Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #1
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6
Do I need a light meter

Do I really need a light meter to do portraits with a 2 or 3 light set up?.....

Thanks in advance for any comments

02-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, PRofMA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,026
Depends...do you use TTL dedicated Pentax flashes? If so, not as much. But if you want to learn/understand lighting more, then yes, it's still helpful.
02-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #3
Ari
Veteran Member
Ari's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freehold, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 856
It depends on your setup, what kind of triggers you're using ("smart" or "dumb") and how you want to illuminate the background of the subject. I use one, but I also wing it with some basic settings I've learned from a few portrait seminars I've taken. It is something handy to have, along with a grey card. I use either a two speedlight setup or a two strobe setup, depending on where I am and how much time I have to set up gear. You can find some relatively inexpensive ones out there and it is something good to have in your bag. This is what I carry with me:
Sekonic L-308S Flashmate Light Meter 401-309 B&H Photo Video (it can meter incidental and flash light - I start with where I want my ISO and aperture settings to be and turn up or down my lighting accordingly)

Lastolite Waterproof EZ Balance - Grey, White - 12" LL (collapsible, easy to get in my bag)
02-22-2013, 05:31 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southern California
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,236
Fewer people need light meters these days, but you probably do. Fortunately this means you can get good used ones (such as Minolta) for very reasonable prices.

02-22-2013, 06:00 PM   #5
New Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6
Original Poster
I have 1 alien bee 800 with shoot through umbrella and one speed light on a stand with aputure trigmaster II wireless triggers. I have a back drop stand with a black and a white backdrop. I am just starting out with portrature. I am really enjoying the learning process. My camera is the pentax k5 and i only have the 18 to 55 kit lens for now. i've been watching alot of videos on you tube and reading the forum. I don't mind spending money on a light meter if needed but don't want to buy things I don't really need. Thanks for all of your help.
02-22-2013, 08:21 PM - 1 Like   #6
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
maxfield_photo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,216
I got my Sekonic 758DR used for $400 and I consider it probably the best money I've ever spent on a piece of photo gear. Don't think of it as something you have to buy, you can achieve very reliable reproducible results in a three light setup with a 5 dollar gray card and 3 bits of string. Think of a light meter as a tool that you can use to nail exposure in challenging situations on the first try. Think of it as a tool to help you balance ambient light with your strobes. Think of it as a way to enhance tonality in your black and white photos by practicing the Zone system. Think of it as something that will keep you from looking like a rank amateur in front of a paying client as you fiddle with power levels and chimp to see if you got it right. My light meter has completely changed the way I shoot (and because I shoot mostly films these days, it's expensive to miss, or bracket), yet when I bought it, I thought "oh, I guess I'll have to have one if I want to get my ratios right". I never dreamed anything could be so massively useful.

p.s. If you don't plan on shooting film and have no interest in using the Zone system, look around for a used Sekonic 358. It's their most popular model, so there are plenty to be had, usually around $200 US
02-22-2013, 08:54 PM   #7
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 671
I just got myself a sekonic l308s. I got it very cheap of ebay, it's a basic model but it made a huge difference to the way I take photos. Before I would fiddle with lights and chimp my way to perfect photo. The person on the other side of lens was bored!!! Not to mention the mood showed in photos too.

After reading instructions, watching few videos on youtube and not to mention flicking through few books about lighting, thanks to the light meter I've nailed my exposure on the first photo. It speeds up the workflow drastically, instead of playing with the lights, you actually get time with your subject.

The great thing I can hook it up to my wireless triggers via pc-sync cord, otherwise it's very basic, but it's a huge time saver. Not to mention it's going to make you look like a pro and you will know exactly what is going on with your lights, instead of just guessing.

Not to mention I've just started shooting film again and it helps save film.

02-22-2013, 10:34 PM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 3,206
Shameless plug: I have a Minolta Auto Meter IV F for sale -> listing.
02-22-2013, 11:34 PM   #9
dms
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,192
If the lights aren't flash--then the old standard: sekonic studio light meter L398 (incident meter with selenium cell--no battery needed) is useful and cheap/reliable. Easily gotten from KEH, B&H, etc.
02-23-2013, 06:17 AM   #10
Veteran Member
reivax's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: California
Posts: 826
Good thread. I've wanted a light meter for a year now but have never known what to buy. I currently use a K-30 and want to use a 2-3 flash (manual most of the time) set up. There are so many light meters out there and it seems like everyone is recommending a different one. My spending range is around 300. What would you guys recommend?
02-23-2013, 06:17 AM   #11
Veteran Member
reivax's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: California
Posts: 826
QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
I got my Sekonic 758DR used for $400 and I consider it probably the best money I've ever spent on a piece of photo gear. Don't think of it as something you have to buy, you can achieve very reliable reproducible results in a three light setup with a 5 dollar gray card and 3 bits of string. Think of a light meter as a tool that you can use to nail exposure in challenging situations on the first try. Think of it as a tool to help you balance ambient light with your strobes. Think of it as a way to enhance tonality in your black and white photos by practicing the Zone system. Think of it as something that will keep you from looking like a rank amateur in front of a paying client as you fiddle with power levels and chimp to see if you got it right. My light meter has completely changed the way I shoot (and because I shoot mostly films these days, it's expensive to miss, or bracket), yet when I bought it, I thought "oh, I guess I'll have to have one if I want to get my ratios right". I never dreamed anything could be so massively useful.

