HSS Insight needed

Anvh · 03-03-2012, 04:54 PM

With 1/1000 you're probably down to 1/16 if i had to make a guess and then you're still only capturing at 1/1000 of a second, the metz 58 is doing 1/1500 at 1/4th of the power. So if the flash can over power the ambient at 1/4th of his power you better use that then HSS at 1/1000
And since it's 1/4th you can probably take 4 shots close other eachother which you cant with HSS.

But Metz 58 isn't a fast flash though, the 540 from pentax is faster for example.
And studio flash work in a different way, they are the fastest at full power while flashguns are fastest at lowest power.

**maxfield_photo** · 03-03-2012, 08:35 PM

Get an Orbis and a TTL cord, and the 58 would be a powerful tool for macro.

[Edit: Oh, and the Metz 58 AF2 as of firmware v2.0 does use preflash suppression. Sadly, it can't be disabled at the moment

]

**maxfield_photo** · 03-03-2012, 09:33 PM

Ok, just did a test. I hooked a TTL cord to my Metz 58 af-2 and mounted my FA 100 2.8 macro on my K20d (sorry, I don't own an orbis). Anyway, it works flawlessly.

I was shooting at ISO 200, 1/4000th. At f/8 the flash was showing a working distance of 67cm, at f/11, it was 33cm. Once I hit f/13, the distance scale read --, as if to say "you're on your own, buddy", but pTTL did an admirable job. I took it all the way to f/22 where it seemed to finally start to dim, but only by about half a stop. Mind you my flash was about 15cm from my subject. Even in the well lit room where I preformed the test, the background was pitch black. I even tried standing so a lamp was directly behind my subject to create contre jour lighting, the HSS still rendered the background completely black.

aliasant · 03-04-2012, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by maxfield_photo

Ok, just did a test. I hooked a TTL cord to my Metz 58 af-2 and mounted my FA 100 2.8 macro on my K20d (sorry, I don't own an orbis). Anyway, it works flawlessly.

I was shooting at ISO 200, 1/4000th. At f/8 the flash was showing a working distance of 67cm, at f/11, it was 33cm. Once I hit f/13, the distance scale read --, as if to say "you're on your own, buddy", but pTTL did an admirable job. I took it all the way to f/22 where it seemed to finally start to dim, but only by about half a stop. Mind you my flash was about 15cm from my subject. Even in the well lit room where I preformed the test, the background was pitch black. I even tried standing so a lamp was directly behind my subject to create contre jour lighting, the HSS still rendered the background completely black.

That sounds incredibly nice

I have a TTL cord so this all sounds like a great bright future

Now.
What the heck is an Orbis..?

Yes.
Ill google it

Edit:

Not sure that Orbis is for me.

I have a homemade thing that works similar to the Orbis but instead of that ring its a huge squareish softbox and it hangs over the front of the lens.
It doesn spread the light quite evenly and its soft enough. Not really usable for much except closeups and macros but thats what I want it for.

Thank you all for insights in HSS which apparently isnt at all what I thought it was

My ignorance has been corrected and the thread filled its purpose.

Last edited by aliasant; 03-04-2012 at 03:53 AM.

**maxfield_photo** · 03-04-2012, 07:51 AM

Well I should add that HSS can be used for more than just making the background pitch black. It basically kills off ambient light, but used at more normal settings (i.e. 1/250th~1/1000th) it can add saturation and detail to the background while bringing out your subject. It's also good for freezing a hummingbird's wings without having to resort to bulb mode and f/22.

aliasant · 03-04-2012, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by maxfield_photo

Well I should add that HSS can be used for more than just making the background pitch black. It basically kills off ambient light, but used at more normal settings (i.e. 1/250th~1/1000th) it can add saturation and detail to the background while bringing out your subject. It's also good for freezing a hummingbird's wings without having to resort to bulb mode and f/22.

Aah. That sounds interesting. Any images to show with those effects?

Anvh · 03-04-2012, 08:54 AM

Here is a bit more about freezing with flash.
HSS vs Normal
High Speed Shutter vs. Ordinary Flash Sync

Bit more about HSS.
http://pixsylated.com/blog/simple-truths-about-high-speed-sync-2/

Last edited by Anvh; 03-04-2012 at 09:00 AM.

aliasant · 03-04-2012, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

Here is a bit more about freezing with flash.
HSS vs Normal
High Speed Shutter vs. Ordinary Flash Sync

Bit more about HSS.
Simple Truths About High-Speed Sync | PixSylated | Syl Arena's Blog on Light & Imagemaking

Brilliant!

Finally I understand what HSS is.

Now Im trying to visualize how the hummingbird would look like using that technique.

Pleeeeeasy pleeeeeasy, show an example if you have one.

This might be interesting when shooting flying kritters. I mostly shoot in strong sunlight and use the flash at a 90ish angle from the sun. The flash doesnt have to be that strong, just enough.

Anvh · 03-04-2012, 01:00 PM - **1 Like**

To freeze the wings HSS isn't fast enough so you need to use the normal flash, hopefully these help.
If there is a lot of ambient a normal flash might not be powerfull enough since you need it at lower power to get the speed, the answer is then to use a Studio flash.
Hummingbird Photography Guide Part 1 - High Speed Flash - Ralph Paonessa Photography Workshops & Photo Tours
NatureScapes.Net - Article on High Speed Flash Hummingbird Photography Using the Canon Digital System
http:// Hummingbird Photography Lighting Methods

03-03-2012, 08:35 PM	#17
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Get an Orbis and a TTL cord, and the 58 would be a powerful tool for macro. [Edit: Oh, and the Metz 58 AF2 as of firmware v2.0 does use preflash suppression. Sadly, it can't be disabled at the moment] Last edited by maxfield_photo; 03-03-2012 at 08:54 PM.

