[panicAttack]

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First of all, greetings to pentax community, and excuse my English!

I've been following these forums for a very long time, after I bought my first DSLR, pentax k-x, and today when I want to log in and ask these questions, it was surprise to me that i haven't even been registered.

Today I'm still with k-x, great 18-55 kit lens (for the budget), old pentax extremely sharp 50 1.7 manual lens, sharp and great 55-300.

I'll probably upgrade body to k-5 II, but not any time soon, and buy 10-20 sigma lens, but all these doesn't matter much for this conversation.

I'm not beginner in the photography, but I'm completely beginner in flash/strobes, studio lighting, and need your advice.

I'll probably shoot portraits, full and half body figures, and some small objects, mostly over white backgrounds, maybe sometimes gray or black.

few things i know is that minimum of 3 light sources, 2-3 stands, rolling paper (white, grey, black) and that i would love to use HSS so maybe flashes (not strobes) are my choice?

my budget is from 400 to 500 $, maybe I can go more, but not too much.

so questions are:

1. is k-x capable of HSS, is it wireless HSS and if it isn't what kind of HSS is it?

2. if HSS is flash, not camera based, what are the cheapest flashes with that options? and how to trigger it with k-x?

3. i'm not sure what is p-ttl or ttl, but I'm good with manually setting flashes if those options are something that automatically do that, and because of that flash prices go much higher

4. strobes cannot do high speed sync?

5. softboxes or umbrellas? or both? short explain why please?

6. if anyone think that I would first need to upgrade my k-x, please say so. For what I shoot now, I'm very satisfied, but never done studio photography.

7. if I need to put master flash on camera hot shoe, what are best options not to flash harshly and directly to the subject?

8. what radio triggers work good with k-x and 2-3 flashes?

9. if I use built in pop-up flash for trigger, will it fire or just trigger those other flashes?

10. for HSS, is it possible to put max sync speed (1/180) on camera but just to light with flash for 1/500-1000 or shorter duration? will effect be the same?

11. if 10th question is answered "yes", i suspect flash power will be much lower, so it will be harder to light everything correctly?

Thank you very much for your patience and answers

Best regards

Nikola

[narual]

Is HSS really a factor for studio lighting? I thought that was more for outdoor photography to help light fast moving things or to help fill flash photos in bright light.

[panicAttack]

Is HSS really a factor for studio lighting? I thought that was more for outdoor photography to help light fast moving things or to help fill flash photos in bright light.

hey natural, thanks for the answer

far as i know, hss is good for fill flash and outdoor fast moving photos, but what about action movement of full body studio portraits or some liquid splashes like water balloons? that's why i need HSS functions.

if my budget is too low for these, i can start with only 2 flashes, but what is the best way to trigger them with k-x, and do you recommend umbrellas or soft boxes for them at the beginning?

[narual]

hey natural, thanks for the answer

far as i know, hss is good for fill flash and outdoor fast moving photos, but what about action movement of full body studio portraits or some liquid splashes like water balloons? that's why i need HSS functions.

if my budget is too low for these, i can start with only 2 flashes, but what is the best way to trigger them with k-x, and do you recommend umbrellas or soft boxes for them at the beginning?

For stuff like water balloons, you probably need off-camera flash hooked up to a sound trigger. Then you just set a 5 second or whatever exposure with the lights off, pop the balloon and the sound will trigger the flash, and only that part will be exposed.

Have you gone over the lighting 101 tutorial on the Strobist website? I'd read that before you buy anything.
Strobist: Lighting 101

[elliott]

what about action movement of full body studio portraits or some liquid splashes like water balloons? that's why i need HSS functions.

Actually, HSS is worse for that, it works by strobing the flash instead of putting out one quick burst. A flash at low power will be quicker than your shutter speed ever could be. In the case of your K-x you only have 1/6000s, my K-5 has 1/8000s, but a YN-560 flash at 1/128 power has a flash duration of less than 1/20000s. If the flash is the main source of light and all ambient light is underexposed, it doesn't matter if your shutter speed is 1/180s or 1/2s, the exposure will look the same.

This was done at 1/128 power with my YN-560:

[panicAttack]

@natural, thanks, i never knew that sound can trigger flash, do I need some expensive tools for that?

@elliott, wow, fantastic shot, that is what I'm talking about. Isn't that HSS? if not, what method is it and is it hard to achieve with pentax k-x and 2-3 external flashes? can it be done to portrait or full body figure shots?

in the matter of fact, does high speed sync has anything to do with this fast action movement stopped? I always thought these can only be done with HSS flashes?

