Please help with flash

nicholek · 01-19-2008, 09:10 AM

Hey I am pretty new to all this and I just got my 540 flash last night to put on my k100d super. I am reading both the manuals but can't figure it out. Can someone tell me do I still want to get my readings to a 0.0 when using the flash? Like I will put it on 125 and f4 and it says like -3.0 but when I shoot it, it doesn't look that underexposed. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it. Oh and I am using the flash in Pttl mode cause I was told that would be the simplest since I don't know much about flashes.
Thanks so much
Nichole

Clem Nichols · 01-19-2008, 12:02 PM

Nichole:

The simplest thing to do until you become more familiar with your camera and flash is to set your camera in the Program mode when using the flash. That way you don't have to figure anything out, it's all done automatically for you.

CN

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-19-2008, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by nicholek

Hey I am pretty new to all this and I just got my 540 flash last night to put on my k100d super. I am reading both the manuals but can't figure it out. Can someone tell me do I still want to get my readings to a 0.0 when using the flash? Like I will put it on 125 and f4 and it says like -3.0 but when I shoot it, it doesn't look that underexposed. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it. Oh and I am using the flash in Pttl mode cause I was told that would be the simplest since I don't know much about flashes.
Thanks so much
Nichole

what your camera is showing is the number of stops under exposed the frame would be without flash.

depending on what you want to achieve, in terms of blend with existing light and flash you can adjust your shutter speed and apature to change the natural exposure.You need to be careful however, in setting the shutter too slow, as you can get a mix of blurred picture and a sharp ooutline, when the shutter speed is too slow to freeze a moving image

nicholek · 01-19-2008, 05:39 PM

Ok I am using manual mode and I understand the iso, ss, fstop enough to use it. But my question is will the camera and flash not communicate and tell me what it will be with the flash on? How do you know how to get a correct setting if the camera always says one thing but when you take the picture the flash makes it different than what the camera said it would be?

Ivan Glisin · 01-19-2008, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by nicholek

Ok I am using manual mode and I understand the iso, ss, fstop enough to use it. But my question is will the camera and flash not communicate and tell me what it will be with the flash on? How do you know how to get a correct setting if the camera always says one thing but when you take the picture the flash makes it different than what the camera said it would be?

The first thing to learn about the flash photography: shutter speed has no effect on exposure resulting in flash output (e.g. reflected light from the flash). Technical limit is flash sync speed, 1/180 with *istDS and i believe K100D and K10D. Only aperture has effect and you regulate the brightness of the scene with the aperture in simple flashes, or P-TTL you regulate the "output range" a flash can automatically adjust output for.

To understand how it works do the following: Set your camera to "M" mode and set shutter speed at 1/180 (with flash turned on you can not go over 1/180 anyway if not in HS mode, forget about this for now). Make sure the flash is in P-TTL mode. Tap shutter release button to wake-up you camera (metering goes to sleep mode after 10 seconds) and the distance scale will appear showing you that for a given aperture P-TTL system can preflash, meter through the lens, and adjust the flash output to cover distance indicated by the bar on the scale. Try changing the aperture and see how distance scale changes. Don't forget to have metering active or scale will not appear. Once you are happy with the range, start shooting and don't worry about anything for now.

Note: This applies to normal flash head position. If you twist/tilt flash head distance scale disappears. This is because camera can not possibly not know from what surface light will bounce (distance and color). For twist/tilt open up aperture by one to two stops for bounce from close white walls (regular room). More for farther and/or darker walls.

This is only a start, there is much more to it but for now understand the relationship between aperture, P-TTL range, and automatic P-TTL flash output adjustment.

Once you get comfortable with the basics you can learn advanced techniques with slower shutter speeds to balance ambient and flash light, on-flash output compensation, manual flash mode, high speed (HS) mode, effect of ISO setting, and more.

and · 01-19-2008, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Ivan Glisin

Only aperture has effect and you regulate the brightness of the scene with the aperture in simple flashes, or P-TTL you regulate the "output range" a flash can automatically adjust output for.

ISO and Aperture affect both ambient and flash
Shutter speed affects only ambient. provided it is within the sync speed.

Ivan Glisin · 01-19-2008, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by and

ISO and Aperture affect both ambient and flash
Shutter speed affects only ambient. provided it is within the sync speed.

Correct, however I was trying not to involve ISO to simplify the example. But it is unlikely that anyone will be rolling op and down ISO to adjust distance range so I did not consider it to be of importance.

But since you have mentioned it, changing ISO does affect flash result but various ISO settings will affect distance scale as well and will be accounted for. (I just edited my original message to add a few closing notes about advanced techniques.)

nicholek · 01-19-2008, 06:25 PM

Ok so I won't pay attention to my settings being off in camera then, right? I won't worry that it says it's going to be -3.0?
Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!

nicholek · 01-19-2008, 06:28 PM

One more thing..........will you actually see a pre flash because I am not noticing that, I just see one flash.

Ivan Glisin · 01-19-2008, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by nicholek

Ok so I won't pay attention to my settings being off in camera then, right? I won't worry that it says it's going to be -3.0?
Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!

That's right. Camera meter shows you what it would look like WITHOUT the flash. Flash range on the flash shows you the range flash will properly lit the scene for given aperture (and ISO).

Shutter speed can be used creatively with flash, but as I said forget about that for now.

