I need a flash...but know nothing about them!!

LIGirl · 12-15-2011, 12:23 PM

Hello Everybody!

It's been awhile since I've posted on these forums...but, I'm having trouble! I have read about 1 million flash posts today, and I can't quite find this information I'm looking for. It's probably that I just don't know enough

I have a k-x. I cannot stand the horrible, sharp shadows created when i use the on-camera flash on my indoor shots! So, I want to buy a flash. I was trying to keep the price around $100 or so...but, I think that won't get me what I need! I want a flash that is simple to use...such as, pull it out of the bag, slide it on the camera...take pictures. I have so much trouble just keeping the camera controls straight, I can't imagine adding something else to keep track of! Is there such a flash that isn't $300+ dollars?

**Ash** · 12-15-2011, 12:29 PM

You need a P-TTL compatible flash. None of those go for under $100, but there are some basic (entry-level) P-TTL flashes around that go for less than $300, such as those offered by Sigma and Metz. Check mattdm's definitive flash resource for more info on these flashes and shop around, particularly on this forum's marketplace and second-hand vendors for good deals.

I'm not sure an M or A flash would satisfy your needs, although they are cheap and just as versatile when you learn how light works in photography and aren't afraid to set your own flash intensity levels and exposure settings on the camera.

SpecialK · 12-15-2011, 12:50 PM

If you just point a flash at someone, different flashes makes little difference :-) You need to bounce the light off something (hopefully white) to make the size of the flash beam larger. Some of those things include portable clip on 8 x 10 size white cards or plastic "whale tails" in a holder (somewhat unwieldy), or a wall or ceiling (not portable). Bouncing will reduce the output power, so you will want a flash with a high guide number (GN).

**Ash** · 12-15-2011, 01:00 PM

I agree - learning how to change the 'quality' of light for the effect you need for each portrait shot is highly advantageous. Online tutorials on bounce flash can help you appreciate this very useful skill, but then you'll need a flash that has a bounce and swivel head - they're of the more expensive variety.

LIGirl · 12-15-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by SpecialK

If you just point a flash at someone, different flashes makes little difference :-)

LOL...I agree, SpecialK!

I guess I wasn't super clear...I meant, in a cadid-photo type situation, such as a family party, etc. where I want to be able to take pics as the moment appears. As an example, I'm sitting on the couch (camera close by, of course!), I look up and my brother and his girlfriend are sitting close and looking super adorable...I take a picture...
Anyway, it seems like I'm going to need a pTTL flash? What would be your suggestions...keeping price in mind?
Oh, and thanks everybody for your help so far! I really appreciate it!

demp10 · 12-15-2011, 01:21 PM

At that price range, your best bet will be to get a powerful flash with Auto modes (e.g. you set the camera at Av or X, set the aperture to one that will give you good DOF and exposure, set the flash to that Auto F-stop and shoot). Some, if they are dedicated to Pentax, will set the aperture automatically.

The flash must be able to tilt and if you take vertical shots to swivel also, so you can bounce it of walls/ceilings. You can also use a flash bracket to get the flash physically off the camera or the many modifiers that can be attached to soften/bounce the light.

There are several used flashes that will do that. From my personal experience, Vivitar 285HV comes to mind (although no swivel, but you can get the sensor cord for the camera and point the flash anywhere) or if you don't mind the weight, a Pentax AF400T (the potato masher) will be great.

If you are getting an older flash, make sure that its voltage is safe to use with your camera, otherwise it will fry it.

**Ash** · 12-15-2011, 01:22 PM

I'd suggest a second hand Sigma EF-500 DG Super or Metz AF-48 if you can find one here or eBay. They're very versatile, and all you'd need. Pentax's AF540FGZ is better but in the order of $300-$350 second hand. The others are significantly cheaper. But to be honest, if you took a little time to learn about manual flash exposure, you can flip your K-x to M mode with an old manual flash, set the right things for your conditions and fire away for consistent results every shot - which will cost you *a lot* less ($50-$100). Anyway, the choice is yours. I like P-TTL given I have the choice of going automatic when desired, and it seems to work well for me:

SOldBear · 12-15-2011, 01:40 PM - **1 Like**

For about $50, get a good used copy of Pentax AF280T (check KEH). Learn to use it in auto mode.

