Yongnuo YN560-III Flash chart question

Driline · 12-09-2013, 06:12 PM - **1 Like**

I copied this YN560 flash chart that KLH created and usrbrv8 rebuilt in an excel spread sheet. I have a DA 21 lens I want to shoot for a family portrait and am trying to figure out what settings I need for both camera and flash. I'll be about 15' away from the subjects. Our great room has a 25' wooden vaulted ceiling so there is no white ceiling to bounce the flash off of.

1) Does the zoom number refer to the lens focal length? So my DA 21 would approximate the 24mm on the chart?
2) I would like to use Aperture priority at 5.6 to obtain the best sharpness. Can I use AV or do I have to use M?
3) Do I set the ISO to 100?

So the manual flash really only has two functions for what I need it for. 1. Set the zoom 2. Set the flash output power.

Here's our Great room. We'll have about 25 people in the shot.

Last edited by Driline; 12-09-2013 at 06:19 PM.

elliott · 12-09-2013, 06:30 PM

The zoom corresponds to the zoom level of the flash, it determines how wide the beam is. Ideally you want the beam to cover just what is needed and have as little wasted light as possible, with the 21mm you would probably be best to use 28mm because it is relating to full frame instead of APS-C and 21mm is the equivalent of 31mm and 35mm might be cause dark edges.

Use M and set the shutter speed according to the ambient light sources and what is reasonable.

Use whatever ISO you need to get everything balanced the way you want.

Are you using the flash as a fill or a main light source?

Driline · 12-09-2013, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by elliott

The zoom corresponds to the zoom level of the flash, it determines how wide the beam is. Ideally you want the beam to cover just what is needed and have as little wasted light as possible, with the 21mm you would probably be best to use 28mm because it is relating to full frame instead of APS-C and 21mm is the equivalent of 31mm and 35mm might be cause dark edges.

Use M and set the shutter speed according to the ambient light sources and what is reasonable.

Use whatever ISO you need to get everything balanced the way you want.

Are you using the flash as a fill or a main light source?

Main light source.

elliott · 12-09-2013, 08:41 PM - **1 Like**

Your ISO and shutter speed is mostly going to come down to what you want to do with the light around you that isn't flash. If you aren't wanting the overhead lighting to contribute to the exposure at all, then 100 ISO and 1/180s shutter are fine. If you want to allow some ambient in then drop the shutter speed and/or raise the ISO, while lowering the flash power to compensate for the raised ISO.

Driline · 12-09-2013, 10:13 PM

Must I use manual on the camera mode or can I use aperture priority?

elliott · 12-09-2013, 10:26 PM

Manual is usually best, since it might not choose the best shutter speed on its own. With the Yongnuo it won't know there is a flash connected, it will be metering purely on ambient light and won't know there will be a flash.

You shutter speed doesn't affect the flash exposure at all, it is only controlling the ambient half of the exposure.

Driline · 12-10-2013, 07:23 AM

Thanks for the help. So really this chart is not really of any use?

elliott · 12-10-2013, 12:13 PM

The chart is very useful, unless you want to set your flash exposure completely by trial and error or are able to do it just by experience once you're familiar with the flash. You'll still likely have to dial it in a little afterwards, but the chart gives you a good starting point.

If you are using a flash modifier, such as a softbox, you're going to have to compensate for that. Each one is different so some trial and error is involved to know just how much you have to shift the exposure when using it.

**klh** · 12-10-2013, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Driline

Thanks for the help. So really this chart is not really of any use?

It is useful if you're a novice like me!

I do find that I'm using it less as I get the feel for where to set the flash and exposure, but I made it to help me get started with a shot similar to what you are doing. Using your example, you say you want to use f/5.6 and ISO 100. In order to get a wide beam to match the DA21, you want to set the flash zoom to 28mm as suggested. If you are using on-camera flash with no umbrellas or soft-boxes at a distance from the group of 15 feet, then we can read the chart to know that the flash will likely need to be set at full power (because the full power will light up the scene from a distance 17.5 feet which is close enough). If it's too bright, try one step down from full power, or put a paper tissue in front of the lens. The downside is that the flash will take a while to power up so you have to have everybody stay put if you want to try multiple shots.

