AF160FC flash.

rvannatta · 08-27-2011, 09:21 PM

Someone had to buy one of these so see how they worked. So I did. I"ve been a long time owner of an AF080C ringflash so the creatures are not new to me. I've now fiddled with it for a couple of days still trying to figure out what to expect when connected with a K5. Getting the exposure right with flash photography is a real beast. I've owned Older model AF080C for around 20 years and when I started with it I was using a K2 which did NOT support TTL. This meant for a lot of guessing on exposures, and then waiting a week to get your film back to see if you guessed right. IT was not a happy situation. Ultimately, I bought a film camera that supported TTL and was a fairly happy camper.

Then, of course the digital world came along and TTL still worked with the *istD but when I got the K10D and then the K5 is was back to the old.
At least I didn't have to wait a week for the film to come back before knowing how to adjust the exposure, but the basic problem with the AF080C
was that in manual mode it was just wrong for the K10D or the K5. If you used the 50mm Macro lens, you needed to insert a 4xND filter to keep from burning out the photos, and with the 100mm macro it tended not flash that far.

This led me to wanting the AF160FC which supports the flash automation protocol --P-TTL but by documentation is backwards compatible with TTL.

I was taken aback by a couple limitations of the unit "The correct flash output is obtained in the P-TTL auto mode only when the flash unit is used with auto-focus Lenses."

Another.--- "Confirm that the subject is within the effective flash range......."

Well guess what---there is a table in the book, and the effective flash range is never less than .10m --- and this is at F32.
Ifyou use the program mode the the lens will default to f/5.6 where at ISO 200 the minimum range is .25m.
Click photo to expand -- expand new window for full screen

My impression is that the flash does pick up the focal length of the lens and takes this into consideration in setting the exposure as I get about the same exposure results with the F50 macro as I do with the FA100 macro.

What I have still NOT figured out is whether you actually have to use the auto focus---or even have it usable. ---- As never content with the focus range of my maco lenses, I have a set of Kenko extension tubes---- which provide the "steel ball" settings to the camera, but do not have a screw in them for auto focus. the above photo is of a brass lapel pin, the round part of which is 5/8"s of an inch in diameter
which I photographed with the FA100, and a 36mm extension tube at F32 with ISO 400---- I also turned off half of the flash so it only flashed on the '2011' side of the pin. This provided the shadows and hi-lighting on the bottom of the pin.

If you leave off the tubes, you can get too close for the flash to adjust accurately 'per the book' with a 50mm macro, but with a reasonable amount of knob fiddling you can I think get correct exposures with some overriding required with the extension tubes with either lens.
I did notice some unusual shadowing when I stacked all 3 extension tubes (total of extra 68mm extension) but you are also somewhat closer
I think than the .10m minimum distance.---your subject is almost in the ring.

Just some preliminary thoughts. I may not even be right on everything here.... comments are welcome---and profoundly if anyone else has used this flash unit.

**Digitalis** · 08-28-2011, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by rvannatta

Well guess what---there is a table in the book, and the effective flash range is never less than .10m --- and this is at F32. Ifyou use the program mode the the lens will default to f/5.6 where at ISO 200 the minimum range is .25m.

I will point out that all macro lenses lose some light at 1:1 magnification - such high magnifications come at a price. The GN tables provided in the booklet with the pentax AF160FC ringflash do not take this into account due to the variable nature of this effect however, P-TTL does take this into account. Subject to flash distances matter a great deal with ringflash, I personally use the Pentax FA*200mm f/4 ED macro and the Sigma 180mm f/3.5 APO EX Macro - these long macro lenses enable you to be physically further away from your subject at 1:1 magnification and give you more freedom over how the subject is lit.

Originally posted by rvannatta

What I have still NOT figured out is whether you actually have to use the auto focus---or even have it usable

you can use A series manual focus lenses* with P-TTL on the AF160FC ringflash. As a matter of fact the LED modelling lights on the AF160FC ring flash are very useful as a source of illumination in dark surroundings - this feature is also useful for AF assist.

*as long as the aperture is on the "A" setting - though personally I don't trust P-TTL, I use my ringflash manually.

rvannatta · 08-28-2011, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

I will point out that all macro lenses lose some light at 1:1 magnification - such high magnifications come at a price. The GN tables provided in the booklet with the pentax AF160FC ringflash do not take this into account due to the variable nature of this effect however, P-TTL does take this into account. Subject to flash distances matter a great deal with ringflash, I personally use the Pentax FA*200mm f/4 ED macro and the Sigma 180mm f/3.5 APO EX Macro - these long macro lenses enable you to be physically further away from your subject at 1:1 magnification and give you more freedom over how the subject is lit.

you can use A series manual focus lenses* with P-TTL on the AF160FC ringflash. As a matter of fact the LED modelling lights on the AF160FC ring flash are very useful as a source of illumination in dark surroundings - this feature is also useful for AF assist.

*as long as the aperture is on the "A" setting - though personally I don't trust P-TTL, I use my ringflash manually.

Well, I generally used my 50mm macro with the AF080C ring because it didn't have the horsepower for greater distances, but this more powerful flash has quickly given me the urge to use a longer lens.

I'm on to the light fall off issue. Somewhere in the drawer I have a bellows setup and a lens reversing ring and the light goes away fairly quickly.

