[Richard Day]

I've just tried out these two guns and thought it may be useful to highlight the fundamental differences between them, as they are both P-TTL compatible.

It may be easier to state what the 48 doesn't do, rather than make a list of comparisons. It is not intended as a comprehensive detailed list, just a highlight of the major functional differences.

• No Wireless support [Not so. Apologies, my error - corrected in a later post. See #6 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/155760-post6.html ]
• No A (Auto) mode, it has no built-in sensor, it relies on the camera metering.
• No secondary (infill) flash
• Lower power output (GN of 48 rather than 58)

Summarising, the 48 AF-1 is just a simple P-TTL external flash with tilt & swivel, it's not nearly as capable as the Pentax AF 360 which has wireless/slave support and A (Auto) mode, the only downside of the 360 is the lack of a swivel head and slightly lower power, but you can detach the 360 and use the pop-up as a controller/infill and use the 360, either in your hand, or on an adjustable mount/support.

Both units feature HSS. In comparison, the 58 AF-1 is a very capable and comprehensive flash, easily comparable to the Pentax AF 540 (in fact, maybe even slightly more capable). It supports all modes and has it's own built-in infill flash (switchable). It has full wireless support, including HSS wireless when used with another controller/slave that also has HSS wireless (Note that the K10D pop-up flash doesn't have HSS, whereas the istD does). It works seamlessly in wireless in conjunction with any Pentax wireless P-TTL gun. The 58 AF-1 will also support wireless A (Auto) with two (or more) 58 AF-1 guns, I'm not sure if the Pentax guns will do this, I believe that wireless is only supported in P-TTL mode.

I haven't tried the latest Sigma EF-530 DG Super, only the previous EF 500 DG Super, which if fitted with the latest chip upgrade worked well enough including wireless, although like the Metz 48 AF-1 it doesn't have it's own metering sensor allowing A (Auto) mode and the constructional quality was not up to the same standard as the Metz or Pentax guns, but it certainly represents decent value for money.

As I'm currently looking at upgrading my flash (an old Metz 54 MZ-3) and I frequently use A (Auto) mode (to eliminate pre-flash blinkies), my choice in order of preference would be (I've ignored other physical factors such as size etc.):

Metz 58 AF-1, Pentax AF 540, Pentax AF 360, Sigma EF 530 DG Super, Metz 48 AF-1

I hope this is some use to those considering buying a new P-TTL capable flashgun.

Cheers

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Last edited by Richard Day; 01-20-2008 at 05:50 AM. Reason: Correction about 48 AF-1 wireless

[Philippos]

Hi Richard.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
There is a small community here in Greece that uses this flash with great results (easy to find in Europe) and what I know is that it fully supports wireless/slave mode and you can trigger it with the built in pop-up flash.
In fact, the only drawback it has, is lack of Auto mode (as you very correctly mention). But otherwise, this is a far more capabe unit than the AF360. In Greece, it retails for less than half the price of the AF540, making the best value by far.

[and]

I always like to mention when people discuss the metz 58, that the flash duration at 1:1 power is 1/125 sec. vs 1/1200 sec for the 540. Thats a deal breaker for me.

[Philippos]

Ι've read about this argument before, and I find it kind of impossible for a unit to flash this long. I have no personal experience on the subject though, so you might be right.

[and]

Ι've read about this argument before, and I find it kind of impossible for a unit to flash this long. I have no personal experience on the subject though, so you might be right.

yes I also find it impossible for a company focusing on flashes to make such a product. but this is a quote from their own specs and the users manual.

From the 58 manual:

"If you need the full light output of the flash unit, you should not select a shutter speed that is faster than 1/125 second."

[Richard Day]

Hi Richard.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
There is a small community here in Greece that uses this flash with great results (easy to find in Europe) and what I know is that it fully supports wireless/slave mode and you can trigger it with the built in pop-up flash.
In fact, the only drawback it has, is lack of Auto mode (as you very correctly mention). But otherwise, this is a far more capabe unit than the AF360. In Greece, it retails for less than half the price of the AF540, making the best value by far.

I must apologize, you are quite correct!

I re-read the manual, tried it again and it works very well. I must RTFM more carefully in future!

This alters my choice table to:

Metz 58 AF-1, Pentax AF 560, Metz 48 AF-1, Pentax AF 360, Sigma EF 530 DG Super.

[Richard Day]

I always like to mention when people discuss the metz 58, that the flash duration at 1:1 power is 1/125 sec. vs 1/1200 sec for the 540. Thats a deal breaker for me.

Ι've read about this argument before, and I find it kind of impossible for a unit to flash this long. I have no personal experience on the subject though, so you might be right.

yes I also find it impossible for a company focusing on flashes to make such a product. but this is a quote from their own specs and the users manual.

From the 58 manual:

"If you need the full light output of the flash unit, you should not select a shutter speed that is faster than 1/125 second."

I'm rather perplexed by this situation, which I've seen referred to before. AFAIK the flash duration of discharge tubes is pretty consistent across the board (usually very fast), so I cannot imagine such a large difference actually existing. I will do some more research.