With that as a starting point, here a few suggestions from what I have learned using a similar setup.

First, I would recommend that you go to f/8 to be sure that everyone in the group is in focus. That reduces your light by half. If you want to keep everything else the same, simply go to ISO 200.

Second, a single on-camera flash will be hard light and you will get red eye and a snapshot look. If possible, try to use off-camera with an umbrella (or hang a thin white sheet in front of the flash). So let's assume you can put the off-camera flash on a stand off-center from the camera with an umbrella. The umbrella will lower the light about a stop, so now you would need to move the stand closer to the group to about 12 feet away to keep the same settings.

Another option would be to bounce off the back wall (if that's possible) or that nice side wall that I see. In this case you will need to add 2-4 stops depending on how reflective the wall is and how far from the flash it is. Also note that this will affect your white balance.

Finally, I would also suggest using two flashes with a group this size to get more even light across the group. Otherwise you will likely have part of the group too bright and part too dark. In this case both flashes will add to the light, so you should be able to go back a stop to ISO 100, f/8. Better yet, bounce two flashes off side walls and up the ISO until the exposure is correct.

Best wishes,
Kevin

Driline · 12-10-2013, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by klh

First, I would recommend that you go to f/8 to be sure that everyone in the group is in focus. That reduces your light by half. If you want to keep everything else the same, simply go to ISO 200.

Thanks. Maybe this chart will come in handy.

Driline · 08-30-2014, 08:59 AM

Well, the flash died 8 months into ownership. Probably only used 3 or 4 times. The wiring harness between the main body and flash has an open in it. The flash will not work pointed up, but forward firing it works 50% of the time. I guess you get what you pay for. I'll be looking for a Metz or Pentax flash next purchase. I left a One star review on Amazon. Apparently 33 other people had theirs crash on them too.

12-09-2013, 06:12 PM - 1 Like	#1
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,704	Yongnuo YN560-III Flash chart question I copied this YN560 flash chart that KLH created and usrbrv8 rebuilt in an excel spread sheet. I have a DA 21 lens I want to shoot for a family portrait and am trying to figure out what settings I need for both camera and flash. I'll be about 15' away from the subjects. Our great room has a 25' wooden vaulted ceiling so there is no white ceiling to bounce the flash off of. 1) Does the zoom number refer to the lens focal length? So my DA 21 would approximate the 24mm on the chart? 2) I would like to use Aperture priority at 5.6 to obtain the best sharpness. Can I use AV or do I have to use M? 3) Do I set the ISO to 100? So the manual flash really only has two functions for what I need it for. 1. Set the zoom 2. Set the flash output power. Here's our Great room. We'll have about 25 people in the shot. Last edited by Driline; 12-09-2013 at 06:19 PM.

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12-09-2013, 06:30 PM	#2
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	The zoom corresponds to the zoom level of the flash, it determines how wide the beam is. Ideally you want the beam to cover just what is needed and have as little wasted light as possible, with the 21mm you would probably be best to use 28mm because it is relating to full frame instead of APS-C and 21mm is the equivalent of 31mm and 35mm might be cause dark edges. Use M and set the shutter speed according to the ambient light sources and what is reasonable. Use whatever ISO you need to get everything balanced the way you want. Are you using the flash as a fill or a main light source?

12-09-2013, 07:06 PM	#3
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,704 Original Poster	Originally posted by elliott The zoom corresponds to the zoom level of the flash, it determines how wide the beam is. Ideally you want the beam to cover just what is needed and have as little wasted light as possible, with the 21mm you would probably be best to use 28mm because it is relating to full frame instead of APS-C and 21mm is the equivalent of 31mm and 35mm might be cause dark edges. Use M and set the shutter speed according to the ambient light sources and what is reasonable. Use whatever ISO you need to get everything balanced the way you want. Are you using the flash as a fill or a main light source? Main light source.