Can it be achieved for example with low iso (100-400), manual focus pre-locked on person/object, starting exposure (duration from 1/6000 to bulb, doesn't matter) and manually setting off the flash when necessary?

thanks!

[elliott]

@elliott, wow, fantastic shot, that is what I'm talking about. Isn't that HSS? if not, what method is it and is it hard to achieve with pentax k-x and 2-3 external flashes? can it be done to portrait or full body figure shots?

in the matter of fact, does high speed sync has anything to do with this fast action movement stopped? I always thought these can only be done with HSS flashes?

Can it be achieved for example with low iso (100-400), manual focus pre-locked on person/object, starting exposure (duration from 1/6000 to bulb, doesn't matter) and manually setting off the flash when necessary?

thanks!

That is just normal sync at 1/180s shutter, but because the flash duration is 1/23,000s and all ambient light is underexposed it is the same effect as having a 1/23,000s shutter speed. No fancy tricks involved at all, just a simple manual flash with a short duration. To do this with a larger subject you'd likely need multiple flashes because the output of the YN-560 at 1/128 power is very low. The exact same effect can be achieved with a very long shutter and triggering the flash by hand, but that requires a pretty dark room.


This video will help you understand how flash sync relates to shutter speed. Notice how at 1/100s the entire sensor is exposed at the same time, this is the point where the flash must be triggered for you to get a proper exposure. At 1/1000s only a small slit of the sensor is exposed at a time, if the flash is triggered at any point only that small slit will be exposed.

You Tube

You Tube

All HSS does is allow the flash to be used at shutter speeds faster than 1/180, it has nothing to do with the ability to freeze motion. It is a trick where the flash is actually on for longer than the shutter speed so that the full frame can be exposed because at fast shutter speeds the whole frame is not exposed at once. To achieve HSS the flash duration must be long enough to expose the entire frame, if the shutter speed is 1/1000s and only 1/5 of the frame is exposed at any given time, the flash duration must be around 1/200s. Also, because of how this works, that effectively cuts your flash's power by 1/5, not ideal.

[maxfield_photo]

"High Speed" Sync should really be called "Bright Light" Sync, it is not used to freeze motion. What you want is an ultra short flash duration, and that is achieved by setting the flash to low power. Inexpensive manual speedlights may be the way to, but it may take a few all firing at once to illuminate your subject, depending on how big your subject is. Or if you want to spend your whole budget on a more powerful solution, you might look at the Paul C Buff "Einstein" studio light. It has a very short duration, and it's way cheaper than say a Broncolor pack and head system.

[kenyee]

Nikola: go to this site and read all the tutorials before you start buying gear: Strobist

FWIW, I learned studio lighting by using SB28's on my Pentax DSLRs w/ various triggers (never bothered w/ Pentax TTL flashes because people kept saying exposure was flaky until the K-3)...favorite for that is the Radiopopper JrX Studios if you want remote power control.
You can't buy studio strobes on your budget w/o a lot of compromises, though you can probably find a used AB1600 for $250 and then get a few modifiers to start off by learning one light w/ reflectors...

[panicAttack]

@elliott so, it looks like anything slower then 1/180 is good, thanks for the answer and now i do understand when I saw that video. full sensor need to be exposed.I guess that I will never shoot even at 1/180, because believe it's impossible to manually sync first shutter, then flash with that fast shutter speed. Low lights and longer exposure should do the trick. Thanks! I do not believe that I need lowering flash power that much... 1/32 can be okey to freeze some motions.

@maxfield_photo thanks, but this one is too expensive and maybe I would want to take out some of the equipment, so flash have advance here. maybe some day...

@kenyee thanks, I checked this link and it's great for beginners like me.

so, three more technical questions are:

1. what trigger work to trigger one or more yongnuo's flashes at the same time?

2. what trigger is work for k-x, and so it can work later on for example k-5 II or k-3 one day, or is the trigger even related with camera body that much, or just with manufacturer?

3. If i want to take single flash and put it on k-x hot-shoe, after manually setting exposure and power of flash, can flash be activated with just pressing shutter button on my camera?

4. what yongnuo flash do you recommend for beginner? with my budget I would like to buy at least 2 flashes and these two sets: CowboyStudio Flash Kit

thanks again for your patience!