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03-03-2012, 04:54 PM	#16
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	With 1/1000 you're probably down to 1/16 if i had to make a guess and then you're still only capturing at 1/1000 of a second, the metz 58 is doing 1/1500 at 1/4th of the power. So if the flash can over power the ambient at 1/4th of his power you better use that then HSS at 1/1000 And since it's 1/4th you can probably take 4 shots close other eachother which you cant with HSS. But Metz 58 isn't a fast flash though, the 540 from pentax is faster for example. And studio flash work in a different way, they are the fastest at full power while flashguns are fastest at lowest power.

03-03-2012, 09:33 PM	#18
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Ok, just did a test. I hooked a TTL cord to my Metz 58 af-2 and mounted my FA 100 2.8 macro on my K20d (sorry, I don't own an orbis). Anyway, it works flawlessly. I was shooting at ISO 200, 1/4000th. At f/8 the flash was showing a working distance of 67cm, at f/11, it was 33cm. Once I hit f/13, the distance scale read --, as if to say "you're on your own, buddy", but pTTL did an admirable job. I took it all the way to f/22 where it seemed to finally start to dim, but only by about half a stop. Mind you my flash was about 15cm from my subject. Even in the well lit room where I preformed the test, the background was pitch black. I even tried standing so a lamp was directly behind my subject to create contre jour lighting, the HSS still rendered the background completely black.

03-04-2012, 03:17 AM	#19
aliasant Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 634 Original Poster	Originally posted by maxfield_photo Ok, just did a test. I hooked a TTL cord to my Metz 58 af-2 and mounted my FA 100 2.8 macro on my K20d (sorry, I don't own an orbis). Anyway, it works flawlessly. I was shooting at ISO 200, 1/4000th. At f/8 the flash was showing a working distance of 67cm, at f/11, it was 33cm. Once I hit f/13, the distance scale read --, as if to say "you're on your own, buddy", but pTTL did an admirable job. I took it all the way to f/22 where it seemed to finally start to dim, but only by about half a stop. Mind you my flash was about 15cm from my subject. Even in the well lit room where I preformed the test, the background was pitch black. I even tried standing so a lamp was directly behind my subject to create contre jour lighting, the HSS still rendered the background completely black. That sounds incredibly nice I have a TTL cord so this all sounds like a great bright future Now. What the heck is an Orbis..? Yes. Ill google it Edit: Not sure that Orbis is for me. I have a homemade thing that works similar to the Orbis but instead of that ring its a huge squareish softbox and it hangs over the front of the lens. It doesn spread the light quite evenly and its soft enough. Not really usable for much except closeups and macros but thats what I want it for. Thank you all for insights in HSS which apparently isnt at all what I thought it was My ignorance has been corrected and the thread filled its purpose. Last edited by aliasant; 03-04-2012 at 03:53 AM.

03-04-2012, 07:51 AM	#20
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Well I should add that HSS can be used for more than just making the background pitch black. It basically kills off ambient light, but used at more normal settings (i.e. 1/250th~1/1000th) it can add saturation and detail to the background while bringing out your subject. It's also good for freezing a hummingbird's wings without having to resort to bulb mode and f/22.

03-04-2012, 08:07 AM	#21
aliasant Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 634 Original Poster	Originally posted by maxfield_photo Well I should add that HSS can be used for more than just making the background pitch black. It basically kills off ambient light, but used at more normal settings (i.e. 1/250th~1/1000th) it can add saturation and detail to the background while bringing out your subject. It's also good for freezing a hummingbird's wings without having to resort to bulb mode and f/22. Aah. That sounds interesting. Any images to show with those effects?

03-04-2012, 08:54 AM	#22
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Here is a bit more about freezing with flash. HSS vs Normal High Speed Shutter vs. Ordinary Flash Sync Bit more about HSS. http://pixsylated.com/blog/simple-truths-about-high-speed-sync-2/ Last edited by Anvh; 03-04-2012 at 09:00 AM.

03-04-2012, 09:12 AM	#23
aliasant Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 634 Original Poster	Originally posted by Anvh Here is a bit more about freezing with flash. HSS vs Normal High Speed Shutter vs. Ordinary Flash Sync Bit more about HSS. Simple Truths About High-Speed Sync \| PixSylated \| Syl Arena's Blog on Light & Imagemaking Brilliant! Finally I understand what HSS is. Now Im trying to visualize how the hummingbird would look like using that technique. Pleeeeeasy pleeeeeasy, show an example if you have one. This might be interesting when shooting flying kritters. I mostly shoot in strong sunlight and use the flash at a 90ish angle from the sun. The flash doesnt have to be that strong, just enough.

03-04-2012, 01:00 PM - 1 Like	#24
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	To freeze the wings HSS isn't fast enough so you need to use the normal flash, hopefully these help. If there is a lot of ambient a normal flash might not be powerfull enough since you need it at lower power to get the speed, the answer is then to use a Studio flash. Hummingbird Photography Guide Part 1 - High Speed Flash - Ralph Paonessa Photography Workshops & Photo Tours NatureScapes.Net - Article on High Speed Flash Hummingbird Photography Using the Canon Digital System http:// Hummingbird Photography Lighting Methods