[aliasant]

I like to shoot some bug macros especially in the springtime and I have been dreaming of higher synctimes then 1/180.

I have a K5 and have been looking at the Metz 58 AF2 since it has HSS.

I really dont have any knowledge in this area so any insight on what I could expect or how to even use it would be wonderful.

[lamented bovine]

I like to shoot some bug macros especially in the springtime and I have been dreaming of higher synctimes then 1/180.

I have a K5 and have been looking at the Metz 58 AF2 since it has HSS.

I really dont have any knowledge in this area so any insight on what I could expect or how to even use it would be wonderful.

There are far better macro people on this site then myself do a search on macro and see what others are using. Assuming you have some type of macro lens I dont think the Metz 58 AF2 will suit what you need for macro, HSS, you could get the metz off camera with a trigger however you will loose hss(180 max sync). I have two 58 AF 2's great flash units. For macro I have Tamron 90 Af DI II and Sigma Em 140 DG ring flash, I rarely use this ring flash with HSS/PTTL mode ( which it supports). I also use the ring on my 50mm for some portraits. Also using a ring flash on close subjects changes the game with the light to subject ratio, even with HSS. Best advice, check out what the macro people are using before throwing large sums of dollars at stuff you may not require.

Hope I have been helpfull

Shane

[aliasant]

Thanks but Im ok with my macro techniques
Dont worry about that part.

I have reflektors and diffusers on my macro flash system I use now but I want the higher speeds if possible,

What Im trying to understand is the technical parts between the K5, and a HSS flash ( like the Metz 58 af2) .
How to set it all up and what limitationsare there?
What speeds can a working HSS system get to?
Do I need additional equipment to get it to work?

[lamented bovine]

Thanks but Im ok with my macro techniques
Dont worry about that part.

I have reflektors and diffusers on my macro flash system I use now but I want the higher speeds if possible,

What Im trying to understand is the technical parts between the K5, and a HSS flash ( like the Metz 58 af2) .
How to set it all up and what limitationsare there?
What speeds can a working HSS system get to?
Do I need additional equipment to get it to work?

I understand. The only shortfall with metz I could forsee is using a shorter focal length lens ie: 50 - 90 or 105 focal length macro lenses and light fall off at front of barrel. Dont know about longer macro lenses or standerd lenses with adaptors, I have tried 90mm with ext tubes and metz flash on cam and failed, mind you the tubes i used are PKA and I did find with metz 58 2 any lense I used that is an A lens on both K20 and K7 the max sync is 180, HSS did not work with A lenses on both my cameras.
Cheers
Shane

[aliasant]

I understand. The only shortfall with metz I could forsee is using a shorter focal length lens ie: 50 - 90 or 105 focal length macro lenses and light fall off at front of barrel. Dont know about longer macro lenses or standerd lenses with adaptors, I have tried 90mm with ext tubes and metz flash on cam and failed, mind you the tubes i used are PKA and I did find with metz 58 2 any lense I used that is an A lens on both K20 and K7 the max sync is 180, HSS did not work with A lenses on both my cameras.
Cheers
Shane

Aah.
So A lenses wont work with HSS.
Good first intel !

For macro I will probably use a FA-100/2.8.
Have you tried any FA lenses?

When you get the HSS to work, what speeds can you get and are there any problems using it?
What shooting mode is best? M, AV or can you do this in X?

[lamented bovine]

Aah.
So A lenses wont work with HSS.
Good first intel !

For macro I will probably use a FA-100/2.8.
Have you tried any FA lenses?

When you get the HSS to work, what speeds can you get and are there any problems using it?
What shooting mode is best? M, AV or can you do this in X?

Ok I generally dont shot macro, what I have found is an A lens will default to 180 sync on K7 and K20;
1 I have not tried FA lenses
2 I dont think the metz will give you what you are looking for on that focal length 100mm, unless you use a HSS cable attached to hot shoe (well its not an HSS cable
its just cable that can tranfer the relevent data to flash) and you are limited by length of cable.
3 X sync conection is exactly that 180 max
4 M mode would be best option, you fly the camera not the camera flies you.
5 Getting the HSS to work is only relevent to your AV and ISO, lets say you want your background to be black but your say flower to be in focus and bright you will choose maybe F16 which will mean your HSS speed will need to be somewhat high I:E F16 1/? @ 100.
5 Experiment until it works for you.