[elliott]

do not believe that I need lowering flash power that much... 1/32 can be okey to freeze some motions.

If you get a Yongnuo YN-560 1/32 power is still about 1/12000s, so more than enough to freeze most motion.

1. what trigger work to trigger one or more yongnuo's flashes at the same time?

2. what trigger is work for k-x, and so it can work later on for example k-5 II or k-3 one day, or is the trigger even related with camera body that much, or just with manufacturer?

I use Yongnuo triggers, but unmodified my RF-602s have issues syncing faster than 1/125 shutter. Some people have better luck than others with Yongnuo, but Cactus V5 triggers are considered the most reliable option for a reasonable price.

3. If i want to take single flash and put it on k-x hot-shoe, after manually setting exposure and power of flash, can flash be activated with just pressing shutter button on my camera?

Yes, manual flashes work fine in the hotshoe.

4. what yongnuo flash do you recommend for beginner? with my budget I would like to buy at least 2 flashes and these two sets: CowboyStudio Flash Kit

I love the Yongnuo YN-560 for the price, but I also have some older Vivitar and Sunpak flashes that I use all the time as well. You need to be careful with trigger voltage with older flashes, they can damage the camera.

[narual]

@natural, thanks, i never knew that sound can trigger flash, do I need some expensive tools for that?

Depends how you define expensive, and how sensitive you need it to be. You can get a micro sound trigger for about $25 plus shipping. It requires a $20 cable. You can get a pack with a sound, laser, and lightning trigger for $60 plus shipping (needs the same $20 cable). Or you can get a higher end sound trigger for $80 (same $20 cable). And there are probably other options on the internet… this is just from the seller I bought mine from: pantelis51 | eBay

I know there's a way to hook it up to an off-camera flash instead of the camera, but I haven't bothered. Probably by getting a hot shoe adapter that has a stereo cable, like the one they talk about on the Strobist site: Strobist: Universal Translator Ushers in New Age of Cheap, Off-Camera Harmony

[panicAttack]

both of you guys mentioned cable, k-x doesn't have cable plug in, only wireless, and I'm still far away from k-5 II or k-3

so, cactus v5 is more reliable choice then yongnuo rf-602? what about rf-603? there are three models I can find, C1, C3 and N1. N2, and N3... there is no "P"

also, do I need some kind of receiver on those flashes or is it enough to have 1 trigger and 2,3, or more flashes and they work fine?

and the last questions about flashes is... is it better to buy 2 yongnuo 560 II, or 3 yongnuo 460 II for a start ?

thank you!!

[narual]

You should really just go read the strobist site. They even sell prebuilt kits with the things you'd need at various price ranges.

And apologies, personally I don't know about the capabilities of any camera except the one I have and the ones I've looked at upgrading to. You can't use a wired shutter release, that prevents you from using wired triggers on the camera for water balloons, etc. You can still use them with a flash, and they're probably more useful there anyway - no shutter lag. And you can still use a wired flash - you just have to get a hotshot adapter that has a PC socket on it… assuming you wanted to do that rather than go with a wireless trigger like the Cactus. I've never used those, but the people who do seem to enjoy them greatly.

I'd go with 2 more robust flashes rather than 3 less robust. You can use reflectors and other modifiers to move the light around as you need. And you can always add a third one later (and it may not need to be as robust), for less than the cost of upgrading all 3.

Oh, and when you use the popup flash on the camera as a trigger, at least on the K5, you can either use it as Master or Commander. In Master it will fire at its normal full power. In Commander, it will still fire, but at a much reduced power. Probably the only time it'll be a problem is if you're trying to silhouette your subject and don't want to light them at all, or if you're shooting at something reflective and don't want a reflection.

[panicAttack]

You should really just go read the strobist site. They even sell prebuilt kits with the things you'd need at various price ranges.

I'd go with 2 more robust flashes rather than 3 less robust. You can use reflectors and other modifiers to move the light around as you need. And you can always add a third one later (and it may not need to be as robust), for less than the cost of upgrading all 3.

Yes, you are probably right,so I'm thinking of buying 2 yongnuo YN-560 II, cactus V5 trigger, and 2 of those sets (both white umbrellas) : link

it's fine to start and play with, so adding more flashes and softbox is for some better times.

last thing is what do you think of some seamless backdrops from ebay or amazon? are there some better (in any way) then others? maybe kit with stand parts.

I will look more careful to strobist site, but I cant find any kits or products there?

Thanks guys for advice and patience!!