12-09-2013, 08:41 PM - 1 Like	#4
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Your ISO and shutter speed is mostly going to come down to what you want to do with the light around you that isn't flash. If you aren't wanting the overhead lighting to contribute to the exposure at all, then 100 ISO and 1/180s shutter are fine. If you want to allow some ambient in then drop the shutter speed and/or raise the ISO, while lowering the flash power to compensate for the raised ISO.

12-09-2013, 10:13 PM	#5
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,704 Original Poster	Must I use manual on the camera mode or can I use aperture priority?

12-09-2013, 10:26 PM	#6
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Manual is usually best, since it might not choose the best shutter speed on its own. With the Yongnuo it won't know there is a flash connected, it will be metering purely on ambient light and won't know there will be a flash. You shutter speed doesn't affect the flash exposure at all, it is only controlling the ambient half of the exposure.

12-10-2013, 07:23 AM	#7
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,704 Original Poster	Thanks for the help. So really this chart is not really of any use?

12-10-2013, 12:13 PM	#8
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	The chart is very useful, unless you want to set your flash exposure completely by trial and error or are able to do it just by experience once you're familiar with the flash. You'll still likely have to dial it in a little afterwards, but the chart gives you a good starting point. If you are using a flash modifier, such as a softbox, you're going to have to compensate for that. Each one is different so some trial and error is involved to know just how much you have to shift the exposure when using it.

12-10-2013, 12:15 PM	#9
klh Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2009 Location: West Lafayette, Indiana, USA Posts: 827	Originally posted by Driline Thanks for the help. So really this chart is not really of any use? It is useful if you're a novice like me! I do find that I'm using it less as I get the feel for where to set the flash and exposure, but I made it to help me get started with a shot similar to what you are doing. Using your example, you say you want to use f/5.6 and ISO 100. In order to get a wide beam to match the DA21, you want to set the flash zoom to 28mm as suggested. If you are using on-camera flash with no umbrellas or soft-boxes at a distance from the group of 15 feet, then we can read the chart to know that the flash will likely need to be set at full power (because the full power will light up the scene from a distance 17.5 feet which is close enough). If it's too bright, try one step down from full power, or put a paper tissue in front of the lens. The downside is that the flash will take a while to power up so you have to have everybody stay put if you want to try multiple shots. With that as a starting point, here a few suggestions from what I have learned using a similar setup. First, I would recommend that you go to f/8 to be sure that everyone in the group is in focus. That reduces your light by half. If you want to keep everything else the same, simply go to ISO 200. Second, a single on-camera flash will be hard light and you will get red eye and a snapshot look. If possible, try to use off-camera with an umbrella (or hang a thin white sheet in front of the flash). So let's assume you can put the off-camera flash on a stand off-center from the camera with an umbrella. The umbrella will lower the light about a stop, so now you would need to move the stand closer to the group to about 12 feet away to keep the same settings. Another option would be to bounce off the back wall (if that's possible) or that nice side wall that I see. In this case you will need to add 2-4 stops depending on how reflective the wall is and how far from the flash it is. Also note that this will affect your white balance. Finally, I would also suggest using two flashes with a group this size to get more even light across the group. Otherwise you will likely have part of the group too bright and part too dark. In this case both flashes will add to the light, so you should be able to go back a stop to ISO 100, f/8. Better yet, bounce two flashes off side walls and up the ISO until the exposure is correct. Best wishes, Kevin

12-10-2013, 07:19 PM	#10
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,704 Original Poster	Originally posted by klh First, I would recommend that you go to f/8 to be sure that everyone in the group is in focus. That reduces your light by half. If you want to keep everything else the same, simply go to ISO 200. Thanks. Maybe this chart will come in handy.

08-30-2014, 08:59 AM	#11
Driline Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: IOWA Where the Tall Corn Grows Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,704 Original Poster	Well, the flash died 8 months into ownership. Probably only used 3 or 4 times. The wiring harness between the main body and flash has an open in it. The flash will not work pointed up, but forward firing it works 50% of the time. I guess you get what you pay for. I'll be looking for a Metz or Pentax flash next purchase. I left a One star review on Amazon. Apparently 33 other people had theirs crash on them too.