TTL functionality. I just want to use the manual mode (to adjust the power) anyways. When I bought the Metz I thought I was buying the right flash. Do I need just a pure manual flash (something like a Vivitar?) and what type of cords/triggers to I need to fire it? I'm not looking for the most expensive option... this a more of a hobby/interest for me. Suggestions/information/links are MUCH appreciated

07-17-2011, 12:02 AM	#5
adr1an Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 739	You can most definetly do off camera with pentax's - regardless of flash type! See just here for example, using 4 off camera: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photography-articles/152133-how-maybe-sho...ite-white.html Does the Metz 48 have a built in optical slave ? if so - just set the metz to slave mode, and use manual flash. If your using a stand, manual is better than TTL anyway since it'll be infinitely repeatable shot-to-shot. Dial the onboard flash to -2 and it shouldn't effect the image (unless you want it for fill). If the metz doesn't have an inbuilt slave, you could get a WeinBein or something similiar off of eBay that just sits on the hotshoe.. and will usually also only work in manually anyway (not that this is a bad thing at all! ) If it works with pttl wireless, you may need to do a bit of a dance to sync the flash with the camera - my Sigma required this. Once set though, it will work when using the onboard flash set to "Wireless" and will do the pTTL preflash etc etc. But I much prefer manual myself. I generally now use a single RF602 wireless trigger to fire a flash, and then any others I use their inbuilt optical slaves to fire... or throw another wireless receiver on them.. Manual also avoids the need for all the complicated and pricey pTTL compatible cables etc etc... its not any more difficult to get the hang of than the whole Aperture/Shutter/ISO thing pTTL is nice for 'run and gun' I guess or other mobile/discreet situations... but if you can setup a stand in a particular situation - then manual is also the way to go I reckon... Oh - and obviously - make sure you are using a shutter speed less than 1/180 to ensure the flash is triggered when its not on camera etc.. its easy to overlook when using off-camera flash - better yet flick to X-Sync or Manual mode and then set 1/125 or something and then you are free to tweak the aperture (which controls the amount of flash in the image - not the shutter speed) or ISO (which controls everything). Last edited by adr1an; 07-17-2011 at 12:10 AM.

07-17-2011, 01:35 AM	#7
ptwist61 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 57	Remote Trigger Real inexpensive Remote Trigger. It works wireless from your DSLR. Trust Me. YN-04 II Wireless Flash Trigger for Nikon Canon Pentax - eBay (item 200402311561 end time Jul-27-11 19:51:02 PDT)

07-17-2011, 06:33 AM	#8
paulette1979 Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 4 Original Poster	Thank you thank you thank you! Everyone thank you sooo much for your help. Obviously the local camera store is NOT familiar with Pentax cameras because based your suggestions: 1. I hooked up the system that they had provided me- a dumb hot shoe pc adaptor, pc cord and the hot shoe adaptor on the flash; set the shutter speed to 1/160 and viola... a firing of the Metz in manual!!!!!! I was setting to 1/200 which works for Canon & Nikon. The store must not have been aware that Pentax syncs at a slower shutter speed. 2. I set my camera to the wireless mode and turned the Flash to slave, turned the pop up flash on & the Metz fired just fine. The trick was that the pop up flash on the camera had to be on in order for it to work. In the store the pop up flash was still shut. I don't ever plan on using the ttl or p-ttl, but if I did I guess I could use a small piece of something to knock down the pop up. Last summer I had bought a really, really, really cheap pair of wireless triggers that wouldn't fire the flash. I sent them back thinking that they were either defective or not compatible. Now after this little fiasco (solved fiasco !!!!) I bet that the problem was the shutter speed not being set properly.

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07-16-2011, 10:39 PM	#2
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Do you remember how the Kx was set up at the local camera store? Pentax DSLRs don't trigger the flash if the shutter speed is greater than 1/180 sec. I bet you that was the problem at the store. A simple sync cord should work; even a cord for Nikon or Canon should work. Of if you want p-TTL, you can get a cord like this: link to eBay listing (I have no connection with this listing, just pick it at random).

07-16-2011, 10:43 PM	#3
adpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 888	there is a pentax-specific cord/hotshoe adapter thing for pttl off-camera flash. The nikon ttl systems are not compatible with pentax (oh how i wish there were at times) to get it to work, you get a few options: 1. use the flash in wireless mode. The red thingy in front will detect the popup flash pulse on the k-x and will be able to fire wirelessly with pttl. you need line of sight for this to work. If you do not want your popup flash's flash to show up in the image, there is a setting somewhere that lets you determine flash type in wireless mode, i think it was option 17. Set this to off if you do not want the popup flash to show in your image, on if you want both flashes to show 2. use a dumb cord and adapter. This is like the nikon adapter but only has the middle metal electric contact thing. you can only use manual mode with this 3. use wireless triggers. avoid triggers that do ttl, go for dumb triggers. this is the same as the dumb cord and adapter except its wireless via radio signals. examples include standard pocketwizards, r-602, catctus v, etc. ones to avoid would be the pocketwizard flex and rf-603.