Probaly not helpfull

Cheers
Shane

[aliasant]

Nice.
More and more bits falling in to place.

Im not sure why i wouldnt get HSS working using a 100mm lens?
What does the focal length have to do with HSS?

I mostly shoot M or AV depending on lens but I have been using X when shooting with my older flashes.

1 of the reasons Im longing for higher flashsync speeds is to be able to shoot bugs or birds in flight or moving fast. 1/180 just isnt near fast enough in those cases.

Shooting people in "fluid" setups, were both I and the subjects move around could probably benefit from HSS too. Even in studio shots.


Another thing that I dont get is how I use the HSS flash to trigger studio flashes? I have a couple of Quantuums and they can be controlled via radio or sync cable but they also have the light sensors. Would they trigger on a HSS flash from the Metz on camera?

What about the Pre flash. Do they trigger on that or do they wait for the real flash?
Can I turn off the Pre on the Metz?


Questions by the doussin......

[lamented bovine]

Nice.
More and more bits falling in to place.

Im not sure why i wouldnt get HSS working using a 100mm lens?
What does the focal length have to do with HSS?

I mostly shoot M or AV depending on lens but I have been using X when shooting with my older flashes.

1 of the reasons Im longing for higher flashsync speeds is to be able to shoot bugs or birds in flight or moving fast. 1/180 just isnt near fast enough in those cases.

Shooting people in "fluid" setups, were both I and the subjects move around could probably benefit from HSS too. Even in studio shots.


Another thing that I dont get is how I use the HSS flash to trigger studio flashes? I have a couple of Quantuums and they can be controlled via radio or sync cable but they also have the light sensors. Would they trigger on a HSS flash from the Metz on camera?

What about the Pre flash. Do they trigger on that or do they wait for the real flash?
Can I turn off the Pre on the Metz?


Questions by the doussin......

Nice.
More and more bits falling in to place.

Im not sure why i wouldnt get HSS working using a 100mm lens?
What does the focal length have to do with HSS?

I mostly shoot M or AV depending on lens but I have been using X when shooting with my older flashes.

?of the reasons Im longing for higher flashsync speeds is to be able to shoot bugs or birds in flight or moving fast. 1/180 just isnt near fast enough in those cases.

?Shooting people in "fluid" setups, were both I and the subjects move around could probably benefit from HSS too. Even in studio shots.


?Another thing that I dont get is how I use the HSS flash to trigger studio flashes? I have a couple of Quantuums and they can be controlled via radio or sync cable but they also have the light sensors. Would they trigger on a HSS flash from the Metz on camera?

?What about the Pre flash. Do they trigger on that or do they wait for the real flash?
?Can I turn off the Pre on the Metz?


Questions by the doussin......

Ok where is the help when one needs it. As my understanding goes:

?Im not sure why i wouldnt get HSS working using a 100mm lens?
?What does the focal length have to do with HSS?

If flash is mounted on camera, one would assume for marco we are close to subject ( even @100mm) flash will fire and go beyond subject. The HSS will work, however one will be too close to subject with flash mounted on camera. Further back from subject the we are not macro, yes?

? of the reasons Im longing for higher flashsync speeds is to be able to shoot bugs or birds in flight or moving fast. 1/180 just isnt near fast enough in those cases.

Ummm HSS and bugs in flight maybe, birds well lets just say if you have the dollars for high speed film camera's ( like what david attenborough has) go for it.



?Another thing that I dont get is how I use the HSS flash to trigger studio flashes? I have a couple of Quantuums and they can be controlled via radio or sync cable but they also have the light sensors. Would they trigger on a HSS flash from the Metz on camera?

I have rangers and HSS will not fire them from metz on camera, I dont recall any studio flash portable or otherwise stating HSS is supported. However in stating that if light trigger gets a response they will fire. Your strobes will fire under the specs outlined within sync speeds.

?What about the Pre flash. Do they trigger on that or do they wait for the real flash?
Can I turn off the Pre on the Metz?