Even later on when you get a "better" flash, you can still use the Pentax AF280T as a second/backup unit. The $50 is not wasted.

Raffwal · 12-15-2011, 01:40 PM - **1 Like**

The Definitive Guide - Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison

Ecaterin · 12-15-2011, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by LIGirl

Hello Everybody!

It's been awhile since I've posted on these forums...but, I'm having trouble! I have read about 1 million flash posts today, and I can't quite find this information I'm looking for. It's probably that I just don't know enough

I have a k-x. I cannot stand the horrible, sharp shadows created when i use the on-camera flash on my indoor shots! So, I want to buy a flash. I was trying to keep the price around $100 or so...but, I think that won't get me what I need! I want a flash that is simple to use...such as, pull it out of the bag, slide it on the camera...take pictures. I have so much trouble just keeping the camera controls straight, I can't imagine adding something else to keep track of! Is there such a flash that isn't $300+ dollars?

One really inexpensive solution worth checking out is the Lightscoop (30 bucks). This thing takes your on-camera flash and bounces it up, so you can bounce the light off a ceiling or wall (which is what you'll have to do with a big flash anyway - direct flash will *always* give you harsh shadows). Presto - instantly diffused light, very inexpensively.

It looks a little gimmicky, but it's actually quite effective. And hey, TTL is built in, since you're using your on-camera flash anyway :P Not only is it a cheaper way to start playing with bounce-flash lighting, it has an advantage in size & weight. I keep a Lightscoop in my camera bag all the time - it weighs nothing, it's small, might as well have it when I need it

demp10 · 12-15-2011, 02:24 PM

The main problem with the build-in flash is its power. It is not strong enough for anything other that close ups. If you add any modifiers it gets worse. You'll be forced to use very wide apertures or high ISO to compensate. Depending on your shooting style that may be OK but for others it will not be acceptable. Most lenses are best if stopped down 2-3 F-stops and given a choice, ISO 100 is always better than anything higher.

You can use the build-in for some creative effects, but there is no comparison to a powerful external flash.

**ramseybuckeye** · 12-15-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by SOldBear

For about $50, get a good used copy of Pentax AF280T (check KEH). Learn to use it in auto mode.

Even later on when you get a "better" flash, you can still use the Pentax AF280T as a second/backup unit. The $50 is not wasted.

I agree with SOldbear, I read some of his (and some other members') posts about flashes and ordered an AF280T from KEH for about $61 with shipping. I just got it and I am pleased. I don't have a lot of flash experience, but the basics seem very easy with this flash. You can also download the manual at the Pentax web site. Mine did not come with a diffuser, so I'll probably buy some kind of diffuser or a mini soft box, or make a diffuser.

jolepp · 12-15-2011, 05:53 PM

+1 for the AF280T : the next best thing to a pttl flash (in auto mode using its integrated light sensor), tilt+swivel for bouncing, compact, GN might not be the highest but should be perfectly adequate (especially with the K-x where compensating a bit for that with higher ISO should be no problem).

Nuff · 12-15-2011, 08:21 PM

First thing, if you don't like harsh shadows you need to learn about light before you pick up any flash. TTL, Auro or what not. It's going to make little difference if you don't understand light. I suggest you get Light: Science and Magic by Fil Hunter & Steven Biver & Paul Fuqua.

There are other books, but none of them explain light as well as this book.

It will not help much if you have the latest and most expensive wiz bang flash, if you don't know how to make the most of it.

L33tGreg · 12-16-2011, 07:51 AM

AF280T is okay, but a little weak. There are plenty of old auto flashes on ebay from vivitar and sunpak that can be had for less than $50 that will support a builtin auto mode and manual modes with tilt and swivel heads. Another thing to consider is possible putting the flash on a bracket off camera or even further off with a cable or radio trigger.

