Which Flash suits my needs best?

Tomm · 12-07-2011, 06:57 AM

Hi!

For a long time I'm planning to buy a nice kit:

K5 body +17-55 WR kit lens
Tammy 28-75 f2.8
DA 55-300mm
Already have 50mm/f1.7 + 28mm/f2.8

At the moment I'm deciding which flash to buy but I found it hard to compare different models to my needs. I searched on different websites including The Definitive Guide - Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison .

Some relevant information:

I'm new with flashes.
It should work well with the K5 of course.
I want to start with just one flash mainly used for portrait and candid.
I would like to use it wireless, with and without a softbox.
After some time I want to buy a second flash that can work with the one I will buy in the first place.
It must be able to bounce of at ceilings and walls
pTTL (or something like that) would be very welcome.
Question: Most flashes can only work as a slave, is a master necessary or can I use my build-in flash for that?

EDIT: Budget is around 300 dollars at max. Prefer lower though

I hope you guys can help me out with this one!

Many thanks!

Tom

Last edited by Tomm; 12-07-2011 at 07:07 AM.

SOldBear · 12-07-2011, 09:14 AM

Spend a bit more, get a Pentax AF540FGZ or a Metz 58AF-2 and don't look back.

I prefer the build of the Metz, but the Pentax's user interface is more user-friendly.

If $300 is the absolute max, get a used copy (Metz 58AF-2 is fairly new, used copies may be difficult to come by).

Tomm · 12-07-2011, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by SOldBear

Spend a bit more, get a Pentax AF540FGZ or a Metz 58AF-2 and don't look back.

I prefer the build of the Metz, but the Pentax's user interface is more user-friendly.

If $300 is the absolute max, get a used copy (Metz 58AF-2 is fairly new, used copies may be difficult to come by).

Thanks for your reply! Do I really need these top segment flashes for my intended purposes?

In Holland these flashes are 300 Euro at least which is around 400 USD. So I already need to take an extra price when I say 300 Dollars because in Holland everything is more expensive unfortunately!!

Nass · 12-07-2011, 09:34 AM

The 540 swivels and you can disable the timeout, the 360 can only shoot forward. For bouncing off walls you'll find the swivel handy. Mischien een gebruikte?

Ron Kruger · 12-07-2011, 09:35 AM

For all the things you want to do, you'll find the 540 much more accurate, versatile and powerful than the 360. I made the mistake of trying to save some money with the 360. It's performance isn't bad, but the build quality is terrible. Had the litterally tape up the battery door and the mounting plate broke. It's only good as a slave now. The Metz 58 is good as well, but it's best if you know something about manual flash opperations, so I suggest the 540 designed specifically for Pentax cameras.

**maxfield_photo** · 12-07-2011, 09:52 AM

My vote would also be for Metz, but you might consider the 50AF-1 as a less expensive alternative*. The Sigma 610 Super looks good on paper, and the price is right, but I've never held one to be able to comment on the build quality. It does lack auto thyristor mode, so it can't be used with pre TTL film cameras except in manual mode (if you are concerned with backwards compatibility). It also lacks a bounce card, but an index card and a rubber band work wonders.

To answer your question, you can use your pop-up flash as the master as long as the slave unit can see the pulse, except in HSS mode (this is a limitation of Pentax digital cameras, the pop-up, the hotshoe, and the PC socket all go inactive above 1/180th). Also, one word of caution about the Metz flashes that may or may not concern you, as of the current firmware version, they cannot be triggered as slaves by manual flashes, this means they do not work with studio lights, only other pTTL flashes or the pop-up will work.

EDIT *The 50AF-1 cannot be used as a pTTL master though, so when you go to buy a second flash, it will need to perform that function.

Tomm · 12-07-2011, 10:03 AM

Yeah, I search for a flash that swivels so the 360 won't work for me than.

But the pentax 540, I'm not sure.. It is the most expensive model but still the build seems to be terrible reading the reviews. But maybe I should look for a second hand model indeed!

Maxfield, you are talking about the Metz 48. Is the Metz 50 AF-1 good as well/ better? It's 100 Euro cheaper than the 58. Thanks for the tip, probably I'm not going to work with studio flashes but I will take it into consideration. If the flash is in a softbox, is it able to see the pulse?

**maxfield_photo** · 12-07-2011, 10:31 AM

Yes, sorry, I changeced it when i realized that the 48 had been discontinued, but the Metz 48, 50, or even 44 would be good, new or used. Metz only puts their name on quality gear.

Adam · 12-07-2011, 11:15 AM

The metz 58 is arguably better than the pentax 540:
Metz mecablitz 58 AF-2 TTL Shoe Mount Flash MZ 58327PS B&H Photo
Metz 58 AF-1 Flash - Review

Tomm · 12-07-2011, 11:41 AM

Awesome, many thanks all!

At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control?

And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash?

Tomm · 12-08-2011, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Tomm

Awesome, many thanks all!

At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control?

And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash?

Anyone?