Thats new to me I dont think the metz has a preflash unless your are thinking of strobe mode.
I need to clarify the birds in flight thing, I dont beleive the metz flash would have the grunt (power) for that.
Cheers
Shane

[aliasant]

Ok where is the help when one needs it. As my understanding goes:

Im not sure why i wouldnt get HSS working using a 100mm lens?
What does the focal length have to do with HSS?

If flash is mounted on camera, one would assume for marco we are close to subject ( even @100mm) flash will fire and go beyond subject. The HSS will work, however one will be too close to subject with flash mounted on camera. Further back from subject the we are not macro, yes?

1 of the reasons Im longing for higher flashsync speeds is to be able to shoot bugs or birds in flight or moving fast. 1/180 just isnt near fast enough in those cases.

Ummm HSS and bugs in flight maybe, birds well lets just say if you have the dollars for high speed film camera's ( like what david attenborough has) go for it.



Another thing that I dont get is how I use the HSS flash to trigger studio flashes? I have a couple of Quantuums and they can be controlled via radio or sync cable but they also have the light sensors. Would they trigger on a HSS flash from the Metz on camera?

I have rangers and HSS will not fire them from metz on camera, I dont recall any studio flash portable or otherwise stating HSS is supported. However in stating that if light trigger gets a response they will fire. Your strobes will fire under the specs outlined within sync speeds.

What about the Pre flash. Do they trigger on that or do they wait for the real flash?
Can I turn off the Pre on the Metz?

Thats new to me I dont think the metz has a preflash unless your are thinking of strobe mode.

Cheers
Shane

Ok.

I guess I have to test it with my Quantuums if I buy the Metz.

About focal length and HSS.
I have designed a huge diffuser thing working as a softbox sort of and that one is attached to the flash. That means that I can redirect the flash downwards infront of the lens.Flash and focal length has never been a problem with my previous flashes even with a 100mm lens + 100mm tubes and of course doesnt have anything to do with HSS


Thanx for helping out.

Still would love to know if it works with FA-lenses and my K5.

[lamented bovine]

Ok.

I guess I have to test it with my Quantuums if I buy the Metz.

About focal length and HSS.
I have designed a huge diffuser thing working as a softbox sort of and that one is attached to the flash. That means that I can redirect the flash downwards infront of the lens.Flash and focal length has never been a problem with my previous flashes even with a 100mm lens + 100mm tubes and of course doesnt have anything to do with HSS


Thanx for helping out.

Still would love to know if it works with FA-lenses and my K5.

Your quantums will be trail and error.
This softbox/diffuser thing you have made and then add 100mm of EXT tubes to said lens, good greif , HSS would not factor into that, let alone getting correct focus even on a 2.8 lens, I would be amazed if one could see subject in viewfinder. Your shutter speeds could be be counted out loud. Gee even at what you state, I dont beleive the metz would have enough power on full.
You did say you are great with macro, I believe you should know how your light works, when it is applied.
If you do know your macro as you have stated, I think you are asking some really silly questions?
I am asumming that one knows and it seems like you know!!!
Shane

[aliasant]

Your quantums will be trail and error.
This softbox/diffuser thing you have made and then add 100mm of EXT tubes to said lens, good greif , HSS would not factor into that, let alone getting correct focus even on a 2.8 lens, I would be amazed if one could see subject in viewfinder. Your shutter speeds could be be counted out loud. Gee even at what you state, I dont beleive the metz would have enough power on full.
You did say you are great with macro, I believe you should know how your light works, when it is applied.
If you do know your macro as you have stated, I think you are asking some really silly questions?

Shane

hehe

Never said I was good at anything but the flash thing I built works great even with my old nissin 360 flash.
I can easily do 2:1 macro at f8 and ISO 100..

I just have no experiance using modern flashes and especially not HSS. Been shooting using mostly old lenses and flashes.

If you think any questions are silly your free not to reply.

Heres a few shots taken using that homemade flash thingy and an older manual 105mm macrolens
Down scaled from original to 1024.

[lamented bovine]

hehe

Never said I was good at anything but the flash thing I built works great even with my old nissin 360 flash.
I can easily do 2:1 macro at f8 and ISO 100..

