Will the af360 work as a substitute for

Spooked · 01-25-2008, 12:53 PM

a dedicated macro ring flash? I have a working distance of around 11cm with my current macro set-up.

I have read a million posts and have read everything from, NO WAY, it will overexpose your shots to go ahead knock yourself out.

If i take the flash off-cam will it make any difference?

I have read that the 10d got a firmware update that allowed wirless to work with just one off cam flash. I wonder if the update was implemented for the 100d-super as it was released after the 10d?

Or should i go with one of the generic ringflash cheapos off Ebay.

Your input and advice as always will be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards
Peter

Clem Nichols · 01-25-2008, 06:26 PM

Peter:

From what I understand, most of the "experts" don't like ring lights for doing macro shots because the even lighting produces a flat, 2-dimensional appearance. Certainly taking the flash off camera will make a difference, because then not only will the lens not interfere with the light, but by holding the light to one side you'll get some shadows which will give you more of a 3-D appearance. As for too much light at such close range, keep in mind that because of the extremely shallow depth of field you're going to need to shoot at f/22 or so to keep everything in focus, and if shooting insects, for example, you may need to use a fast shutter speed to avoid motion blurring. In other words, too much light is unlikely to be a problem. The best way to get your flash off camera for this type of shooting is with a PTTL extension cord which is 3-4 feet long, camera model specific, and has a male hot-shoe mount on one end and a female mount on the other end. I bought mine from Wolfe Camera on e-bay for about $50. I hope this helps.

CN

Ole · 01-25-2008, 06:39 PM

I can add that if your pictures get overexposed despite f/22 you can just move the flash further away from the object. If it is too close to the object the P-TTL system may not function properly but overexpose.

Spooked · 01-26-2008, 01:54 AM

Thank you both very much for clearing that up for me. I checked out the item you mentioned Clem, however they only ship to the US. The only products I see over here in Finland that resemble the ones you pointed out are manufactured by HAMA and they appear to be generic.

The search continues. Thank you Gentlemen

Kind regards

Peter

Spooked · 01-26-2008, 07:25 AM

Im seeing a lot of posts about cheap wireless trigers on Ebay. Do these trigger the transmission of the p-ttl data between camera and the af360? What I mean is will i lose something with these triggers as opposed to using the dedicated wired solution?

Would the new af-200fg mounted on the camera be able to trigger the wireless function on the af360?

Confussed? yes. Ready to give up and start collecting clay pipes? never.

Kind regards

Peter

Clem Nichols · 01-26-2008, 08:07 AM

Peter:

Yes, you'd definitely lose the P-TTL capability by using the V2S triggers, but a little experience would soon make you proficient at using your flash manually, and the great thing about digital photography is that, unlike film photography, it costs nothing to practice. I've just done some googling, and although I didn't find a dealer who would ship a ready-made TTL extension cord out of the U.S. you can buy the components here: Pentax | Hot Shoe Adapter F | 31022 | B&H Photo Video. Unfortunately, having to do it this way is going to be more expensive, as you'll have to purchase 3 items and then connect them. By doing it this way, however, you will retain full P-TTL capability.

CN

Chako · 01-26-2008, 10:45 AM

I have 2 of the 3 items since before Christmas. However, I am still waiting for the part that fits onto the camera. For some unknown reason, it has been back ordered for almost 2 months now...so good luck if your trying to go this route like I am.

I am trying to build my Pentax macro rig up to the level of my Canon system. It has been a hard go, and I still haven't bought a macro lens yet for it...waiting for that pesky Cable F part to come in.

Anyhow, I have found macro photography looks best with the flash off camera and a diffuser attached to the flash. This not only softens the lighting, but also decreases the chance of overexposure somewhat.

I know I have posted this photo to death, but here is what I am talking about. I have found the large Lumiquest softbox perfect in directing the light where I need it the most. Also, the larger surface area really lights up small objects with a nice pleasing even light. Just an idea. I know quite a few people who have made their own flash diffuser using paper. It all does the job.

Clem Nichols · 01-26-2008, 11:22 AM

Chako:

What kind of flash mounting bracket do you have mounted on your camera? I had been considering something along the lines of a Bogen-Manfrotto macro bracket (picture attached) with a 360 mounted on one side and a white reflector mounted on the other side instead of a second strobe, but yours may be a better approach. Thanks

CN

Spooked · 01-26-2008, 03:06 PM

Hi Clem

Thanks for the rundown. I have done a pile of research and have decided to go with the new AF200, the F and Fg adaptors and the L cable. These will cost 240 Euro, about 500 US.

