How do you focus on dark locations with a strobist setup?

bdery · 12-17-2012, 06:35 AM

I'm usually doing shoots in my home studio with a strobist setup (2-3 flashes with Yongnuo radio triggers). Last riday I was shooting portraits at my company's Christmas party, and the place was less than optimal. Almost no ambiant light (think the usual bar), with some red lights going on and off randomly. Focusing, even with my F50 f1,7, was tedious at times.

I know some studio lamps have a sort of low-output mode that stays on all the time to help provide some ambiant light to help AF. I also know the newer Pentax bodies have a dedicated AF beam. My K20D uses the built-in flash to help AF, but with a radio triggerr that's not an option of course. My flashes are FTZ-500 so they could in therory be controlled as slaves, but they can't be set to ignore the first burst from the built-in flash.

Studio lamps are out of the question because they'ree too expensive and require power, something I don't always have access to (Friday is an example). Plus I like small strobes, they just work for me.

So here's the question : what do you guys do to get some light to help AF?

I could use a single bulb (the kind mechanics use maybe) but I'm sure there is a decent solution for this. I could dream and wish for a lamp that turns off when the camera fires (sort of a reverse triger?) but I doubt that exists.

so shoot your suggestions, I'm all ears!

mrNewt · 12-17-2012, 07:04 AM - **1 Like**

The cheapest way that comes to mind?
A small pocket flash light. Will have enough output to let you focus, lock the focus and then take pics.
I've used that a couple of times and it worked quite good.

bdery · 12-17-2012, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by mrNewt

The cheapest way that comes to mind?
A small pocket flash light.

That could work, indeed. I wonder if it could mess up the white balance, but maybe the output is too low for that. Something like this maybe?

Stanley MaxLife

mrNewt · 12-17-2012, 07:21 AM

If you have your WB on manual, there is no way to screw it up ... even on Auto I don't think it will. I never even thought about it since I don't remember having any problems with it.

I was using one of the cheapest flashes out there. I'm sure the one you have linked to will work just fine.
I even like the idea of stands - that would be handy

.

Last edited by mrNewt; 12-17-2012 at 07:31 AM.

**LaurenOE** · 12-17-2012, 07:23 AM

Most flashes have a SB (spot beam) mode - which is an infra red output - that the camera can use to focus. It's what is under that red window on the flash. If you use a smaller flash that has a SB mode, and put that flash in SB mode, you can use the Pentax F5P cords and adapters, to have an invisible illuminator that works in conjunction with your regular output flashes.

bdery · 12-17-2012, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

Most flashes have a SB (spot beam) mode

My FTZ-500 have that but the wireless trigger will not send a half-press command.

Originally posted by LaurenOE

If you use a smaller flash that has a SB mode, and put that flash in SB mode, you can use the Pentax F5P cords and adapters, to have an invisible illuminator that works in conjunction with your regular output flashes.

You're suggesting mounting the adapter on the camera and use one socket for the trigger and one for a flash used in SB mode? That could work indeed. Or maybe there are even units that only provide a SB and no flash, even cheaper...

I'll look into that too.

Originally posted by mrNewt

If you have your WB on manual, there is no way to screw it up

Different types of lighting (different temperatures) could lead to weird colours, but with a weak flashlight the risk is minimal indeed.

mrNewt · 12-17-2012, 07:33 AM

I doubt you will find SB only speedlights ... I don't remember seeing any of them.
But if you do, let us know. That will be a cool thing to have

.

Originally posted by bdery

Different types of lighting (different temperatures) could lead to weird colours, but with a weak flashlight the risk is minimal indeed.

Set your WB to Flash light.
Once you take the picture, your speedlights will illuminate the whole room basically. The small flash light will be completely "overwhelmed". I would be more concern of the colored lights that are going on and off in the room

.

**LaurenOE** · 12-17-2012, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by bdery

My FTZ-500 have that but the wireless trigger will not send a half-press command.

You're suggesting mounting the adapter on the camera and use one socket for the trigger and one for a flash used in SB mode? That could work indeed. Or maybe there are even units that only provide a SB and no flash, even cheaper...

I'll look into that too.

Different types of lighting (different temperatures) could lead to weird colours, but with a weak flashlight the risk is minimal indeed.