08-27-2011, 09:21 PM	#1
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	AF160FC flash. Someone had to buy one of these so see how they worked. So I did. I"ve been a long time owner of an AF080C ringflash so the creatures are not new to me. I've now fiddled with it for a couple of days still trying to figure out what to expect when connected with a K5. Getting the exposure right with flash photography is a real beast. I've owned Older model AF080C for around 20 years and when I started with it I was using a K2 which did NOT support TTL. This meant for a lot of guessing on exposures, and then waiting a week to get your film back to see if you guessed right. IT was not a happy situation. Ultimately, I bought a film camera that supported TTL and was a fairly happy camper. Then, of course the digital world came along and TTL still worked with the istD but when I got the K10D and then the K5 is was back to the old. At least I didn't have to wait a week for the film to come back before knowing how to adjust the exposure, but the basic problem with the AF080C was that in manual mode it was just wrong for the K10D or the K5. If you used the 50mm Macro lens, you needed to insert a 4xND filter to keep from burning out the photos, and with the 100mm macro it tended not flash that far. This led me to wanting the AF160FC which supports the flash automation protocol --P-TTL but by documentation is backwards compatible with TTL. I was taken aback by a couple limitations of the unit "The correct flash output is obtained in the P-TTL auto mode only when the flash unit is used with auto-focus Lenses." Another.--- "Confirm that the subject is within the effective flash range......." Well guess what---there is a table in the book, and the effective flash range is never less than .10m --- and this is at F32. Ifyou use the program mode the the lens will default to f/5.6 where at ISO 200 the minimum range is .25m. Click photo to expand -- expand new window for full screen* My impression is that the flash does pick up the focal length of the lens and takes this into consideration in setting the exposure as I get about the same exposure results with the F50 macro as I do with the FA100 macro. What I have still NOT figured out is whether you actually have to use the auto focus---or even have it usable. ---- As never content with the focus range of my maco lenses, I have a set of Kenko extension tubes---- which provide the "steel ball" settings to the camera, but do not have a screw in them for auto focus. the above photo is of a brass lapel pin, the round part of which is 5/8"s of an inch in diameter which I photographed with the FA100, and a 36mm extension tube at F32 with ISO 400---- I also turned off half of the flash so it only flashed on the '2011' side of the pin. This provided the shadows and hi-lighting on the bottom of the pin. If you leave off the tubes, you can get too close for the flash to adjust accurately 'per the book' with a 50mm macro, but with a reasonable amount of knob fiddling you can I think get correct exposures with some overriding required with the extension tubes with either lens. I did notice some unusual shadowing when I stacked all 3 extension tubes (total of extra 68mm extension) but you are also somewhat closer I think than the .10m minimum distance.---your subject is almost in the ring. Just some preliminary thoughts. I may not even be right on everything here.... comments are welcome---and profoundly if anyone else has used this flash unit.

08-28-2011, 02:32 AM	#2
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by rvannatta Well guess what---there is a table in the book, and the effective flash range is never less than .10m --- and this is at F32. Ifyou use the program mode the the lens will default to f/5.6 where at ISO 200 the minimum range is .25m. I will point out that all macro lenses lose some light at 1:1 magnification - such high magnifications come at a price. The GN tables provided in the booklet with the pentax AF160FC ringflash do not take this into account due to the variable nature of this effect however, P-TTL *does* take this into account. Subject to flash distances matter a great deal with ringflash, I personally use the Pentax FA200mm f/4 ED macro and the Sigma 180mm f/3.5 APO EX Macro - these long macro lenses enable you to be physically further away from your subject at 1:1 magnification and give you more freedom over how the subject is lit. Originally posted by rvannatta What I have still NOT figured out is whether you actually have to use the auto focus---or even have it usable you can use A series manual focus lenses with P-TTL on the AF160FC ringflash. As a matter of fact the LED modelling lights on the AF160FC ring flash are very useful as a source of illumination in dark surroundings - this feature is also useful for AF assist. as long as the aperture is on the "A" setting - though personally I don't trust P-TTL, I use my ringflash manually. Last edited by Digitalis; 08-28-2011 at 02:40 AM.*

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08-28-2011, 02:30 PM	#3
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181 Original Poster	Originally posted by Digitalis I will point out that all macro lenses lose some light at 1:1 magnification - such high magnifications come at a price. The GN tables provided in the booklet with the pentax AF160FC ringflash do not take this into account due to the variable nature of this effect however, P-TTL *does* take this into account. Subject to flash distances matter a great deal with ringflash, I personally use the Pentax FA200mm f/4 ED macro and the Sigma 180mm f/3.5 APO EX Macro - these long macro lenses enable you to be physically further away from your subject at 1:1 magnification and give you more freedom over how the subject is lit. you can use A series manual focus lenses with P-TTL on the AF160FC ringflash. As a matter of fact the LED modelling lights on the AF160FC ring flash are very useful as a source of illumination in dark surroundings - this feature is also useful for AF assist. *as long as the aperture is on the "A" setting - though personally I don't trust P-TTL, I use my ringflash manually. Well, I generally used my 50mm macro with the AF080C ring because it didn't have the horsepower for greater distances, but this more powerful flash has quickly given me the urge to use a longer lens. I'm on to the light fall off issue. Somewhere in the drawer I have a bellows setup and a lens reversing ring and the light goes away fairly quickly.