[howieb101]

Well I have completed two proper shoots with the Godox Vings now. Once outdoors and once indoors. Anyway, so far they have been flawless and as I've mentioned before the recycle times are great as is not having to charge a receiver of AA batteries. Charging AA batteries has always been a downer for me.

As for the indoor shoot I mixed it with a Nikon SB-25 using an optical slave to trigger it with the Godox Vings. The optical trigger worked fine with the SB-25 but waiting for the AA powered Nikon SB-25 to recharge is painful.

Don't belittle the benefits of the lithium-ion power. It really is a big positive.

Howie B

[mattdm]

That was a worry of mine too, but I've used mine a reasonable amount with quite a bit of moving around, and haven't actually ever knocked it out. He mentions velcro being too fat, but I have some of the low-profile stuff which I plan on trying if it becomes a problem. Or for that matter, tape. Not beautiful, but...

Update: I got a second one, and the connection is definitely looser than the first. (Hooray, budget manufacturing!) The low-profile velcro fits, but because it is still a little too thick, actually makes it worse. So, gaffer tape it is.

[howieb101]

Hi.

I thought I'd contribute a set of photo's using the Godox Ving 850s in a clam shell lighting setup and one Nikon SB-25 with an optical trigger to light the background.


Enjoy.

Howie B

[mikerigel]

Hi.

I thought I'd contribute a set of photo's using the Godox Ving 850s in a clam shell lighting setup and one Nikon SB-25 with an optical trigger to light the background.


Enjoy.

Howie B

Thanks Howie for the photos and sharing your positive experience with the Ving 850. I already have the Godox witstro AD180 strobe which uses the same controller/receiver set so it makes complete sens for me to get one of these Ving 850, especially when i dont need the power from AD180.
Do you know how it compares to a pentax af360 or 540 regarding full 1:1 power?

[bdery]

Do you know how it compares to a pentax af360 or 540 regarding full 1:1 power?

It is almost exactly similar to the 540 regarding power, at most power levels. The V850 erview should be posted soon here on PentaxForums.

[mikerigel]

It is almost exactly similar to the 540 regarding power, at most power levels. The V850 erview should be posted soon here on PentaxForums.

Thank you Bernard, I was kinda hoping it would a bit more powerful but that's ok.. it still looks like a great flash! I'm gonna order me one.

[bdery]

Thank you Bernard, I was kinda hoping it would a bit more powerful but that's ok.. it still looks like a great flash! I'm gonna order me one.

I find it powerful enough. But at that price, and given the fast recycle rates, you could order two and use them together!

[Class A]

Do you know how it compares to a pentax af360 or 540 regarding full 1:1 power?

The difficulty in answering questions like these is to determine under which conditions you compare.

The guide number (GN) specified by a manufacturer is

1. often a bit inflated, and
2. obtained at the highest zoom setting.

High zoom levels focus the light into a smaller area and many manufacturers use addition "hot-spotting" to boost the light intensity in the centre in order to get high guide numbers.

I feel that the most honest comparison is achieved by using a very wide (or at least standard, e.g, 35mm) setting and bouncing the flash into a softbox.or umbrella and then see what power the system generates.

Then you are really seeing the flash tube's power, not how much hot-spotting the engineers achieved at the highest zoom setting.

The V850 erview should be posted soon here on PentaxForums.

Looking forward to reading it!

I think it is pretty obvious that the V850's current trigger system -- in particular for Pentax -- does not hold a candle to the Cactus V6, neither in terms of usability nor in terms of extra features.

The V850 still is a very attractive flash, though, even though its battery power is almost too much for the tube. The V850 will go into overheat protection as quickly as a Cactus RF60 so the extra battery power does not fully translate into high performance. The quick recycling is very nice, but at 1/1 it does not last longer than 20 shots in quick succession. So I personally see the biggest advantage of the Li-Ion battery in the stamina it provides.

[Class A]

But at that price, and given the fast recycle rates, you could order two and use them together!

True, but note that doubling up flashes can be a better strategy than having one flash with a powerful battery like the V850.

Two RF60, for instance, should give you the same recycling times and power as a V850 with increased stamina over one RF60. The two RF60 will be more expensive but as an extra plus you get better thermal performance, i.e., you'll be able to shoot longer at a high frequency without the two RF60 going into overheat protection as quickly as a single V850 would do.

I stand by my statement that the V850 is a very attractive flash and for some, it will be the better choice, compared to an RF60. But I don't share the view taken by some that the V850 makes the RF60 redundant. My RF60 vs V850 comparison explains why.

[bdery]

True, but note that doubling up flashes can be a better strategy than having one flash with a powerful battery like the V850.

Two RF60, for instance, should give you the same recycling times and power as a V850 with increased stamina over one RF60. The two RF60 will be more expensive but as an extra plus you get better thermal performance, i.e., you'll be able to shoot longer at a high frequency without the two RF60 going into overheat protection as quickly as a single V850 would do.

I stand by my statement that the V850 is a very attractive flash and for some, it will be the better choice, compared to an RF60. But I don't share the view taken by some that the V850 makes the RF60 redundant. My RF60 vs V850 comparison explains why.

I meant that someone interested in the V850 but wanting more power could get two V850 and fire them together.

I don't understand precisely what you mean. Of course two flashes used together will be better than one, regardless of the brand. But we were not discussing Cactus' products at this time.

The V850 and RF60 are different flashes. The RF60 has more features, the V850 faster performances and longer battery life. I think your comparison is informative but shows some bias towards one of the flashes...