I just have no experiance using modern flashes and especially not HSS. Been shooting using mostly old lenses and flashes.

If you think any questions are silly your free not to reply.

Heres a few shots taken using that homemade flash thingy and an older manual 105mm macrolens
Down scaled from original to 1024.

I am at a loss, those shots are fantastic. Rule of thumb " if it is not broke dont fix it" that may apply here HSS will not give you what you require. I have a nis 360 too and a few achievers, bottem line the metz is a great flash, i dont think HSS would be a good bed companion, you will loose light, although it may work with your flash thing. I have found if we mound metz on camers with 90mm at close range, flash will miss subject and blow out background, hence as to why we purchased sigma em 140( also suports HSS).
From the shots you have shown, why change:?

[aliasant]

I am at a loss, those shots are fantastic. Rule of thumb " if it is not broke dont fix it" that may apply here HSS will not give you what you require. I have a nis 360 too and a few achievers, bottem line the metz is a great flash, i dont think HSS would be a good bed companion, you will loose light, although it may work with your flash thing. I have found if we mound metz on camers with 90mm at close range, flash will miss subject and blow out background, hence as to why we purchased sigma em 140( also suports HSS).
From the shots you have shown, why change:?

Thanx

Well.

I want to take my macro to another level and one way to get there might be hss.
Thats why I posted here. Im trying tolearn more about how it actually works. Advantages and disadvantages.
I also simply need a better flash som Im looking for one anyways and the Metz 58 AF2 looks to be a great choice.

I also recently bought a Sigmal 150-500mm f5-6.3. Its a great lens but Im curious about using it with a strong flash for fills when Im close range on birds or other wildlife.
I often find squirrels, mice, snakes or similar sort of hiding under bushes, in branches and so on so a flash might help reaching them. Perhaps in combo with a bouncer that I can lay on the ground between me and the subject.

Simply.
I want a new flash and Im very curious about HSS and what it can and cant do.

[Anvh]

1 of the reasons Im longing for higher flashsync speeds is to be able to shoot bugs or birds in flight or moving fast. 1/180 just isnt near fast enough in those cases.

Shooting people in "fluid" setups, were both I and the subjects move around could probably benefit from HSS too. Even in studio shots.

It sounds strange but you shouldn't use HSS then.

HSS work by strobing the flash light for the duration of the shutter speed, so if you use 1/2000 the flash also takes that long and because it needs to strobe it lose it's power.

It's much better to use a powerfull flash that can drown the ambient light, studio flashes are the best for that when you need a lot off power but for macro flash gun is good enough and use the lower power settings.
The flash light duration varry but it would be faster then 1/4000 the fatest shutter speed and the fatest HSS can do.

Most flashguns on the lowest power shoot faster then 1/16000 so that's faster, just be sure the ambient is killed enough, aperture is the way to do that.
And HSS while using the 150-500... good luck, it wont work because the flash lose a lot of power with HSS.

HSS is only usefull as fill light on a bright sunny day for the rest i'm unable to find much more use for it...

[aliasant]

It sounds strange but you shouldn't use HSS then.

HSS work by strobing the flash light for the duration of the shutter speed, so if you use 1/2000 the flash also takes that long and because it needs to strobe it lose it's power.

It's much better to use a powerfull flash that can drown the ambient light, studio flashes are the best for that when you need a lot off power but for macro flash gun is good enough and use the lower power settings.
The flash light duration varry but it would be faster then 1/4000 the fatest shutter speed and the fatest HSS can do.

Most flashguns on the lowest power shoot faster then 1/16000 so that's faster, just be sure the ambient is killed enough, aperture is the way to do that.
And HSS while using the 150-500... good luck, it wont work because the flash lose a lot of power with HSS.

HSS is only usefull as fill light on a bright sunny day for the rest i'm unable to find much more use for it...

Great info Thanx!

I was hoping I could use it at perhaps 1/1000 but still have the same or perhaps a third of its power but if that isnt the way it works..
Been reading more about the Metz 58 AF2 and it sounds like a great flash for me so I will try and get it anyways.
Maybe I can find a use for that HSS once I figured it out.

As I said before. I have NO experiance with modern flashes but Im sure it will be a huge boost upwards for me. HSS or not.