p.s. If you don't plan on shooting film and have no interest in using the Zone system, look around for a used Sekonic 358. It's their most popular model, so there are plenty to be had, usually around $200 US
After doing some research, I think I've figured out that my best choices are either the Sekonic 358 or the 478. I think the features of the 478 better suits my needs, but the fact that it is touchscreen really makes me skeptical about it. I just don't trust touchscreen technology enough for something like this. I have no issue with touchscreen in general - my phone, tablets, and laptop are all touchscreen - but I don't know how good a company like Sekonic would be with durability needed for touchscreen. It just seems like it would fail pretty easily.

Have you, or anyone else, had a chance to use/own this 478? Thanks.

Last edited by reivax; 02-23-2013 at 07:49 AM. Reason: Did some research, figured out my question, but have a new question.
02-23-2013, 06:10 PM   #12
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
JimJohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Summer:Lake Superior - Michigan Winter:Texas Hill Country
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,771
My light meters:
An inexpensive Sears branded reflective/incident meter I purchased new in the late 1970's. While in-camera reflective light metering has advanced leaps and bounds, I STILL find myself using this meter often enough to have a permanent home in my camera bag - especially for incident light metering which tends to be more accurate than reflective light metering.
A recently acquired Gossen Ascor Flash meter. These 1960's era professional level meters are known for their accuracy, and can be purchased relatively inexpensively. The only downside is the 15 volt battery is a bit hard to come by. For non-(P-)TTL flash - and especially once you move into multiple flash units, you'll wonder why you didn't buy a flash meter long ago (decades ago in my case). The use is very much like using an incident light meter.
02-23-2013, 06:12 PM   #13
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
maxfield_photo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,216
I got to play with the Sekonic 478 at a local camera show, it's pretty sweet, but it seems like it has a slightly steeper learning curve than the 358. One really fantastic thing about the 478 is you can control the power levels of Canon and Nikon speedlights from the meter itself via the Pocket Wizard Flex system.

Now as some folks may know, you can use a Pentax to trigger another brand's speedlight, you just have to be content with manual flash, or maybe auto thyristor if the flashgun offers that feature. But I think you should be able to set the power level manually on say a Nikon SB800 via the Sekonic 478 and then trigger it with a pocket wizard attached to a Pentax. It's an expensive solution to be sure, but I can't express how badly I want to be able to control my light levels from the camera position. If you're like me, it may be worth it.

The one thing that might cause issues is if the pocket wizard flex system uses proprietary TTL commands at the time of preflash talk, that might make this feature unavailable to Pentax shooters. I asked the MAC group rep at the camera show if this kind of thing was possible, but I got the feeling that I was the first person to ever broach the subject. His answer was "probably not" but I'm not convinced it won't work.
02-23-2013, 08:28 PM   #14
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
maxfield_photo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,216
In a private message to me, D Harvey asked:

QuoteOriginally posted by D Harvey:
Thank you for your responce on light meters. I am going to look for the sekonic 358.

I was wandering what it means to chimp?

How do I use 3 bits of string and a gray card?

I found it interesting that you shoot film, do you send it out for processing or is it black and white and you have a dark room? I have a darkroom in storage right now as I don't have room or time to use it in the home we have. I love shooting B/W and making my own prints, I was just starting to get the hang of it when it had to go to storage... I miss it.

Thanks D
I asked it it was ok to post his question and my response to the thread so here it is:

As far as light meters go the Sekonic 358 is a little darling of a meter. It has most of the features of it's big brother the 758 sans the spot meter and ability to create custom camera profile. In fact, I think there may even be a spotmeter attachment you can buy if you later decide that you want to use one. The main application for that these days is for subjects that emit light, like a neon sign, or highly reflective materials like chrome, or if you shoot film and you're a Zone System purist.

"Chimping" is simple, it means you take a shot and check your camera's LCD, take a shot and check the LCD, take a shot... You get the idea. You'll see a lot of new photographers doing this and it looks very unprofessional, especially to a paying client. Don't get me wrong, pros chimp too, they've done it for years. Back in the film days, medium format studio cameras could be fitted with Polaroid backs so that the photographer could check the exposure and quality of light. The difference is once the light were set up (which was always before the client got there) the Polaroid back was removed and the film back was attached, and after that there was no chimping to see if exposure was right, unless there was a major lighting change. A light meter helps to eliminate the guesswork when the pressure is on and time is of the essence.