I just cannot justify the extra for the AF360 to the wife. I hope this works out as i know the AF200 has limited functionality.

Fellow Pentaxians in the US seem to have it made on gear prices

Makes me wanna pack up and ship over.

Kind regards
Peter

Spooked · 01-26-2008, 03:09 PM

Hi Chako

I hope the awated parts arrive unexpectedly soon so you can get out with that setup.

Kind regards

Peter

Chako · 01-26-2008, 09:11 PM

I hope it comes in soon.

The bracket is an old Vivitar flash bracket with a small Linhof micro flash ball head mounted on it. I fear I have gone flash bracket crazy of late. The Vivitar was my first bracket, but lacked functionality for anything other then what I was using it for. I moved to a Manfrotto flash bracket (not that macro bracket...I would find that too unwieldy), but found that if I wanted to move my camera into portrait mode, everything went out of whack, that and I couldn’t rest the camera and flash on a table without laying the whole thing down. My latest bracket is a Stroboframe Pro RL.

I know from the few Canon forums that I frequent, the Delta bracket is a real favorite for macro work. It has a positional arm that allows a lot of movement without the need for a ball head.

Clem Nichols · 01-27-2008, 07:15 AM

Chako:

Thanks for your response. You certainly have an impressive list of photo equipment. The only thing I can't understand is why you have a Better Beamer on your wish list. Considering how much you already have invested, $50 or so for a Better Beamer seems a pittance.

CN

Chako · 01-27-2008, 03:32 PM

Oh hehe. That is easily explained. I haven't gotten around to buying one yet. I also tend to support my local photography store, and he can't get them locally. So it would mean having to buy it over the internet. It is a next summer must get item.

01-25-2008, 12:53 PM	#1
Spooked Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 93	Will the af360 work as a substitute for a dedicated macro ring flash? I have a working distance of around 11cm with my current macro set-up. I have read a million posts and have read everything from, NO WAY, it will overexpose your shots to go ahead knock yourself out. If i take the flash off-cam will it make any difference? I have read that the 10d got a firmware update that allowed wirless to work with just one off cam flash. I wonder if the update was implemented for the 100d-super as it was released after the 10d? Or should i go with one of the generic ringflash cheapos off Ebay. Your input and advice as always will be greatly appreciated. Kind regards Peter

01-26-2008, 01:54 AM	#4
Spooked Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 93 Original Poster	Clem, Ole Thank you both very much for clearing that up for me. I checked out the item you mentioned Clem, however they only ship to the US. The only products I see over here in Finland that resemble the ones you pointed out are manufactured by HAMA and they appear to be generic. The search continues. Thank you Gentlemen Kind regards Peter

01-26-2008, 07:25 AM	#5
Spooked Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 93 Original Poster	I have done some further reading and Im seeing a lot of posts about cheap wireless trigers on Ebay. Do these trigger the transmission of the p-ttl data between camera and the af360? What I mean is will i lose something with these triggers as opposed to using the dedicated wired solution? Would the new af-200fg mounted on the camera be able to trigger the wireless function on the af360? Confussed? yes. Ready to give up and start collecting clay pipes? never. Kind regards Peter

01-26-2008, 11:22 AM	#8
Clem Nichols Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Munfordville, Ky. Photos: Gallery Posts: 370	Chako: What kind of flash mounting bracket do you have mounted on your camera? I had been considering something along the lines of a Bogen-Manfrotto macro bracket (picture attached) with a 360 mounted on one side and a white reflector mounted on the other side instead of a second strobe, but yours may be a better approach. Thanks CN Last edited by Clem Nichols; 11-24-2009 at 10:24 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Substitute for 135/2.8 A?	arpaagent	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	5	02-11-2009 08:08 AM
Can't get test flash/modeling flash to work on af360	ffuller22	Flashes, Lighting, and Studio	0	10-31-2007 05:11 PM