Has anyone actually done a comparative test in HSS mode to determine the flash duration issue? I must admit I didn't think to do this.

When I tested the guns, the 58 AF-1 actually seemed to be a more solid performer than the AF 540, which had a tendency to under expose by around 1 stop, if you dialed in +1 stop it was fine, both the Metz's were spot on.

(EDIT)
I've just looked into the manuals and indeed the GN is reduced from 1/125 sec with BOTH flash guns!

From the Pentax AF 540 manual (pages 82 & 88), it has a GN of 45 at 1/125 sec at ISO 100 with a 50mm lens, reducing as follows:

1/250 - GN 20.1
1/500 - GN 15.6
1/1000 - GN 11.7
1/2000 - GN 8.5
1/4000 - GN 6.1

The Metz manual says that the GN is 42 at 1/125 sec at ISO 100 with a 50mm lens (page 179), which is 3 less than the Pentax. I personally would consider the guns to have virtually the same output power. I would also expect a similar reduction in GN for faster shutter speeds.

The Metz manual shows a max HSS GN mode of 19 for an 50mm lens (page 182 of the manual), which is virtually identical to the Pentax AF 540 1/250 sec GN at 1/250 sec.

They also show a table of flash duration v. GN with partial output (page 180) which shows the following with a 50mm lens at ISO 100:

Power - Flash duration - GN
1/2 - 1/650 sec - GN 30
1/4 - 1/1500 sec - GN 21
1/8 - 1/3200 sec - GN 15
1/16 - 1/5500 sec - GN 10.5

The Pentax table is as follows (flash duration is not quoted):

1/2 - NA - GN 32
1/4 - NA - GN 22.5
1/8 - NA - GN 16
1/16 - NA - GN 11

I think you can deduce from the above, the guns are very similar in output and HSS performance.

---

Last edited by Richard Day; 01-18-2008 at 01:10 PM. Reason: More data added

[Confused]

Hi Richard

I'm afraid all this 'technical stuff' is steadily 'doing my head in' and all I really want to know is which bl***dy flashgun to
purchase ?? At present I'm not into studio lighting scenarios and I am primarily looking to use a flashgun mainly on camera. These items aren't exactly what you might call inexpensive and disconcertingly there seem to be so many potential downsides or 'ifs' & 'buts' with all the models you've mentioned that I'm even more 'confused' than usual ! I've pretty much discounted the Pentax
AF 360, as it's head doesn't rotate (not much use when using portrait mode, as you can't bounce the light off the ceiling when the unit is attached to the K10D's hotshoe etc). Certain aspects concerning the longevity of Pentax AF 540's battery compartment and reported under-exposure issues don't inspire confidence in this model, especially bearing in mind it's excessive cost ! For reasons beyond my comprehension, the Metz 48 AF-1 stupidly lacks (Auto) mode. Metz's 58 AF-1 flash duration at 1:1 power is only 1/125 sec but otherwise seems to cover most bases, although like the Pentax AF 540 it isn't what you'd call bargain basement territory. The build quality of Sigma's offerings would appear to leave something to be desired........

The flash itself feels flimsy. I had read reports that the Pentax 360 was not that well built, but compared to the Sigma, it feels solid. The buttons on the sigma look cheap, the display looks cheap, the flash head cannot support itself with a Lumiquest 80/20 attached after certain bounce angles (it just drops from about the last click, 60 degrees, straight to horizontal. It has no detents in between).

so I'm almost back at 'square one' again........Yikes !

Best regards
Richard

[Jodokast96]

Actually the Metz 48 does support wireless (that was corrected from the first post), but still lacks the Auto mode.

[Peter Zack]

Having owned a 540 and tested the other models, It think that bang for the buck is the Sigma. Yes it feels a little less robust than the others but I don't often use my flash guns as hammers. The 540 drawbacks are somewhat inconsistent exposures and the head locks. If you want to add a Lightsphere or larger diffuser to the head it can't support the weight and always flops down unless pointed straight up or at the typical 90 degree angle. The Sigma seems to lock in place much better and being $125-150.00 cheaper than the 58, it seems like a no brainer.

Give me an AF400T updated to today's cameras and I'll finally be happy (or add TTL to the new bodies-like that will happen)

BTW Richard you might want to update the wireless aspect of the original post for those that miss your update.

[Richard Day]

Having owned a 540 and tested the other models, It think that bang for the buck is the Sigma. Yes it feels a little less robust than the others but I don't often use my flash guns as hammers. The 540 drawbacks are somewhat inconsistent exposures and the head locks. If you want to add a Lightsphere or larger diffuser to the head it can't support the weight and always flops down unless pointed straight up or at the typical 90 degree angle. The Sigma seems to lock in place much better and being $125-150.00 cheaper than the 58, it seems like a no brainer.

Give me an AF400T updated to today's cameras and I'll finally be happy (or add TTL to the new bodies-like that will happen)

BTW Richard you might want to update the wireless aspect of the original post for those that miss your update.