SOldBear · 12-08-2011, 01:36 PM

As a rule, I don't buy any flash that does not have auto mode (thyristor). A thyristor flash is less likely to become completely outdated (I still have some expensive Canon and Minolta flashes that are next to useless), and can be conveniently used on cameras of different brands.

I'd rather have a flash with auto and no p-TTL than a flash with p-TTL and no auto. In fact, I have 2 copies of Pentax AF540FGZ, but my "go to" flashes are several copies of Metz 54MZ-4.

dave_walton · 12-08-2011, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Tomm

Awesome, many thanks all!

At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control?

And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash?

The 44 is lower powered and lacks High Speed Sync. I looked into this recently and ended up getting the Metz 50 AF-1.

I think when I'm ready for a second flash I'm going to get a Yongnuo YN-560 although this is manual only.

**maxfield_photo** · 12-08-2011, 04:20 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tomm

At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control? And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash?

If you can find a good deal on a used Metz 48AF, I think that flash will meet all of your needs, and give you room to grow. If you want a new flash with a warranty, the Metz 50 is the way to go. The Metz 44 is still a very good budget option, but it lacks some of the power and controls of the higher two models, and like the 48, you probably won't be able to find one with a warranty if that is important.

To answer your other question, any pTTL flash will allow you to use a softbox as long as you are able to point the flash's sensor at the camera. If you decide to break your piggy bank and buy the Metz 58 though, it can use a softbox without being able to see the camera since it has a thyristor to sense it's own light output, (the softbox can't block the sensor though, that's the only catch) and as others have stated, it can be used with ANY camera of any brand past, present, or future.

IIGQ4U · 12-08-2011, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Adam

The metz 58 is arguably better than the pentax 540:
Metz mecablitz 58 AF-2 TTL Shoe Mount Flash MZ 58327PS B&H Photo
Metz 58 AF-1 Flash - Review

The Metz 58 AF-2 is definitely the better flash over the AF540. The Metz PTTL is excellent, it utilizes a secondary fill flash to avoid dark eyes when bounced, has a more power, is better built, has a faster recycle time and retails for $80 less than the AF540. I was recently in your position and selected the better built flash with enhanced features and lower price point (Metz 58 AF-2).

12-07-2011, 06:57 AM	#1
Tomm Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The Netherlands Photos: Albums Posts: 62	Which Flash suits my needs best? Hi! For a long time I'm planning to buy a nice kit: K5 body +17-55 WR kit lens Tammy 28-75 f2.8 DA 55-300mm Already have 50mm/f1.7 + 28mm/f2.8 At the moment I'm deciding which flash to buy but I found it hard to compare different models to my needs. I searched on different websites including The Definitive Guide - Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison . Some relevant information: I'm new with flashes. It should work well with the K5 of course. I want to start with just one flash mainly used for portrait and candid. I would like to use it wireless, with and without a softbox. After some time I want to buy a second flash that can work with the one I will buy in the first place. It must be able to bounce of at ceilings and walls pTTL (or something like that) would be very welcome. Question: Most flashes can only work as a slave, is a master necessary or can I use my build-in flash for that? EDIT: Budget is around 300 dollars at max. Prefer lower though I hope you guys can help me out with this one! Many thanks! Tom Last edited by Tomm; 12-07-2011 at 07:07 AM.

12-07-2011, 09:52 AM	#6
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	My vote would also be for Metz, but you might consider the 50AF-1 as a less expensive alternative. The Sigma 610 Super looks good on paper, and the price is right, but I've never held one to be able to comment on the build quality. It does lack auto thyristor mode, so it can't be used with pre TTL film cameras except in manual mode (if you are concerned with backwards compatibility). It also lacks a bounce card, but an index card and a rubber band work wonders. To answer your question, you can use your pop-up flash as the master as long as the slave unit can see the pulse, except in HSS mode (this is a limitation of Pentax digital cameras, the pop-up, the hotshoe, and the PC socket all go inactive above 1/180th). Also, one word of caution about the Metz flashes that may or may not concern you, as of the current firmware version, they cannot be triggered as slaves by manual flashes, this means they do not work with studio lights, only other pTTL flashes or the pop-up will work. EDIT The 50AF-1 cannot be used as a pTTL master though, so when you go to buy a second flash, it will need to perform that function. Last edited by maxfield_photo; 12-07-2011 at 09:59 AM.

12-07-2011, 11:15 AM	#9
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	The metz 58 is arguably better than the pentax 540: Metz mecablitz 58 AF-2 TTL Shoe Mount Flash MZ 58327PS B&H Photo Metz 58 AF-1 Flash - Review Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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12-07-2011, 09:14 AM	#2
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Spend a bit more, get a Pentax AF540FGZ or a Metz 58AF-2 and don't look back. I prefer the build of the Metz, but the Pentax's user interface is more user-friendly. If $300 is the absolute max, get a used copy (Metz 58AF-2 is fairly new, used copies may be difficult to come by).