Yep. That is exactly what I am suggesting. If you want a proof of the concept, look at what Nikon offers - Nikon SC-29 TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord with AF Assist - Coiled

I had one of the Nikons briefly - as I had a D7000 for about 6 months.

There are plenty of Pentax flashes that have SB mode on them - and via eBay they are cheap.

A dedicated SB illuminator would be a killer accessory (killer accs?) for Pentax.

bdery · 12-17-2012, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

If you want a proof of the concept, look at what Nikon offers - Nikon SC-29 TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord with AF Assist - Coiled

That's a clever idea, right. I'll look at the Pentax F5P, to see how it works and if it does the same thing.

Originally posted by LaurenOE

There are plenty of Pentax flashes that have SB mode on them - and via eBay they are cheap.

I clearly don't need a FTZ-500 for this, I'll see which cheaper models work. I wonder if my Yongnuo triggers can transmit the half-press info, somehow I doubt it.

Originally posted by LaurenOE

A dedicated SB illuminator would be a killer accessory (killer accs?) for Pentax.

And for any brannd, for that matter. Maybe a remote infrared lamp (truly IR, not red with some IR) would work too.

SOldBear · 12-17-2012, 04:56 PM

bdery,

I replied to you in PM.

But here's an idea, farfetched but may work: use a ring flash that has focus-assist lamp. My Sunpak DX12-R is an example. It also has manual power ratio. If the ratio is set at 1/16, it probably won't affect the lighting that much. I'm not sure the range of the focus-assist lamp, however.

In a studio, you can use optical trigger to fire other flashes from the ring flash.

bdery · 12-18-2012, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by SOldBear

I replied to you in PM.

Thanks!

Originally posted by SOldBear

ut here's an idea, farfetched but may work: use a ring flash that has focus-assist lamp.

If I went that way, I might as well get an old 330FTZ or 240FT that also has an AF spot beam (or use my Sigma 530 ST DG which has 1/16 power and a spot beam). I tried optical triggers and they do not work as well as I'd like. I could skip them and use the slave mode of my 500FTZ if I try that. But I often set one flash at 1/8 and the other at 1/32, I doubt 1/16 would be low enough not to interfere. I could always bounce the Sigma away.

So in short, there seems to be no integrated solution that can work above a radio trigger since the AF beam needs the whole set of pins to activate. So the solutions are:

1-get a flashlight

2-get a cheap Pentax flash with a spot beam (would it work when plugged directly on the camera, since it's TTL and not PTTL? Something to verify with my 500FTZ) and trigger the flashes as slaves

3-use my Sigma PTTL flash and trigger the others as slaves

4-To be confirmed : if somehow the spot beam can fire when mounted on the radio trigger, use a cheap flash with spot beam mode

5-Search some more

Tonto · 12-18-2012, 07:18 AM

Laser pointer- that way it will focus exactly what you want- can't use for eyes though!

bdery · 12-18-2012, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Tonto

Laser pointer- that way it will focus exactly what you want- can't use for eyes though!

Which rules out studio...

**JimJohnson** · 12-18-2012, 05:19 PM

Yet another option .... go to the camping section of (whatever store you pick that sells this stuff) and purchase a battery powered fluorescent lantern. The light is reasonably bright and widely distributed. The upside is the light can be set down on a table or chair freeing your hands to adjust the camera. It also helps you see better when posing the subjects. The downside is I suggest either turning off or shielding the lantern during the exposure to avoid color mismatch issues.

Coeurdechene · 12-19-2012, 10:59 AM

Your flashes will kill all the light from the flashlight or fluorescent lantern...your camera does not need a very bright light to focus and if you have a relatively fast shutter the constant light won't affect the result...if by some starnge and misterious power of the flashlight it does affect the shot just lower your ISO, turn up the shutter speed and if needed put more power in your flashes. That's what's cool about the flashes: you can model the light by controling or killing the ambient light (in wich the flashlight is included) , and iluminating the subjet with the flashes in any manner you want.
When using flashes shutter controls ambient, aperture controls flashes...so playing with the two, the iso and the flash power output you can set the ratio ambient/flash light that you need.
That's why it's no problem and most studio strobes have modelling lights, they aid you "see" the way the flash will affect, they let you focus but do not affect the final shot.

