Using P-TTL & Non P-TTL Flashes Together

reivax · 01-12-2012, 11:36 PM

I've had a Metz 50 P-TTL flash for a little while now and I just happened upon a Promaster Electronic Flash FTD 5700 (with FTA 5000 AF module).

I haven't gotten the Promaster yet, but I would like to use it along with the Metz 50.

What options do I have for using these two together? I'm assuming I can't use the Promaster wirelessly, but will it attach and work properly on my Kr? From the info I could find on it, it seems to work only with non-digital cameras? This is one of the few places I was able to find info on the Promaster Promaster FTD 5700 High Power Electronic Flash

Will I need to get a trigger to use these two together? Is it recommended to use them together?

Thanks again guys.

Coeurdechene · 01-13-2012, 06:04 AM

you should look at the output voltage of the thing...if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector, or something like the cactus V5..don't sync through pc chord without a voltage protector or you may fry the camera.
Use the both in manual mode (p-ttl sucks because of the preflashes so you should learn how to use manual either way)...

options: either you buy a safesync and use the promaster either on top or through pc chord (WITH safe sync!) and the metz as slave (it'll flash when it "sees" the promaster flash).
OR you get something like the cactus V5.

bdery · 01-13-2012, 06:06 AM

I don't know if the Promaster can be used as a slave flash, if that's the case your Metz could trigger it (in manual mode for the Promaster, in that case). You could also get radio triggers like the reliable and inexpensive Yongnuo YN-04 II (got them, love them!)

However, there is one important problem with this : if you use PTTL, the camera and Metz will assume they are the only sources of illumination, and will fire accordingly. When the Promaster also fires, exposure will be messed up. So your best solution, if you want to use a multi-flash setup, is to get one YN-04 transmitter and two receivers, and then control each flash manually (along with the camera). PTTL with additional flashes will not work well, it's not designed for this.

Of course the relevance of that last solution depends on the level of manual controls of your flashes. For instance my Sigma 530 ST has only full and 1/16 power, so it would not be a good choice for manual flash. My Pentax 500 FTZ (TTL, not PTTL) has 6 levels of power adjustment, much nicer.

reivax · 01-13-2012, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Coeurdechene

you should look at the output voltage of the thing...if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector, or something like the cactus V5..don't sync through pc chord without a voltage protector or you may fry the camera.
Use the both in manual mode (p-ttl sucks because of the preflashes so you should learn how to use manual either way)...

options: either you buy a safesync and use the promaster either on top or through pc chord (WITH safe sync!) and the metz as slave (it'll flash when it "sees" the promaster flash).
OR you get something like the cactus V5.

How do I find out the voltage? I don't think the flash comes with a manual.

Would something like this take care of the problems? Amazon.com: CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 Channel Wireless Trigger for External Speelights with 1 Trigger and 2 Receivers (NPT-04+extra receiver): Camera & Photo

bdery · 01-13-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Coeurdechene

.if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector,

Pentax cameras can bear 12 volts.

Originally posted by reivax

How do I find out the voltage? I don't think the flash comes with a manual.

Get a multimeter. Power up the flash at full power, discharge it, repeat. Then place your multimeter so it touches the center pin on the base of the flash and the contact on the side (above the hotshoe plate). Look a the voltage. Then, still keeping contact, fire the flash once again and look at the peak value you read while the flash recharges.

Both the fully charged value and the peak should be below 12 volts for safe use. If it's above and you want to use it remotely, your best bet is to get a cheap optical trigger (5-10$ on dealextreme) since those are not worried by high voltages.

SOldBear · 01-13-2012, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Coeurdechene

...if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector

Originally posted by bdery

Pentax cameras can bear 12 volts.

Where do you folks get this piece of info from?

reivax · 01-13-2012, 04:21 PM

Thanks. I will try it out as soon as I can.

Anvh · 01-13-2012, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by bdery

Pentax cameras can bear 12 volts.

I thought pentax has once said they were confirm with the standard and that is 24 volt so what is it?
Anyone has some hard proof?

SOldBear · 01-13-2012, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

I thought pentax has once said they were confirm with the standard and that is 24 volt so what is it?
Anyone has some hard proof?

The question in my post above is purely rhetoric. I don't think there's been any official word from Pentax as how high is too high.

Except for Ricoh, who specifically states 24V in the GX200 User's Manual, I haven't been able to find any official statement from any camera maker.