12-07-2011, 09:22 AM	#3
Tomm Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The Netherlands Photos: Albums Posts: 62 Original Poster	Originally posted by SOldBear Spend a bit more, get a Pentax AF540FGZ or a Metz 58AF-2 and don't look back. I prefer the build of the Metz, but the Pentax's user interface is more user-friendly. If $300 is the absolute max, get a used copy (Metz 58AF-2 is fairly new, used copies may be difficult to come by). Thanks for your reply! Do I really need these top segment flashes for my intended purposes? In Holland these flashes are 300 Euro at least which is around 400 USD. So I already need to take an extra price when I say 300 Dollars because in Holland everything is more expensive unfortunately!!

12-07-2011, 09:34 AM	#4
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402	The 540 swivels and you can disable the timeout, the 360 can only shoot forward. For bouncing off walls you'll find the swivel handy. Mischien een gebruikte?

12-07-2011, 09:35 AM	#5
Ron Kruger Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 534	For all the things you want to do, you'll find the 540 much more accurate, versatile and powerful than the 360. I made the mistake of trying to save some money with the 360. It's performance isn't bad, but the build quality is terrible. Had the litterally tape up the battery door and the mounting plate broke. It's only good as a slave now. The Metz 58 is good as well, but it's best if you know something about manual flash opperations, so I suggest the 540 designed specifically for Pentax cameras.

12-07-2011, 10:03 AM	#7
Tomm Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The Netherlands Photos: Albums Posts: 62 Original Poster	Yeah, I search for a flash that swivels so the 360 won't work for me than. But the pentax 540, I'm not sure.. It is the most expensive model but still the build seems to be terrible reading the reviews. But maybe I should look for a second hand model indeed! Maxfield, you are talking about the Metz 48. Is the Metz 50 AF-1 good as well/ better? It's 100 Euro cheaper than the 58. Thanks for the tip, probably I'm not going to work with studio flashes but I will take it into consideration. If the flash is in a softbox, is it able to see the pulse?

12-07-2011, 10:31 AM	#8
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Yes, sorry, I changeced it when i realized that the 48 had been discontinued, but the Metz 48, 50, or even 44 would be good, new or used. Metz only puts their name on quality gear.

12-07-2011, 11:41 AM	#10
Tomm Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The Netherlands Photos: Albums Posts: 62 Original Poster	Awesome, many thanks all! At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control? And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash?

12-08-2011, 12:49 PM	#11
Tomm Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The Netherlands Photos: Albums Posts: 62 Original Poster	Originally posted by Tomm Awesome, many thanks all! At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control? And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash? Anyone?

12-08-2011, 01:36 PM	#12
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	As a rule, I don't buy any flash that does not have auto mode (thyristor). A thyristor flash is less likely to become completely outdated (I still have some expensive Canon and Minolta flashes that are next to useless), and can be conveniently used on cameras of different brands. I'd rather have a flash with auto and no p-TTL than a flash with p-TTL and no auto. In fact, I have 2 copies of Pentax AF540FGZ, but my "go to" flashes are several copies of Metz 54MZ-4.

12-08-2011, 03:36 PM	#13
dave_walton New Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 22	Originally posted by Tomm Awesome, many thanks all! At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control? And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash? The 44 is lower powered and lacks High Speed Sync. I looked into this recently and ended up getting the Metz 50 AF-1. I think when I'm ready for a second flash I'm going to get a Yongnuo YN-560 although this is manual only.

12-08-2011, 04:20 PM - 1 Like	#14
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Originally posted by Tomm At the moment I'm considering the Metz 44 vs. Metz 48 vs. Metz 50. Does anybody know what I will miss when I will buy the Metz 44 for instants. The Metz 44 doesn't have a lot of buttons, so is it suitable for manual control? And again: When I use my flash in a softbox as a slave. Is it able to see the light sign of the master (build-in) flash? If you can find a good deal on a used Metz 48AF, I think that flash will meet all of your needs, and give you room to grow. If you want a new flash with a warranty, the Metz 50 is the way to go. The Metz 44 is still a very good budget option, but it lacks some of the power and controls of the higher two models, and like the 48, you probably won't be able to find one with a warranty if that is important. To answer your other question, any pTTL flash will allow you to use a softbox as long as you are able to point the flash's sensor at the camera. If you decide to break your piggy bank and buy the Metz 58 though, it can use a softbox without being able to see the camera since it has a thyristor to sense it's own light output, (the softbox can't block the sensor though, that's the only catch) and as others have stated, it can be used with ANY camera of any brand past, present, or future.

12-08-2011, 09:41 PM	#15
IIGQ4U Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: La Jolla, CA. Posts: 262	Originally posted by Adam The metz 58 is arguably better than the pentax 540: Metz mecablitz 58 AF-2 TTL Shoe Mount Flash MZ 58327PS B&H Photo Metz 58 AF-1 Flash - Review The Metz 58 AF-2 is definitely the better flash over the AF540. The Metz PTTL is excellent, it utilizes a secondary fill flash to avoid dark eyes when bounced, has a more power, is better built, has a faster recycle time and retails for $80 less than the AF540. I was recently in your position and selected the better built flash with enhanced features and lower price point (Metz 58 AF-2).