01-19-2008, 09:10 AM	#1
nicholek Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Coast of Mississippi Posts: 24	Please help with flash Hey I am pretty new to all this and I just got my 540 flash last night to put on my k100d super. I am reading both the manuals but can't figure it out. Can someone tell me do I still want to get my readings to a 0.0 when using the flash? Like I will put it on 125 and f4 and it says like -3.0 but when I shoot it, it doesn't look that underexposed. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it. Oh and I am using the flash in Pttl mode cause I was told that would be the simplest since I don't know much about flashes. Thanks so much Nichole

01-19-2008, 06:01 PM	#5
Ivan Glisin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgrade Posts: 656	Originally posted by nicholek Ok I am using manual mode and I understand the iso, ss, fstop enough to use it. But my question is will the camera and flash not communicate and tell me what it will be with the flash on? How do you know how to get a correct setting if the camera always says one thing but when you take the picture the flash makes it different than what the camera said it would be? The first thing to learn about the flash photography: shutter speed has no effect on exposure resulting in flash output (e.g. reflected light from the flash). Technical limit is flash sync speed, 1/180 with istDS and i believe K100D and K10D. Only aperture has effect and you regulate the brightness of the scene with the aperture in simple flashes, or P-TTL you regulate the "output range" a flash can automatically adjust output for. To understand how it works do the following: Set your camera to "M" mode and set shutter speed at 1/180 (with flash turned on you can not go over 1/180 anyway if not in HS mode, forget about this for now). Make sure the flash is in P-TTL mode. Tap shutter release button to wake-up you camera (metering goes to sleep mode after 10 seconds) and the distance scale will appear showing you that for a given aperture P-TTL system can preflash, meter through the lens, and adjust the flash output to cover distance indicated by the bar on the scale. Try changing the aperture and see how distance scale changes. Don't forget to have metering active or scale will not appear. Once you are happy with the range, start shooting and don't worry about anything for now. Note: This applies to normal flash head position. If you twist/tilt flash head distance scale disappears. This is because camera can not possibly not know from what surface light will bounce (distance and color). For twist/tilt open up aperture by one to two stops for bounce from close white walls (regular room). More for farther and/or darker walls. This is only a start, there is much more to it but for now understand the relationship between aperture, P-TTL range, and automatic P-TTL flash output adjustment. Once you get comfortable with the basics you can learn advanced techniques with slower shutter speeds to balance ambient and flash light, on-flash output compensation, manual flash mode, high speed (HS) mode, effect of ISO setting, and more. Last edited by Ivan Glisin; 01-19-2008 at 06:15 PM.*

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01-19-2008, 12:02 PM	#2
Clem Nichols Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Munfordville, Ky. Photos: Gallery Posts: 370	Nichole: The simplest thing to do until you become more familiar with your camera and flash is to set your camera in the Program mode when using the flash. That way you don't have to figure anything out, it's all done automatically for you. CN

01-19-2008, 12:08 PM	#3
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	Originally posted by nicholek Hey I am pretty new to all this and I just got my 540 flash last night to put on my k100d super. I am reading both the manuals but can't figure it out. Can someone tell me do I still want to get my readings to a 0.0 when using the flash? Like I will put it on 125 and f4 and it says like -3.0 but when I shoot it, it doesn't look that underexposed. If anyone could help I would really appreciate it. Oh and I am using the flash in Pttl mode cause I was told that would be the simplest since I don't know much about flashes. Thanks so much Nichole what your camera is showing is the number of stops under exposed the frame would be without flash. depending on what you want to achieve, in terms of blend with existing light and flash you can adjust your shutter speed and apature to change the natural exposure.You need to be careful however, in setting the shutter too slow, as you can get a mix of blurred picture and a sharp ooutline, when the shutter speed is too slow to freeze a moving image

01-19-2008, 05:39 PM	#4
nicholek Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Coast of Mississippi Posts: 24 Original Poster	Ok I am using manual mode and I understand the iso, ss, fstop enough to use it. But my question is will the camera and flash not communicate and tell me what it will be with the flash on? How do you know how to get a correct setting if the camera always says one thing but when you take the picture the flash makes it different than what the camera said it would be?

01-19-2008, 06:10 PM	#6
and Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,476	Originally posted by Ivan Glisin Only aperture has effect and you regulate the brightness of the scene with the aperture in simple flashes, or P-TTL you regulate the "output range" a flash can automatically adjust output for. ISO and Aperture affect both ambient and flash Shutter speed affects only ambient. provided it is within the sync speed.

01-19-2008, 06:15 PM	#7
Ivan Glisin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgrade Posts: 656	Originally posted by and ISO and Aperture affect both ambient and flash Shutter speed affects only ambient. provided it is within the sync speed. Correct, however I was trying not to involve ISO to simplify the example. But it is unlikely that anyone will be rolling op and down ISO to adjust distance range so I did not consider it to be of importance. But since you have mentioned it, changing ISO does affect flash result but various ISO settings will affect distance scale as well and will be accounted for. (I just edited my original message to add a few closing notes about advanced techniques.)

01-19-2008, 06:25 PM	#8
nicholek Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Coast of Mississippi Posts: 24 Original Poster	Ok so I won't pay attention to my settings being off in camera then, right? I won't worry that it says it's going to be -3.0? Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!

01-19-2008, 06:28 PM	#9
nicholek Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Coast of Mississippi Posts: 24 Original Poster	One more thing..........will you actually see a pre flash because I am not noticing that, I just see one flash.

01-19-2008, 06:30 PM	#10
Ivan Glisin Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgrade Posts: 656	Originally posted by nicholek Ok so I won't pay attention to my settings being off in camera then, right? I won't worry that it says it's going to be -3.0? Thanks for your help, I appreciate it! That's right. Camera meter shows you what it would look like WITHOUT the flash. Flash range on the flash shows you the range flash will properly lit the scene for given aperture (and ISO). Shutter speed can be used creatively with flash, but as I said forget about that for now.