There is a limit of 6V floating around. But from what I know, it came from an email message of a Canon technician in Europe (Germany if I remember it correctly) related to a particular model of EOS, hardly "official."

I've been using 24V as a limit for my K10Ds and K-7.

reivax · 01-13-2012, 09:00 PM

Just spent the last... I don't know how many hours looking up flash triggers. The one that caught my eye was the CowboyStudio NPT-04. By the time I was ready to hit order (On Amazon), it was out of stock. They still have it in other forms, but I would have to pay a lot more to get the trigger and two receivers. Since that seemingly great deal seems to be temporarily out of reach (Amazon has no idea when they'll have it back in stock), I guess I should be exploring more options. I looked into Yongnuo and Cactus (as others on this board have recommended) but I really don't know which one I should be looking into. Both brands seem to have many different models and I know I don't know enough about flash triggers to make a confident decision.

Do any of you guys have any recommendations?

bdery · 01-16-2012, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by SOldBear

Where do you folks get this piece of info from?

The internet

Originally posted by SOldBear

The question in my post above is purely rhetoric. I don't think there's been any official word from Pentax as how high is too high.

The closest to an official answer was a reply from a repairs clerck at some Pentax factory, saying the limit is 12V. That reply was posted on the forums here a while back.

Originally posted by reivax

Yongnuo and Cactus (as others on this board have recommended) but I really don't know which one I should be looking into. Both brands seem to have many different models and I know I don't know enough about flash triggers to make a confident decision.

Do any of you guys have any recommendations?

Yep. I've been using the Yongnuo YN-04 II for a while now, and it's excellent. Reliable, straightforward, simple to use. Two colleagues use them also and they love them.

I've read good things about the Cactus too, but I don't see what you would gain relative to the YN-04. If you don't want fancy controls like remote camera triggers with the transmitters, you don't need a higher-end model (and if you need remote triggers for the camera, buy a Yongnuo remote for 2$).

Make sure to get the YN-04 II, though, the II means your transmitter also has a hotshoe so you can mount a flash on the camera in addition to the transmitter itself.

01-12-2012, 11:36 PM	#1
reivax Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 826	Using P-TTL & Non P-TTL Flashes Together I've had a Metz 50 P-TTL flash for a little while now and I just happened upon a Promaster Electronic Flash FTD 5700 (with FTA 5000 AF module). I haven't gotten the Promaster yet, but I would like to use it along with the Metz 50. What options do I have for using these two together? I'm assuming I can't use the Promaster wirelessly, but will it attach and work properly on my Kr? From the info I could find on it, it seems to work only with non-digital cameras? This is one of the few places I was able to find info on the Promaster Promaster FTD 5700 High Power Electronic Flash Will I need to get a trigger to use these two together? Is it recommended to use them together? Thanks again guys.

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01-13-2012, 06:04 AM	#2
Coeurdechene Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: madrid Photos: Albums Posts: 833	you should look at the output voltage of the thing...if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector, or something like the cactus V5..don't sync through pc chord without a voltage protector or you may fry the camera. Use the both in manual mode (p-ttl sucks because of the preflashes so you should learn how to use manual either way)... options: either you buy a safesync and use the promaster either on top or through pc chord (WITH safe sync!) and the metz as slave (it'll flash when it "sees" the promaster flash). OR you get something like the cactus V5.

01-13-2012, 06:06 AM	#3
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	I don't know if the Promaster can be used as a slave flash, if that's the case your Metz could trigger it (in manual mode for the Promaster, in that case). You could also get radio triggers like the reliable and inexpensive Yongnuo YN-04 II (got them, love them!) However, there is one important problem with this : if you use PTTL, the camera and Metz will assume they are the only sources of illumination, and will fire accordingly. When the Promaster also fires, exposure will be messed up. So your best solution, if you want to use a multi-flash setup, is to get one YN-04 transmitter and two receivers, and then control each flash manually (along with the camera). PTTL with additional flashes will not work well, it's not designed for this. Of course the relevance of that last solution depends on the level of manual controls of your flashes. For instance my Sigma 530 ST has only full and 1/16 power, so it would not be a good choice for manual flash. My Pentax 500 FTZ (TTL, not PTTL) has 6 levels of power adjustment, much nicer.