12-15-2011, 12:23 PM	#1
LIGirl New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 22	I need a flash...but know nothing about them!! Hello Everybody! It's been awhile since I've posted on these forums...but, I'm having trouble! I have read about 1 million flash posts today, and I can't quite find this information I'm looking for. It's probably that I just don't know enough I have a k-x. I cannot stand the horrible, sharp shadows created when i use the on-camera flash on my indoor shots! So, I want to buy a flash. I was trying to keep the price around $100 or so...but, I think that won't get me what I need! I want a flash that is simple to use...such as, pull it out of the bag, slide it on the camera...take pictures. I have so much trouble just keeping the camera controls straight, I can't imagine adding something else to keep track of! Is there such a flash that isn't $300+ dollars?

12-15-2011, 05:53 PM	#13
jolepp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Photos: Albums Posts: 3,196	+1 for the AF280T : the next best thing to a pttl flash (in auto mode using its integrated light sensor), tilt+swivel for bouncing, compact, GN might not be the highest but should be perfectly adequate (especially with the K-x where compensating a bit for that with higher ISO should be no problem). Last edited by jolepp; 12-16-2011 at 03:43 AM. Reason: rephrase

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12-15-2011, 12:29 PM	#2
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	You need a P-TTL compatible flash. None of those go for under $100, but there are some basic (entry-level) P-TTL flashes around that go for less than $300, such as those offered by Sigma and Metz. Check mattdm's definitive flash resource for more info on these flashes and shop around, particularly on this forum's marketplace and second-hand vendors for good deals. I'm not sure an M or A flash would satisfy your needs, although they are cheap and just as versatile when you learn how light works in photography and aren't afraid to set your own flash intensity levels and exposure settings on the camera.

12-15-2011, 12:50 PM	#3
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	If you just point a flash at someone, different flashes makes little difference :-) You need to bounce the light off something (hopefully white) to make the size of the flash beam larger. Some of those things include portable clip on 8 x 10 size white cards or plastic "whale tails" in a holder (somewhat unwieldy), or a wall or ceiling (not portable). Bouncing will reduce the output power, so you will want a flash with a high guide number (GN).

12-15-2011, 01:00 PM	#4
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	I agree - learning how to change the 'quality' of light for the effect you need for each portrait shot is highly advantageous. Online tutorials on bounce flash can help you appreciate this very useful skill, but then you'll need a flash that has a bounce and swivel head - they're of the more expensive variety.

12-15-2011, 01:16 PM	#5
LIGirl New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 22 Original Poster	Originally posted by SpecialK If you just point a flash at someone, different flashes makes little difference :-) LOL...I agree, SpecialK! I guess I wasn't super clear...I meant, in a cadid-photo type situation, such as a family party, etc. where I want to be able to take pics as the moment appears. As an example, I'm sitting on the couch (camera close by, of course!), I look up and my brother and his girlfriend are sitting close and looking super adorable...I take a picture... Anyway, it seems like I'm going to need a pTTL flash? What would be your suggestions...keeping price in mind? Oh, and thanks everybody for your help so far! I really appreciate it!

12-15-2011, 01:21 PM	#6
demp10 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Atlanta Photos: Albums Posts: 602	At that price range, your best bet will be to get a powerful flash with Auto modes (e.g. you set the camera at Av or X, set the aperture to one that will give you good DOF and exposure, set the flash to that Auto F-stop and shoot). Some, if they are dedicated to Pentax, will set the aperture automatically. The flash must be able to tilt and if you take vertical shots to swivel also, so you can bounce it of walls/ceilings. You can also use a flash bracket to get the flash physically off the camera or the many modifiers that can be attached to soften/bounce the light. There are several used flashes that will do that. From my personal experience, Vivitar 285HV comes to mind (although no swivel, but you can get the sensor cord for the camera and point the flash anywhere) or if you don't mind the weight, a Pentax AF400T (the potato masher) will be great. If you are getting an older flash, make sure that its voltage is safe to use with your camera, otherwise it will fry it.

