[BrianR]

To get a jumping spider in the air you would need something seriously quick. My metz 50Af has a chart in the back where it says that at 1/16 power the flash is 1/6000 long. If I underexpose the scene 3 or 4 stops, shutter at 180, wouldn't the flash freeze movement? Usually macro is pretty close so the powerful flashes we use for light at a distance would have plenty of light for a close up like that. I know that with birds I can't freeze movement at 1/500.

Yes, that's exactly how it works. Kill the ambient, light solely with flashes that have very short duration and you can freeze most movement which also makes hand holding feasible. Most hot-shoe flashes at low power will fit the bill here, but some will be better than others.

dudes, go out and shot some 5 to 10mm bugs with 250s and 180s with DCR 250 and 70 to 100mm FL, it helps to understand where I am coming from if my explanation couldn't make any sense to you. If one word could sum it up, it is keeper rate. Have a good day all.

I don't normally go beyond 1:1. but I do occasionally go out with a 1.4 teleconverter on my 100mm macro for a 1.4 times life size image. Lady bugs were my target the other day, shutter speed 1/125s, iso 200, f/16. This totally killed the evening light, so it's lit solely by one flash at lowish power (sunpak 433d at probably 1/8th power), and handheld. None were rejected due to motion blur, only missing focus occasionally but that had nothing to do with shutter speed:




I can only guess that you're trying to make use of the ambient light as well as the flash while handholding at high magnifications, but you seem reluctant to comment directly on this? If that's your plan, I wish you luck because I think you're going to need it

[lightbulb]

I don't normally go beyond 1:1. but I do occasionally go out with a 1.4 teleconverter on my 100mm macro for a 1.4 times life size image. Lady bugs were my target the other day, shutter speed 1/125s, iso 200, f/16. This totally killed the evening light, so it's lit solely by one flash at lowish power (sunpak 433d at probably 1/8th power), and handheld. None were rejected due to motion blur, only missing focus occasionally but that had nothing to do with shutter speed:




I can only guess that you're trying to make use of the ambient light as well as the flash while handholding at high magnifications, but you seem reluctant to comment directly on this? If that's your plan, I wish you luck because I think you're going to need it

Thanks For the well wishes. You are the most Knowledgeable extreme macro shooter that has never tried it.

Look how lucky am I :

[BrianR]

Thanks For the well wishes. You are the most Knowledgeable extreme macro shooter that has never tried it.

Look how lucky am I :

You know, I'm just trying to help. Your examples were at 1/180th, looked pretty sharp, and were lit by a flash, so I'm still trying to understand why a shorter shutter speed will help here. I've been open to the idea that I'm missing something but you keep refusing to explain what, outside of a cryptic 'keeper rate'. There's no need to be rude, sarcastic, or uncooperative.

Again, all the best in your endeavers.

[lightbulb]

My apologies for being an @ss at times......... you have a great day my friend....

[BrianR]

My apologies for being an @ss at times......... you have a great day my friend....

Accepted, and I'll also apologize if I was irritable and pushed you towards @ssery in any way.

I had a look at your stream, and you have some nice insect closeups. It also answered my question about the ambient and it looks to me like you are killing it, meaning if you took a photo with the same settings except turned off your flash, the frame would be totally dark. Under these circumstances, increasing the shutter speed to 1/250, or 1/500, or anything else will have no effect at all (assuming you're still within the x-sync). The shutter speed only affects motion blur caused by the ambient, and since you've already killed that off, faster won't help. What matters for freezing motion when the ambient has been killed is the t.1 time of your lights. The t.1 time is roughly how long it takes for the flash to fire off most of its power and is a good indication of the flashes ability to stop motion (from subject movement or camera shake) and get scary sharp photos.

It also looks like you're using the built in flash fired through a diffuser. If you're finding you sometimes get some motion blur even though the ambient has been killed, this is likely the issue. I've never seen t.1 times measured for a built-in flash, but in general for small speedlights they are not excellent at or near full power. The built-in flash is weak so you are likely pushing it to or near full power, especially since it's going through a power robbing diffuser (which is a great thing for the look it achieves of course).

Have a look at Andy Gock : Newcastle Photographer Actual Measured Flash Durations of Small Speedlight Strobes for some t.1 times of a few hotshoe flashes. At full power, most of them have a t.1 time no better than 1/300s. I wouldn't trust this when hand holding at 1:1 magnification, and it's almost surely insufficient for higher magnifications. Even at half power on my SB-28 is listed at 1/954s, this is getting borderline for reliably sharp photos at 1:1. I'm usually firing through a light robbing homemade diffuser (6"x8") and try to stay at 1/8th power or lower, but I don't usually have any problems at 1/4 even with a 1.4 teleconvertor on.

There's no difference in the interplay between flash, ambient, and shutter speed at higher magnifications. You may need shorter t.1 times as you're more subject to camera shake, but how to get this is the same- kill ambient, position your flashes so they can fire at low power so it has a short enough flash burst to freeze whatever you're doing. Most of the big hot shoe units will probably get you what you want. As I've said, I don't spend much time beyond 1:1 magnification, but I do spend oodles of time using external flashes to enable handheld macro shots at lower magnifications. I looks to me like your experience is the reverse of mine and that you're chasing the wrong thing for what you're trying to do (higher shutter speed with a flash). I could still be wrong on your goals though.

[lightbulb]

Thanks for the info will find time to digest it, and of course let's move on .

Btw I have just bought a yongnuo Flash and I hope it improves things a bit. Turned out that soft pictures that I had aren't necessarily about motion blur but lens limitation! If you are going into macro seriously I highly recommend the sigma 70mm macro lens

Cheers!

[BrianR]

Thanks for the info will find time to digest it, and of course let's move on .

Happy to

Btw I have just bought a yongnuo Flash and I hope it improves things a bit. Turned out that soft pictures that I had aren't necessarily about motion blur but lens limitation! If you are going into macro seriously I highly recommend the sigma 70mm macro lens

Cheers!

Enjoy your new light. Most of the dedicated macros, like your sigma, get excellent reviews image quality wise especially on the sharpness front. I use a DFA100mm (the older non-WR version), and my biggest regret was not buying it sooner than I did. A dedicated macro is really a joy if you're into this sort of thing

[lightbulb]

Yes I am also researching on reverse lens and extensions. Going to be busy

[sudomark3]

Hello
I think flash using in midlight ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,