I've updated the original post.

The Sigma doesn't support A (Auto) mode, which is a major drawback for me, nor does it have the second infill flash which I use quite a lot with my Metz 54 MZ-3. I also prefer the build quality of the Metz guns, plus I'm not a Sigma fan either, just plain pedantic I suppose, but their products I've had have always been a dissapointment ...

[Richard Day]

Hi Richard

I'm afraid all this 'technical stuff' is steadily 'doing my head in' and all I really want to know is which bl***dy flashgun to
purchase ?? At present I'm not into studio lighting scenarios and I am primarily looking to use a flashgun mainly on camera. These items aren't exactly what you might call inexpensive and disconcertingly there seem to be so many potential downsides or 'ifs' & 'buts' with all the models you've mentioned that I'm even more 'confused' than usual ! I've pretty much discounted the Pentax
AF 360, as it's head doesn't rotate (not much use when using portrait mode, as you can't bounce the light off the ceiling when the unit is attached to the K10D's hotshoe etc). Certain aspects concerning the longevity of Pentax AF 540's battery compartment and reported under-exposure issues don't inspire confidence in this model, especially bearing in mind it's excessive cost ! For reasons beyond my comprehension, the Metz 48 AF-1 stupidly lacks (Auto) mode. Metz's 58 AF-1 flash duration at 1:1 power is only 1/125 sec but otherwise seems to cover most bases, although like the Pentax AF 540 it isn't what you'd call bargain basement territory. The build quality of Sigma's offerings would appear to leave something to be desired........


so I'm almost back at 'square one' again........Yikes !

Best regards
Richard

Okay, I will make it simple. My clear choice is the Metz 58 AF-1.

Personally I think the flash duration figure is a bit of a blind ally - BOTH the Metz and the Pentax guns lose flash power in HSS mode, in use, I think the difference will not be noticable. If it worries you, then buy the Pentax. If price is a major concern and you're not worried about the slight drop in power or the lack of A (Auto) mode, then buy the 48 AF-1, it's a really nice little gun.

[Rickster]

{snip}

I hope this is some use to those considering buying a new P-TTL capable flashgun.

Cheers

Richard,

Thank you SO much for posting this analysis. It has been VERY, VERY useful!

[jaebles]

The AF540FGZ manual says 1/1 power is ~1/1200 sec (approx 3.5MB):

http://www.pentaxslr.com/files/scms_docs//AF540FGZ_web.pdf (page 91)

For the Metz (approx 1.8MB):

http://www.metz.de/en/service_support/service/bedienungsanleitungen/download.195.pdf (page 180)

For me personally, it's not a question of power, but more of a question of using fill flash during the day, with faster shutter speeds. It's rare that I'll use 1/1, but I have a great preference for indirect lighting through bounce and diffusion, and being limited to 1/125, no matter how rare that might be, is a big deal.

Compared to other flagship flashlights, Nikon SB800 being the benchmark (imho) which does 1/1050, the Metz just cannot compete:

http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/Speedlights/SB-800.pdf (page 128)

Now. This has been mentioned as a "feature" in some corners, as the ability to smash out that sort of light (58GN!) for a whole 1/125 is quite a feat. And the build quality apparently leaves ANY other Pentax TTL compatible flash out there for dead.

So now, the question still remains, what flash to get?

[newyorker]

Sorry for raising the thread so old, however I have the same question and cannot find a satisfactory answer in the forum or on internet.

How critical is this factor, planning to buy a flash and want to make sure that it is full featured and lasts me across multiple bodies.

Pentax AF540FGZ - 1/1 power is ~1/1200 sec
Metz 58 AF1 - 1/1 power is ~1/125 sec

Appreciate comments / feedback on this.

Thanks.

------------------------
Pentax K-x
18-55mm Kit lens
55-300mm Kit lens
Asahi Pentax M 50mm f1.7
Tokina 28mm f2.8

The AF540FGZ manual says 1/1 power is ~1/1200 sec (approx 3.5MB):

http://www.pentaxslr.com/files/scms_docs//AF540FGZ_web.pdf (page 91)

For the Metz (approx 1.8MB):

http://www.metz.de/en/service_support/service/bedienungsanleitungen/download.195.pdf (page 180)

For me personally, it's not a question of power, but more of a question of using fill flash during the day, with faster shutter speeds. It's rare that I'll use 1/1, but I have a great preference for indirect lighting through bounce and diffusion, and being limited to 1/125, no matter how rare that might be, is a big deal.

Compared to other flagship flashlights, Nikon SB800 being the benchmark (imho) which does 1/1050, the Metz just cannot compete:

http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/Speedlights/SB-800.pdf (page 128)

Now. This has been mentioned as a "feature" in some corners, as the ability to smash out that sort of light (58GN!) for a whole 1/125 is quite a feat. And the build quality apparently leaves ANY other Pentax TTL compatible flash out there for dead.

So now, the question still remains, what flash to get?