12-15-2011, 01:22 PM	#7
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	I'd suggest a second hand Sigma EF-500 DG Super or Metz AF-48 if you can find one here or eBay. They're very versatile, and all you'd need. Pentax's AF540FGZ is better but in the order of $300-$350 second hand. The others are significantly cheaper. But to be honest, if you took a little time to learn about manual flash exposure, you can flip your K-x to M mode with an old manual flash, set the right things for your conditions and fire away for consistent results every shot - which will cost you a lot less ($50-$100). Anyway, the choice is yours. I like P-TTL given I have the choice of going automatic when desired, and it seems to work well for me:

12-15-2011, 01:40 PM - 1 Like	#8
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	For about $50, get a good used copy of Pentax AF280T (check KEH). Learn to use it in auto mode. Even later on when you get a "better" flash, you can still use the Pentax AF280T as a second/backup unit. The $50 is not wasted.

12-15-2011, 01:40 PM - 1 Like	#9
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	The Definitive Guide - Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison

12-15-2011, 01:42 PM	#10
Ecaterin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 723	Originally posted by LIGirl Hello Everybody! It's been awhile since I've posted on these forums...but, I'm having trouble! I have read about 1 million flash posts today, and I can't quite find this information I'm looking for. It's probably that I just don't know enough I have a k-x. I cannot stand the horrible, sharp shadows created when i use the on-camera flash on my indoor shots! So, I want to buy a flash. I was trying to keep the price around $100 or so...but, I think that won't get me what I need! I want a flash that is simple to use...such as, pull it out of the bag, slide it on the camera...take pictures. I have so much trouble just keeping the camera controls straight, I can't imagine adding something else to keep track of! Is there such a flash that isn't $300+ dollars? One really inexpensive solution worth checking out is the Lightscoop (30 bucks). This thing takes your on-camera flash and bounces it up, so you can bounce the light off a ceiling or wall (which is what you'll have to do with a big flash anyway - direct flash will always give you harsh shadows). Presto - instantly diffused light, very inexpensively. It looks a little gimmicky, but it's actually quite effective. And hey, TTL is built in, since you're using your on-camera flash anyway :P Not only is it a cheaper way to start playing with bounce-flash lighting, it has an advantage in size & weight. I keep a Lightscoop in my camera bag all the time - it weighs nothing, it's small, might as well have it when I need it

12-15-2011, 02:24 PM	#11
demp10 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Atlanta Photos: Albums Posts: 602	The main problem with the build-in flash is its power. It is not strong enough for anything other that close ups. If you add any modifiers it gets worse. You'll be forced to use very wide apertures or high ISO to compensate. Depending on your shooting style that may be OK but for others it will not be acceptable. Most lenses are best if stopped down 2-3 F-stops and given a choice, ISO 100 is always better than anything higher. You can use the build-in for some creative effects, but there is no comparison to a powerful external flash.

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12-15-2011, 05:28 PM	#12
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,291	Originally posted by SOldBear For about $50, get a good used copy of Pentax AF280T (check KEH). Learn to use it in auto mode. Even later on when you get a "better" flash, you can still use the Pentax AF280T as a second/backup unit. The $50 is not wasted. I agree with SOldbear, I read some of his (and some other members') posts about flashes and ordered an AF280T from KEH for about $61 with shipping. I just got it and I am pleased. I don't have a lot of flash experience, but the basics seem very easy with this flash. You can also download the manual at the Pentax web site. Mine did not come with a diffuser, so I'll probably buy some kind of diffuser or a mini soft box, or make a diffuser.

12-15-2011, 08:21 PM	#14
Nuff Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sydney Posts: 671	First thing, if you don't like harsh shadows you need to learn about light before you pick up any flash. TTL, Auro or what not. It's going to make little difference if you don't understand light. I suggest you get Light: Science and Magic by Fil Hunter & Steven Biver & Paul Fuqua. There are other books, but none of them explain light as well as this book. It will not help much if you have the latest and most expensive wiz bang flash, if you don't know how to make the most of it.

12-16-2011, 07:51 AM	#15
L33tGreg Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Charleston, SC Photos: Gallery Posts: 369	AF280T is okay, but a little weak. There are plenty of old auto flashes on ebay from vivitar and sunpak that can be had for less than $50 that will support a builtin auto mode and manual modes with tilt and swivel heads. Another thing to consider is possible putting the flash on a bracket off camera or even further off with a cable or radio trigger.