01-13-2012, 07:38 AM	#4
reivax Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 826 Original Poster	Originally posted by Coeurdechene you should look at the output voltage of the thing...if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector, or something like the cactus V5..don't sync through pc chord without a voltage protector or you may fry the camera. Use the both in manual mode (p-ttl sucks because of the preflashes so you should learn how to use manual either way)... options: either you buy a safesync and use the promaster either on top or through pc chord (WITH safe sync!) and the metz as slave (it'll flash when it "sees" the promaster flash). OR you get something like the cactus V5. How do I find out the voltage? I don't think the flash comes with a manual. Would something like this take care of the problems? Amazon.com: CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 Channel Wireless Trigger for External Speelights with 1 Trigger and 2 Receivers (NPT-04+extra receiver): Camera & Photo

01-13-2012, 09:42 AM	#5
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by Coeurdechene .if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector, Pentax cameras can bear 12 volts. Originally posted by reivax How do I find out the voltage? I don't think the flash comes with a manual. Get a multimeter. Power up the flash at full power, discharge it, repeat. Then place your multimeter so it touches the center pin on the base of the flash and the contact on the side (above the hotshoe plate). Look a the voltage. Then, still keeping contact, fire the flash once again and look at the peak value you read while the flash recharges. Both the fully charged value and the peak should be below 12 volts for safe use. If it's above and you want to use it remotely, your best bet is to get a cheap optical trigger (5-10$ on dealextreme) since those are not worried by high voltages.

01-13-2012, 11:59 AM	#6
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by Coeurdechene ...if it's over 5 V (i think it was 5..) you should get a hot shoe voltage protector Originally posted by bdery Pentax cameras can bear 12 volts. Where do you folks get this piece of info from?

01-13-2012, 04:21 PM	#7
reivax Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 826 Original Poster	Thanks. I will try it out as soon as I can.

01-13-2012, 05:14 PM	#8
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by bdery Pentax cameras can bear 12 volts. I thought pentax has once said they were confirm with the standard and that is 24 volt so what is it? Anyone has some hard proof?

01-13-2012, 05:36 PM	#9
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by Anvh I thought pentax has once said they were confirm with the standard and that is 24 volt so what is it? Anyone has some hard proof? The question in my post above is purely rhetoric. I don't think there's been any official word from Pentax as how high is too high. Except for Ricoh, who specifically states 24V in the GX200 User's Manual, I haven't been able to find any official statement from any camera maker. There is a limit of 6V floating around. But from what I know, it came from an email message of a Canon technician in Europe (Germany if I remember it correctly) related to a particular model of EOS, hardly "official." I've been using 24V as a limit for my K10Ds and K-7.

01-13-2012, 09:00 PM	#10
reivax Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 826 Original Poster	Just spent the last... I don't know how many hours looking up flash triggers. The one that caught my eye was the CowboyStudio NPT-04. By the time I was ready to hit order (On Amazon), it was out of stock. They still have it in other forms, but I would have to pay a lot more to get the trigger and two receivers. Since that seemingly great deal seems to be temporarily out of reach (Amazon has no idea when they'll have it back in stock), I guess I should be exploring more options. I looked into Yongnuo and Cactus (as others on this board have recommended) but I really don't know which one I should be looking into. Both brands seem to have many different models and I know I don't know enough about flash triggers to make a confident decision. Do any of you guys have any recommendations?

01-16-2012, 06:12 AM	#11
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,362	Originally posted by SOldBear Where do you folks get this piece of info from? The internet Originally posted by SOldBear The question in my post above is purely rhetoric. I don't think there's been any official word from Pentax as how high is too high. The closest to an official answer was a reply from a repairs clerck at some Pentax factory, saying the limit is 12V. That reply was posted on the forums here a while back. Originally posted by reivax Yongnuo and Cactus (as others on this board have recommended) but I really don't know which one I should be looking into. Both brands seem to have many different models and I know I don't know enough about flash triggers to make a confident decision. Do any of you guys have any recommendations? Yep. I've been using the Yongnuo YN-04 II for a while now, and it's excellent. Reliable, straightforward, simple to use. Two colleagues use them also and they love them. I've read good things about the Cactus too, but I don't see what you would gain relative to the YN-04. If you don't want fancy controls like remote camera triggers with the transmitters, you don't need a higher-end model (and if you need remote triggers for the camera, buy a Yongnuo remote for 2$). Make sure to get the YN-04 II, though, the II means your transmitter also has a hotshoe so you can mount a flash on the camera in addition to the transmitter itself.