12-17-2012, 06:35 AM	#1
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	How do you focus on dark locations with a strobist setup? I'm usually doing shoots in my home studio with a strobist setup (2-3 flashes with Yongnuo radio triggers). Last riday I was shooting portraits at my company's Christmas party, and the place was less than optimal. Almost no ambiant light (think the usual bar), with some red lights going on and off randomly. Focusing, even with my F50 f1,7, was tedious at times. I know some studio lamps have a sort of low-output mode that stays on all the time to help provide some ambiant light to help AF. I also know the newer Pentax bodies have a dedicated AF beam. My K20D uses the built-in flash to help AF, but with a radio triggerr that's not an option of course. My flashes are FTZ-500 so they could in therory be controlled as slaves, but they can't be set to ignore the first burst from the built-in flash. Studio lamps are out of the question because they'ree too expensive and require power, something I don't always have access to (Friday is an example). Plus I like small strobes, they just work for me. So here's the question : what do you guys do to get some light to help AF? I could use a single bulb (the kind mechanics use maybe) but I'm sure there is a decent solution for this. I could dream and wish for a lamp that turns off when the camera fires (sort of a reverse triger?) but I doubt that exists. so shoot your suggestions, I'm all ears!

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12-17-2012, 07:04 AM - 1 Like	#2
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	The cheapest way that comes to mind? A small pocket flash light. Will have enough output to let you focus, lock the focus and then take pics. I've used that a couple of times and it worked quite good.

12-17-2012, 07:16 AM	#3
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357 Original Poster	Originally posted by mrNewt The cheapest way that comes to mind? A small pocket flash light. That could work, indeed. I wonder if it could mess up the white balance, but maybe the output is too low for that. Something like this maybe? Stanley MaxLife

12-17-2012, 07:21 AM	#4
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	If you have your WB on manual, there is no way to screw it up ... even on Auto I don't think it will. I never even thought about it since I don't remember having any problems with it. I was using one of the cheapest flashes out there. I'm sure the one you have linked to will work just fine. I even like the idea of stands - that would be handy . Last edited by mrNewt; 12-17-2012 at 07:31 AM.

12-17-2012, 07:23 AM	#5
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Most flashes have a SB (spot beam) mode - which is an infra red output - that the camera can use to focus. It's what is under that red window on the flash. If you use a smaller flash that has a SB mode, and put that flash in SB mode, you can use the Pentax F5P cords and adapters, to have an invisible illuminator that works in conjunction with your regular output flashes.

12-17-2012, 07:28 AM	#6
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357 Original Poster	Originally posted by LaurenOE Most flashes have a SB (spot beam) mode My FTZ-500 have that but the wireless trigger will not send a half-press command. Originally posted by LaurenOE If you use a smaller flash that has a SB mode, and put that flash in SB mode, you can use the Pentax F5P cords and adapters, to have an invisible illuminator that works in conjunction with your regular output flashes. You're suggesting mounting the adapter on the camera and use one socket for the trigger and one for a flash used in SB mode? That could work indeed. Or maybe there are even units that only provide a SB and no flash, even cheaper... I'll look into that too. Originally posted by mrNewt If you have your WB on manual, there is no way to screw it up Different types of lighting (different temperatures) could lead to weird colours, but with a weak flashlight the risk is minimal indeed.

12-17-2012, 07:33 AM	#7
mrNewt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ON, RH Posts: 2,181	I doubt you will find SB only speedlights ... I don't remember seeing any of them. But if you do, let us know. That will be a cool thing to have . Originally posted by bdery Different types of lighting (different temperatures) could lead to weird colours, but with a weak flashlight the risk is minimal indeed. Set your WB to Flash light. Once you take the picture, your speedlights will illuminate the whole room basically. The small flash light will be completely "overwhelmed". I would be more concern of the colored lights that are going on and off in the room .

12-17-2012, 07:37 AM	#8
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Originally posted by bdery My FTZ-500 have that but the wireless trigger will not send a half-press command. You're suggesting mounting the adapter on the camera and use one socket for the trigger and one for a flash used in SB mode? That could work indeed. Or maybe there are even units that only provide a SB and no flash, even cheaper... I'll look into that too. Different types of lighting (different temperatures) could lead to weird colours, but with a weak flashlight the risk is minimal indeed. Yep. That is exactly what I am suggesting. If you want a proof of the concept, look at what Nikon offers - Nikon SC-29 TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord with AF Assist - Coiled I had one of the Nikons briefly - as I had a D7000 for about 6 months. There are plenty of Pentax flashes that have SB mode on them - and via eBay they are cheap. A dedicated SB illuminator would be a killer accessory (killer accs?) for Pentax.

