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04-16-2013, 10:15 AM   #1
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Using higher shutter speed with a flash for Hockey game

Hi, I have a K-5 + a AF 540FGZ flash
I intend to go to the local arena to capture some of my firends playing hockey
I intend to use my 50-135mm DA* zoom to capture the action
I did some tries in the arena with my setup, and the flash help on lighing the scene..but it seems to be limited to 1/180s

I am not sure how to setup the whole thing so can have shutter speeds superior than 1/180s... because hockey is quite a fast game.. I need more shutter speed

Is there a way to put the body/flash in manual mode to freez the action as much as possible ?

Need some help please (it going to be tomorrow evening)

thanks

Weevil


Last edited by Weevil; 04-16-2013 at 02:35 PM.
04-16-2013, 10:38 AM   #2
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Just shot my first hockey game this weekend. Skip the flash. Two things I might suggest. 1. ask if you can shoot from the bench if possible. Tried this but the refs told me no. 2. If they wont let you shoot from the bench try and find a vantage point as high as possible above the glass.
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04-16-2013, 10:46 AM   #3
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The short answer. Flash is not going to help.

Here is a link which talks about how to shoot hockey:
Hockey Photography: A How-To Guide
04-16-2013, 11:01 AM   #4
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I don't know anything about shooting hockey, but shutter speed doesn't mean the same thing in flash photography. With a flash, anything illuminated by the flash will have an effective shutter speed of the flash duration which can be something like 1/10000s.

04-16-2013, 11:21 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by mflagg Quote
Just shot my first hockey game this weekend. Skip the flash. Two things I might suggest. 1. ask if you can shoot from the bench if possible. Tried this but the refs told me no. 2. If they wont let you shoot from the bench try and find a vantage point as high as possible above the glass.
Battle and Brew - Jackson Taylor Photography-Michael Flagg
Yes I could be on the bench... it is my "garage league" so we pay the ref ;-)
I can be almost anywhere... Normally I would have played, but injuried my ankle a week ago... so I am taking this opportunity to do some photos (because we never had someone who did that in the past)

QuoteOriginally posted by psychdoc Quote
The short answer. Flash is not going to help.
Here is a link which talks about how to shoot hockey:
Hockey Photography: A How-To Guide
Thanks, I'll look into it !

QuoteOriginally posted by L33tGreg Quote
I don't know anything about shooting hockey, but shutter speed doesn't mean the same thing in flash photography. With a flash, anything illuminated by the flash will have an effective shutter speed of the flash duration which can be something like 1/10000s.
OK, thanks... new thing to learn for me... I don't catch, but I'll do some research about that...


I normally shoot in manual or Av mode... in this case, should I I use Tv or TAv ?
and about the flash, in which mode should I set it up ? Manual ? P-TTL or ???) (ok, ok, I havent read the above link... but in my testing I have used a K 200mm _ 1.7x AFA, and I am pretty sure the flash (put in manual mode, 100%) helped a lot... at least for the goalie (more static)
when I have some more time I'll put some of my testing pics ...

thanks to all for you replies...
04-16-2013, 11:27 AM   #6
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Weevil, what you're looking for is called HSS and it allows shutterspeeds faster than 1/180s. Read you manuals I don't think that it will help in this case, though. One of the reasons is that your guide number is going to be reduced significantly (see table on page 84 of the flash manual).

QuoteOriginally posted by L33tGreg Quote
I don't know anything about shooting hockey, but shutter speed doesn't mean the same thing in flash photography. With a flash, anything illuminated by the flash will have an effective shutter speed of the flash duration which can be something like 1/10000s.
In pitch black, that is true. But with ambient light around, you might still get the blur from moving players during the time that the shutter is open.

Last edited by sterretje; 04-16-2013 at 11:44 AM.
04-16-2013, 12:00 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by psychdoc Quote
The short answer. Flash is not going to help.

Here is a link which talks about how to shoot hockey:
Hockey Photography: A How-To Guide
Excellent article on how to shoot a hockey game. Applies to basketball as well. Most of the gyms I shot at this winter were even more poorly lit than the hockey rinks

04-16-2013, 02:34 PM   #8
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OK, thanks to all for your answers... I'll do my homework tonight (i.e. RTFM among others... ) :-)
04-16-2013, 03:52 PM   #9
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04-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #10
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HSS is not likely to help you with hockey or similar sports. 1/180th second is the fastest speed in which the shutter opening is fully open. Your flash fires once while the shutter is completely open. As noted, so long as ambient light contributes little to the exposure, the much faster electronic flash will perform stop-motion photography.

For all shutter speeds faster than 1/180th you have a moving slit as the trailing curtain chases the leading curtain across the face of the sensor. How HSS works is to repeatedly strobe your flash as the slit crosses your sensor.