01-25-2008, 06:26 PM	#2
Clem Nichols Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Munfordville, Ky. Photos: Gallery Posts: 370	Peter: From what I understand, most of the "experts" don't like ring lights for doing macro shots because the even lighting produces a flat, 2-dimensional appearance. Certainly taking the flash off camera will make a difference, because then not only will the lens not interfere with the light, but by holding the light to one side you'll get some shadows which will give you more of a 3-D appearance. As for too much light at such close range, keep in mind that because of the extremely shallow depth of field you're going to need to shoot at f/22 or so to keep everything in focus, and if shooting insects, for example, you may need to use a fast shutter speed to avoid motion blurring. In other words, too much light is unlikely to be a problem. The best way to get your flash off camera for this type of shooting is with a PTTL extension cord which is 3-4 feet long, camera model specific, and has a male hot-shoe mount on one end and a female mount on the other end. I bought mine from Wolfe Camera on e-bay for about $50. I hope this helps. CN

01-25-2008, 06:39 PM	#3
Ole Administrator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,408	I can add that if your pictures get overexposed despite f/22 you can just move the flash further away from the object. If it is too close to the object the P-TTL system may not function properly but overexpose.

01-26-2008, 08:07 AM	#6
Clem Nichols Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Munfordville, Ky. Photos: Gallery Posts: 370	Peter: Yes, you'd definitely lose the P-TTL capability by using the V2S triggers, but a little experience would soon make you proficient at using your flash manually, and the great thing about digital photography is that, unlike film photography, it costs nothing to practice. I've just done some googling, and although I didn't find a dealer who would ship a ready-made TTL extension cord out of the U.S. you can buy the components here: Pentax \| Hot Shoe Adapter F \| 31022 \| B&H Photo Video. Unfortunately, having to do it this way is going to be more expensive, as you'll have to purchase 3 items and then connect them. By doing it this way, however, you will retain full P-TTL capability. CN

01-26-2008, 10:45 AM	#7
Chako Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ont, Canada. Posts: 563	I have 2 of the 3 items since before Christmas. However, I am still waiting for the part that fits onto the camera. For some unknown reason, it has been back ordered for almost 2 months now...so good luck if your trying to go this route like I am. I am trying to build my Pentax macro rig up to the level of my Canon system. It has been a hard go, and I still haven't bought a macro lens yet for it...waiting for that pesky Cable F part to come in. Anyhow, I have found macro photography looks best with the flash off camera and a diffuser attached to the flash. This not only softens the lighting, but also decreases the chance of overexposure somewhat. I know I have posted this photo to death, but here is what I am talking about. I have found the large Lumiquest softbox perfect in directing the light where I need it the most. Also, the larger surface area really lights up small objects with a nice pleasing even light. Just an idea. I know quite a few people who have made their own flash diffuser using paper. It all does the job.

01-26-2008, 03:06 PM	#9
Spooked Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 93 Original Poster	Hi Clem Thanks for the rundown. I have done a pile of research and have decided to go with the new AF200, the F and Fg adaptors and the L cable. These will cost 240 Euro, about 500 US. I just cannot justify the extra for the AF360 to the wife. I hope this works out as i know the AF200 has limited functionality. Fellow Pentaxians in the US seem to have it made on gear prices Makes me wanna pack up and ship over. Kind regards Peter

01-26-2008, 03:09 PM	#10
Spooked Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Helsinki Posts: 93 Original Poster	Hi Chako I hope the awated parts arrive unexpectedly soon so you can get out with that setup. Kind regards Peter

01-26-2008, 09:11 PM	#11
Chako Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ont, Canada. Posts: 563	I hope it comes in soon. The bracket is an old Vivitar flash bracket with a small Linhof micro flash ball head mounted on it. I fear I have gone flash bracket crazy of late. The Vivitar was my first bracket, but lacked functionality for anything other then what I was using it for. I moved to a Manfrotto flash bracket (not that macro bracket...I would find that too unwieldy), but found that if I wanted to move my camera into portrait mode, everything went out of whack, that and I couldn’t rest the camera and flash on a table without laying the whole thing down. My latest bracket is a Stroboframe Pro RL. I know from the few Canon forums that I frequent, the Delta bracket is a real favorite for macro work. It has a positional arm that allows a lot of movement without the need for a ball head.

01-27-2008, 07:15 AM	#12
Clem Nichols Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Munfordville, Ky. Photos: Gallery Posts: 370	Chako: Thanks for your response. You certainly have an impressive list of photo equipment. The only thing I can't understand is why you have a Better Beamer on your wish list. Considering how much you already have invested, $50 or so for a Better Beamer seems a pittance. CN

01-27-2008, 03:32 PM	#13
Chako Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ont, Canada. Posts: 563	Oh hehe. That is easily explained. I haven't gotten around to buying one yet. I also tend to support my local photography store, and he can't get them locally. So it would mean having to buy it over the internet. It is a next summer must get item.