12-17-2012, 08:35 AM	#9
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357 Original Poster	Originally posted by LaurenOE If you want a proof of the concept, look at what Nikon offers - Nikon SC-29 TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord with AF Assist - Coiled That's a clever idea, right. I'll look at the Pentax F5P, to see how it works and if it does the same thing. Originally posted by LaurenOE There are plenty of Pentax flashes that have SB mode on them - and via eBay they are cheap. I clearly don't need a FTZ-500 for this, I'll see which cheaper models work. I wonder if my Yongnuo triggers can transmit the half-press info, somehow I doubt it. Originally posted by LaurenOE A dedicated SB illuminator would be a killer accessory (killer accs?) for Pentax. And for any brannd, for that matter. Maybe a remote infrared lamp (truly IR, not red with some IR) would work too.

12-17-2012, 04:56 PM	#10
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	bdery, I replied to you in PM. But here's an idea, farfetched but may work: use a ring flash that has focus-assist lamp. My Sunpak DX12-R is an example. It also has manual power ratio. If the ratio is set at 1/16, it probably won't affect the lighting that much. I'm not sure the range of the focus-assist lamp, however. In a studio, you can use optical trigger to fire other flashes from the ring flash.

12-18-2012, 06:58 AM	#11
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357 Original Poster	Originally posted by SOldBear I replied to you in PM. Thanks! Originally posted by SOldBear ut here's an idea, farfetched but may work: use a ring flash that has focus-assist lamp. If I went that way, I might as well get an old 330FTZ or 240FT that also has an AF spot beam (or use my Sigma 530 ST DG which has 1/16 power and a spot beam). I tried optical triggers and they do not work as well as I'd like. I could skip them and use the slave mode of my 500FTZ if I try that. But I often set one flash at 1/8 and the other at 1/32, I doubt 1/16 would be low enough not to interfere. I could always bounce the Sigma away. So in short, there seems to be no integrated solution that can work above a radio trigger since the AF beam needs the whole set of pins to activate. So the solutions are: 1-get a flashlight 2-get a cheap Pentax flash with a spot beam (would it work when plugged directly on the camera, since it's TTL and not PTTL? Something to verify with my 500FTZ) and trigger the flashes as slaves 3-use my Sigma PTTL flash and trigger the others as slaves 4-To be confirmed : if somehow the spot beam can fire when mounted on the radio trigger, use a cheap flash with spot beam mode 5-Search some more

12-18-2012, 07:18 AM	#12
Tonto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wellington Posts: 969	Laser pointer- that way it will focus exactly what you want- can't use for eyes though!

12-18-2012, 08:58 AM	#13
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357 Original Poster	Originally posted by Tonto Laser pointer- that way it will focus exactly what you want- can't use for eyes though! Which rules out studio...

12-18-2012, 05:19 PM	#14
JimJohnson Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Summer:Lake Superior - Michigan Winter:Texas Hill Country Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,772	Yet another option .... go to the camping section of (whatever store you pick that sells this stuff) and purchase a battery powered fluorescent lantern. The light is reasonably bright and widely distributed. The upside is the light can be set down on a table or chair freeing your hands to adjust the camera. It also helps you see better when posing the subjects. The downside is I suggest either turning off or shielding the lantern during the exposure to avoid color mismatch issues.

12-19-2012, 10:59 AM	#15
Coeurdechene Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: madrid Photos: Albums Posts: 833	Your flashes will kill all the light from the flashlight or fluorescent lantern...your camera does not need a very bright light to focus and if you have a relatively fast shutter the constant light won't affect the result...if by some starnge and misterious power of the flashlight it does affect the shot just lower your ISO, turn up the shutter speed and if needed put more power in your flashes. That's what's cool about the flashes: you can model the light by controling or killing the ambient light (in wich the flashlight is included) , and iluminating the subjet with the flashes in any manner you want. When using flashes shutter controls ambient, aperture controls flashes...so playing with the two, the iso and the flash power output you can set the ratio ambient/flash light that you need. That's why it's no problem and most studio strobes have modelling lights, they aid you "see" the way the flash will affect, they let you focus but do not affect the final shot.