For still subjects this allows you to use a higher shutter speed to offset ambient light. However on moving objects, depending on the direction of movement, you get multiple exposures of the moving object, once per flash strobe, as it moves. You can turn this into an artistic advantage, but it won't help at all if your intended purpose was to perform stop-motion photography.
04-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Weevil Quote
but it seems to be limited to 1/180s
You need to use HSS for that, but you will loose power.

You do not need a flash for hockey with the body and lens you are using. Set the lens at f2.8, bump your ISO, and you'll be all set. Prefocusing will be harder than getting enough light.
04-17-2013, 12:59 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Weevil Quote
should I I use Tv or TAv ?
I am by no means an expert but, IMHO, Tav is AWESOME for hockey. Especially in rinks with dim and uneven lighting. Set 1/320 - 1/500 (ish) depending on the age of the players and speed of the game.and f/2.8 as suggested earlier. Let the ISO wander wherever it will. I usually shoot jpg to get the highest frame rate and custom white balance to the ice. Then dial in maybe EV +1 (ish) make the ice white and the player's faces bright enough to see in their helmets.

I have also tried flash and have found what others suggest to be true. The burst of light does kind of freeze the action more than shooting 1/180 without flash but the shutter being open so long has the overall effect of creating a bright image with blurry/ghosty edges so it's best to shoot without and deal with the high ISO noise in PP.
04-18-2013, 07:58 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Weevil Quote
I normally shoot in manual or Av mode... in this case, should I I use Tv or TAv ?
M is by far the best option. Once you get the right settings you are good to go for the duration. The problem with any automated settings is that your exposure will be jumping around depending on who/what is in frame, especially what colour jumper they have on and how bright it is. In reality your lighting conditions are absolutely predicable and unchanging, this is made for manual mode... man up!
04-19-2013, 05:44 AM   #14
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I've shot thousands of pictures at hockey games. Before from close stands, above the glass, but this year I've shot along the boards with my new K-30 and my Tamrom 28-72 f2.8. Settings will depend a lot on the rink.
I work mainly in one rink that has somewhat crappy lights. game looks fine, and it doesn't look "dark" but the few times I've been to other rinks I've been able to increase my shutter speed significantly because they have much brighter overhead lights.

Set your white balance first.
You've basically got a couple ways you can do this. You can get yourself a huge lens and stand at one end and shoot down the rink, maybe keep a second body with a short lens for plays at your end.
You can stand in the middle with a mid-range zoom and get both ends (if you could get the space between the benches for example)
Or, you could do like I do and float a little. I tend to shoot from the side board rather than on the end. Gives me a decent goalie perspective and good neutral zone and high slot pictures. On icings and powerplays that are likely to carry on, I'll move down to those ends. I find the 28-72 to be a decent lens for hockey as it lets me zoom out enough if they come in against the boards and at the high end it gives me a decent amount of detail on the other side of the ice. If I had an 18-135 (or around that range) that was fast, I'd probably take that though.

I generally shoot at ISO 800, and sometimes vary between F2.8 and F4.0 depending on how I feel that day. Shutter speed depends on the rink. In my usual rink I can run that about 1/350, but in other rinks I can get it up to 1/750 or I can drop down to ISO 400.

practice panning a lot. Hockey, like any other high speed sport, is a lot about luck. Set your camera on high speed drive mode when they go for a shot, or crash the net, just keep firing.
These are public galleries/photos, i use facebook as I'm hooked up with a lot of the players from the Asia League sharing photos with them.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151325622513292&set=a.101512408358...7200.513018291
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151325644518292&set=a.101512408358...7200.513018291
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151351432618292&set=a.101512408358...7200.513018291
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151352426463292&set=a.101512408358...7200.513018291
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151352443543292&set=a.101512408358...7200.513018291

I don't get every single shot with my style, but I feel that I get slightly different shots from others. There is a pro guy there, canon, 2 expensive bodies, big glass, even mounts a camera at one end with a pocket wizard on it, and points it at the opposing goal (from behind) , but He just stands in one corner with his giant glass and shoots down one line. Some of his photos turn out well, but they're all basically of the same thing. Guys skating down the ice at him. and shots from behind the goalie or through the traffic at the net.
Some of his shots of players fighting down the ice with the puck are okay, but he doesn't really get much in the way of net crashes and stuff like that because of his angles. He occasionally moves up into the stands to shoot with the long glass.
04-19-2013, 06:26 AM   #15
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The *50-135 is fairly sharp wide open, at f/3.5 it is plenty sharp. Use TAV mode, set aperture @ 3.5, shutter speed 1/320, and set your ISO range from low to 4000 those settings should work fine for you...
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