07-16-2011, 11:41 PM	#4
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Hi paulette, The Pentax P-TTL solution is a bit confusing, but here it is: Get 1 ea Off Camera Shoe Adapter F Pentax Off Camera Shoe Adpater F 31046 B&H Photo Video Get 1 ea F5P Extension cord Pentax F5P 3' Extension Cord for Off-Camera TTL Flash 37347 B&H and get 1 ea of either the Hot shoe adapter F Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter F 31022 B&H Photo Video or 1 ea Hot shoe adapter FG Pentax Hot Shoe Adapter FG TTL flash adapter The difference between the last two is that the FG only has an F5P port, and the F has a hot shoe plus the F5P port so you can also use a P-TTL external flash on-camera as well as the remote external flash connected to the cord. You connect the appropriate Hot shoe adapter, the cord, and the Off camera shoe adapter, and you have a remote P-TTL cord. The advantage of the Pentax system is that you can also get an uncoiled 9 foot long cord F5PL, for more extension. I have an FG-F5P-F setup, and it's lightweight and very flexible, but I've heard reports that the adapters break after extended use, and it is expensive. . .I bought mine used from KEH -- you can look under Pentax flash accessories to see if they have any used ones -- stock changes all the time, and you might get lucky. There are also one piece cord sets for P-TTL. I found these two at B&H, and assume that they work, and B&H is a reputable outfit, so I doubt that they'd carry the product if either were junk, but I can't say. I have a Pro-Line and it's heavy duty, but the cord is not very flexible, so it doesn't stretch to the claimed 3 ft length, and the weight of the cord plus the tension makes positioning the external flash on a stand difficult. These don't look like they have this problem, but the length might not let you get the separation that you might want. Dot Line RPS TTL Off-Camera Flash Cord with Swivel RS-0444/1 B&H Vivitar Digital Off-Shoe Flash Cord VIV-FC-PEN B&H Photo Video If you are definitely going to only use manual mode for the flash, there have been non dedicated hot shoe to hot shoe extension cords, but they are pretty long obsolete, so finding one might be a problem. If you live in an area where there is an old time B&M camera store or a "professional" photographic store, they might have some old used equipment for sale. You'd be looking for a cord with: 1. one end with something that looks like the foot of your flash, but only with one contact in the center on one side and a threaded hole on the other side, 2. something that looks like the hot shoe on your camera with only the big center contact in the middle on the other end. I found one of these a few years ago for about $5 Your last alternative is to find the same thing as the last thing I described, but in components -- a hot shoe to PC adapter, a PC to PC cord, and a PC to hotshoe adapter. This is probably what the local camera store tried, but with some Nikon components. I'm not sure why this didn't work, but here are some alternatives: FAPC15 Adorama Non-Dedicated PC Sync Terminal Adapter (Hot Shoe to PC) HSA302 Adorama Adapter shoe mount & PC 1010302 PMPCMM Paramount 5' Coiled Sync Cord, PC Male to PC Male You should be able to find longer PC male to PC male cords, but this gives you an idea of what to look for. You could of course get one of the P-TTL alternatives and just switch the flash gun to manual mode. You could then also use P-TTL if you wanted to. . . Scott

07-17-2011, 12:26 AM	#6
K57XR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 830	You can definitely trigger a Metz 48 wireless with a K-x, albeit P-TTL only. I don’t think it can be triggered if the flash is in manual mode without the equipments/gadgets suggested above. For wireless P-TTL: 1) Set the camera’s flash mode to wireless 2) Press both “+” and “-“buttons at the same time on the Metz repeatedly until you see “SL” flashing on the screen. Then press “+” to set to “On”. 3) Make sure the camera and the flash are on the same channel….by default they should both be in channel “1” so you may not need to do anything on this part. 4) Wait five seconds to accept settings. You should be good to go. If you need/want to control the flash remotely without P-TTL then I would follow the suggestions above. Hope this helps! Cheers!

07-17-2011, 07:21 AM	#9
adr1an Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 739	Glad it's sorted - I and others suggested it 'cause it is easy to be overlooked - done it many times myself

07-17-2011, 06:22 PM	#10
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by paulette1979 Everyone thank you sooo much for your help. Obviously the local camera store is NOT familiar with Pentax cameras because based your suggestions: 1. I hooked up the system that they had provided me- a dumb hot shoe pc adaptor, pc cord and the hot shoe adaptor on the flash; set the shutter speed to 1/160 and viola... a firing of the Metz in manual!!!!!! I was setting to 1/200 which works for Canon & Nikon. The store must not have been aware that Pentax syncs at a slower shutter speed. 2. I set my camera to the wireless mode and turned the Flash to slave, turned the pop up flash on & the Metz fired just fine. The trick was that the pop up flash on the camera had to be on in order for it to work. In the store the pop up flash was still shut. I don't ever plan on using the ttl or p-ttl, but if I did I guess I could use a small piece of something to knock down the pop up. Last summer I had bought a really, really, really cheap pair of wireless triggers that wouldn't fire the flash. I sent them back thinking that they were either defective or not compatible. Now after this little fiasco (solved fiasco !!!!) I bet that the problem was the shutter speed not being set properly. Now that you have that figured out, go to Strobist and read Lighting 101 and Lighting 102. That is 90% of what you need to know to use flash off-camera.