As for the gray card, it's the poor man's light meter. Actually gray cards are astonishingly useful when you compare the cost to that of a light meter. Here's how it works. First turn off all but the light you want to meter (you can have a reasonable amount of ambient light if you're shutter speed is above 1/125th and your aperture is small, i.e. you don't have to work in the dark). You set up the gray card in the position where your subject will be, put your camera in manual mode, and get your aperture, ISO and shutter speed locked in. Let's say you want your key light to meter at f/8 at ISO 100, so set your camera for that. Stand under the light you want to meter and fill your camera's viewfinder with the gray card, and start snapping photos and checking the histogram. Adjust the power level or the distance of the light after each shot. When you see a spike directly in the center of your histogram, you have found the proper exposure for that light. Then do the same for the other lights, standing under each in turn. If you want your key light to be in a 2:1 ratio to your fill, you will want the fill to be at f/5.6 for this example, so set your camera's aperture to that. Also you can do the same for the background with the gray card as close as you can get it to the background. Most of the time I don't worry about getting background exposure precise, but if I'm doing a high key shoot, it's important. Then go back to your normal shooting position, and place the gray card again where the subject will be, and take one more exposure with all the lights turned on, this time only adjust your aperture, leave the output levels of the lights alone. This will give you your working exposure, say f/11, and it is to that aperture that you set your camera and you're off an rolling, just make sure your subject doesn't move too far forward or back.

The bits of string are used to measure the distance from the lights to your subject. Remember in grade school when you'd go to have your school pictures taken? The photographer would have everyone in a line and bring them in one at a time and sit them on a stool, and then run a piece of string from the light to your chin. That's because you can think of f/11 as an exposure, OR, you can think of it as a distance. That's what the string does. It tells you at this distance, proper exposure is f/11 at ISO 100, or whatever (once you've found it of course by using a gray card or a light meter). If you cut the light back by a stop, now proper exposure at the same distance becomes f/8. It doesn't matter what color the subject's skin is, what color his or her clothes are, "proper" exposure is based on the amount of light hitting the subject, not the amount being reflected. This is called "stringing" your lights.

As for the question about film, I shoot color and black and white film, both negatives and transparencies. I'm only just starting to develop my own, but I'm really finding that I get much better results then when I send them off to the lab. I'm especially excited because I'm starting to do some real zone system photography. I do shoot roll film for the moment, but that just means I have to commit to one development time for the entire roll, but I can push and pull to my heart's delight and not have to pay the lab extra and wait another week. The Sekonic spotmeter is invaluable to me in this effort. I keep a notebook and write down my highlight and shadow readings, and what I can't compensate for in the developing tank I can try to fix when I go to print using multi grade contrast filters in the enlarger. It's still a work in progress, so I'd prefer not to give advice until I've refined my technique, but I can say without hesitation that the light meter is at the center of whole process. Heck, my old Yashica TLR doesn't even have a light meter, so I'd really be stabbing in the dark without it.

Hope this has helped and like I said in my post, don't think of a light meters as something you have to buy, as if it were a chore. Sure, you can get by without it but instead think of it like a lens, something exciting and sexy. It's a tool that will dramatically improve your photos if you learn how to use it.

-Max

Last edited by maxfield_photo; 02-23-2013 at 08:35 PM.
02-24-2013, 10:09 AM   #15
Veteran Member
reivax's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: California
Posts: 826
QuoteOriginally posted by maxfield_photo Quote
I got to play with the Sekonic 478 at a local camera show, it's pretty sweet, but it seems like it has a slightly steeper learning curve than the 358. One really fantastic thing about the 478 is you can control the power levels of Canon and Nikon speedlights from the meter itself via the Pocket Wizard Flex system.

Now as some folks may know, you can use a Pentax to trigger another brand's speedlight, you just have to be content with manual flash, or maybe auto thyristor if the flashgun offers that feature. But I think you should be able to set the power level manually on say a Nikon SB800 via the Sekonic 478 and then trigger it with a pocket wizard attached to a Pentax. It's an expensive solution to be sure, but I can't express how badly I want to be able to control my light levels from the camera position. If you're like me, it may be worth it.

The one thing that might cause issues is if the pocket wizard flex system uses proprietary TTL commands at the time of preflash talk, that might make this feature unavailable to Pentax shooters. I asked the MAC group rep at the camera show if this kind of thing was possible, but I got the feeling that I was the first person to ever broach the subject. His answer was "probably not" but I'm not convinced it won't work.
So the wireless only works with Pocketwizard? Does Pocketwizard even make triggers for Pentax?

I've been trying to find a review/video that compares the 358 and the 478 and I can't find one. New to new, they're pretty close to the same price and the 478 looks nice, but I don't know if the features are worth it over a used 358.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
flash, light, lighting, meter, photo studio, strobist
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does your K1000 light meter do this...? Alliecat Film SLRs and Compact Film Cameras 8 10-03-2012 10:20 PM
Will K5 fix my low-light problems, or do I need fast glass? CX15 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 27 04-08-2012 12:40 AM
How to meter if you don't have a light meter? LFLee Pentax Medium Format 25 02-09-2012 11:45 AM
Do I really now need a light meter? atomic Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 15 11-15-2011 02:46 PM
advice needed, do i need a light meter? onallaitau Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 6 11-25-2008 05:29 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:40 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top