[saggsy]

Hey guys,

I know very little about flashes. I would like a decent flash to use off camera manually, but something which can have the power adjusted manually and quickly. I've a friend who wants some shots in his bar of bands and patrons. I'm thinking the simplest setup would be camera in one hand (k-5) and hand held flash in other with some sort of diffuser (not decided which type yet). I'd like to be able to quickly adjust the power output of the flash depending on the distance of the subjects, maybe a dial or sliding thing. I've tried reading reviews, but most discuss the automatic benefits of the flash and don't mention how manual adjustments are made. I own a pair of cactus v5 and a sigma 610 (not super) that only has half and full power settings, not the range I need.

Which flash would be best for me? Oh, the cheaper the better, of course!

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[elliott]

A Yongnuo YN-560 is relatively easy to adjust on the fly and has a lot of power levels, it is buttons though, not a dial or slider like you mentioned. All adjustments are easily accessible, left and right for major power adjustments from 1/1 down to 1/128, up and down for fine adjustments and there are zoom buttons. Everything can be reached with a single thumb while holding the flash. They definitely fit the cheap requirement, $71 each for the YN-560 II, which is an updated version with an LCD display instead of LEDs.

Also, the dimensions of the head match the Canon 580EX II, so there is no shortage of diffusers and light modifiers available.

[saggsy]

Elliot,

That was a very fast reply. I had a look at a video of this one in action, I reckon this would be perfect. It seems to be highly recommended by a lot of people, I think the adjustments would work well, thank you.

Are these generic flashes, or do I need to get one specific for Pentax?

I'm definitely getting one from ebay. In the stores in aus they are $175!

[elliott]

I believe they make a version for Sony with the weird hotshoe, but the rest are all universal and work with anything that has a normal hotshoe.

[saggsy]

Elliott,

You are a star. Thanks so much.

[maxfield_photo]

I'm a big fan of the Metz 58-AF2, but I wouldn't recomment it in this case, because a) it's one of the more expensive flashes out there (worth every penny though IMO), and b) you have to hit several buttons to adjust the power up or down. From what I've seen of the Yongnuo 560s they seem like they are very simple to operate.

I have a piece of advice for you when you do find you do find a flash. I use a light meter when doing manual flash, but I'm guessing you don't own one, or would even want to use it if you did. So what is going to work best for you is learning to judge the distance at which you get proper exposure. Keep your flash either at 1/4th or 1/8th power by default and maybe 35 or 28mm zoom position (this won't matter much with a small softbox attached), and just learn what distance gives you f/8, or f/5.6 or whatever your favorite aperture may be. Set up a gray card on a stand, and start snapping shots of it. Move the light forwards and back until your histogram shows a spike right in the middle, and that will be your working distance. If you're shooting in darkend bars, you probably don't want to use anything higher than f/8, but experiment with slower shutter speeds to let the ambient light catch up to the flash a bit.

[Edit: I forgot, at times you won't be able to get as close as your normal working distance, that's when you bump the power up. If your normal working distance is 3 meters @ 1/8th power, but for a particular shot your subject is 6 meters away, then you need to boost the power by 2 stops, or go to 1/2 power in other words.
+50% of working distance = +1 stop,
+100% of working distance = +2 stops,
+150% of working distance = +3 stops,
Any further than that and you'll have to open your aperture or raise your ISO]

[saggsy]

Thanks maxfield, I did look at the Metz, or maybe even one of the previous iterations, which are quite a bit cheaper. I think I would prefer to have the adjustable power on hand. I'd like to be able to very quickly take a second shot if the exposure is not quite right. I hadn't thought about using the aperture. Not being experienced flash, and I've only used it on still subjects, I expose for the ambient light then set the flash to full or half and just keep moving it forward/back til it's correct. I was hoping to use similar, but adjusting flash power rather than distance. I would hope I'd pretty quickly know which flash power to be using.

[maxfield_photo]

I hadn't thought about using the aperture.

Make ISO your go-to variable if you're already at full power, especially since you have a K-5. Use aperture only if you start climbing into ISO 6400. The hierarchy should look like this power output > ISO > aperture. Shutter speed won't affect your flash's exposure, but it will affect the ambient exposure.

Not being experienced flash, and I've only used it on still subjects, I expose for the ambient light then set the flash to full or half and just keep moving it forward/back til it's correct. I was hoping to use similar, but adjusting flash power rather than distance. I would hope I'd pretty quickly know which flash power to be using.

Well you will have a distance that is most comfortable for you, what I'm suggesting is learn what flash power setting gives you proper exposure at that distance/aperture/ISO combination. Make that your reference point. Then it won't matter what color clothing your subject is wearing, or the dominant color of the background, your exposures will just be right. If most of your shots are taken at 3 or 4 or 10 meters from your subject, then that is the working distance that you want to know inside and out. When you can fill in the blanks in the following statement, you will have this manual flash thing nailed.

"I like to be _____ meters from my subject. I like to shoot at f/_____, and ISO _____, so the power setting that will yield correct exposure every time is 1/___ power."

That's it, it's just that simple. The math is just easy halving or doubling from there.

[saggsy]

Excellent. That makes a lot of sense to me, and backed up what I'd like to do in practise. If I adjust the aperture and ISO to my preference, then my only variable would be flash output depending on distance.

One more question I'd just thought of, if anyone could answer. Is the power output from a flash constant with an f-stop? For example, if I were shooting at f8 and stepped down to f5.6, would it be as simple to change the flash output from 1/8 to 1/4, or is this a whole different variable?

[maxfield_photo]

Well remember that f/5.6 is a wider aperture than f/8, so you're letting in more light. So in the scenario you mentioned, assuming you didn't move or change the ISO, you would decrease the flash output from 1/8th to 1/16th power.

[saggsy]

Of course, I did mean 1/8 to 1/4, had a couple of beers at the footy. And I missed your edit in your earlier post where you explained that. I reckon I've got it. I'll get hold of the yn 560 ii, practise, practise some more, then some practise until I don't even need to think about it. Cheers guys.

[Neo_]

buy Yn560 even the mark I are good enough, actually I prefer the orange leds when they are far away from me or at strange angles instead of an LCD that would be hard to read in those situations, I love mine, you just set the power with the arrow dials on the back.
My starting point is usually 5.6 at 1/8 power and I adjust from there, it's like starting from the middle so it's easier to understand how much up or down you need to go.
I don't know if one flash would be enough in a bar wich usually tends to be on the dark side, I guess you won't be shooting at less than 800 iso,