The difficulty in answering questions like these is to determine under which conditions you compare.

The guide number (GN) specified by a manufacturer is
often a bit inflated, and
obtained at the highest zoom setting.

that why in my upcoming review I set both flashes at 50mm and compared the histograms of a fixed scene. That's the most neutral test I cuold come up with.

I think it is pretty obvious that the V850's current trigger system -- in particular for Pentax -- does not hold a candle to the Cactus V6, neither in terms of usability nor in terms of extra features.

Usability : I disagree. Extra features : I agree. the question is whether someone wants or needs these features. If the answer is yes, then the best choice is obvious. If the answer is no, then the choice is also obvious.

It's good to have choice! I think it's misleading to assume that everyone has the same needs.

its battery power is almost too much for the tube

That's because of the nature of flash tubes, no way around it. Still, the battery itself does not get as warm as a set of AAs, so overheat because of the batteries is less likely to occur. And for your 20 shots figure, if you let the flash erst, once, 30 seconds during your 20 shots, it will never have to engage overheat protection. Plus the number of pops increase ludicrously fast if you lower the power. In a studio situation, I have never been taking more than 20 pictures without stopping once to adjust something.

The main advantage of the V850, which is hard to apperciate until you use it, is that it's ALWAYS ready to fire (almost). If you use it at 1/2 power or lower, then you can litterally shoot without worrying about your flashes being ready. With kids, for instance, it's a godsend.

[mikerigel]

The cactus RF60 is a nice flash with great features but the V850 makes more sens to me since I already invested in the Godox system with the Witstro AD180 which uses the same radio controller.

[Class A]

But we were not discussing Cactus' products at this time.

I agree that off-topic discussions should be avoided in general, but overall I believe when it comes to discussing gear choices it is beneficial to everyone if alternatives are discussed.

The OP initially asked for experiences with the V850 but also specifically added "...or can someone recommend another product?". Later on, howieb101 mentioned that he is considering replacing his Nikon SB24s and Nikon SB25s with V850 and I then commented that he could alternatively consider keeping his Nikon flashes and still remote control their power with a Cactus V6.

I believe this is what a forum is for, to discuss alternatives, not focus on a particular brand.

N.B., I'd very much welcome your participation in "my" Cactus RF60 and Cactus V6 threads.

The V850 and RF60 are different flashes. The RF60 has more features, the V850 faster performances and longer battery life.

I fully agree and that's why I said at least twice in this thread that the V850 is a very attractive flash. It is also why in my RF60 review I wrote "If one is after the fastest recycle times and best stamina in a compact package, the Godox V850 is the best choice. " As you do, I realise that different users have different needs and that there is no one "best" equipment for everyone. We agree, "choice is good!".

I think your comparison is informative but shows some bias towards one of the flashes...

First, I admit that having beta-tested both RF60 and V6, I naturally have an initial closer affinity to them because I was able to experience their pros first hand. I also admit that my reviews try to convey my enthusiasm to others. I think that's what most people do; if they make a good find, they share it with others.

However, I am genuinely interested in learning where you think my descriptions are "biased". It is my aim to fairly describe the pros and cons of each product so that the reader can make up their own mind by contemplating which criteria are more important to them. If I have forgotten a Cactus-"Cons" or a Godox-"Pro", please let me know.

I'm not here to promote Cactus gear. If I point people to my reviews and argue the benefits of the system it is because I believe that it could be a very good choice for them too. But I also point out pros and capabilities of other systems, e.g., as in this thread the ability to accelerate the adjustments on the Godox remote.

that why in my upcoming review I set both flashes at 50mm and compared the histograms of a fixed scene. That's the most neutral test I cuold come up with.

I think that should work well. A more scientific approach would have been to use a uniform surface as a irregular scene could favour one beam pattern over the other. However, I don't think the difference will matter, in particular as most modern flashes in a certain class are really close in their output.

Also, in the past I would have thought the difference between for instance GN 50.5 and GN 60 is significant, but it really boils down to only half a stop more light. I don't think that amount would get anyone out of deep trouble.

Usability : I disagree.

That surprises me. Have you read my Cactus V6 review?

How can you -- on a Godox FT16s transmitter --

• see all power levels at once
• see which group is active at once
• quickly turn off one group to see the overall effect without that group contributing
• very quickly change the power level (the V6 uses a dial instead of buttons and has an "adjustment acclerator" mode)
• quickly establish any potential subgroup combination, without having to re-establish power levels from memory
• change the power level of all groups at the same time by a specific amount in order to raise the overall brightness
• use multiple flashes with different maximum output wihout having to manually calculate what power fraction is the correct one for each
• choose a light level granularity from 1/10, 1/3, or 1/2 stops
• change the group of a receiver by pressing one of four buttons
• change the channel without dealing with DIP switches

?

I haven't used the Godox FT16s transmitter myself, so it may support any of the above V6 virtues in ways that are not known to me; please let me know if this is the case.

Extra features : I agree. the question is whether someone wants or needs these features. If the answer is yes, then the best choice is obvious. If the answer is no, then the choice is also obvious.

I don't see why the answer would be "obvious" in either case.

It is always an overall trade-off analysis, isn't it?
If you want the additional V6 features but the Godox battery stamina without adding a battery pack to your gear then I don't know whether the choice is obvious. BTW, the V6 can control the Godox V860C, so there is a way to combine both worlds, but then the V860C has some disadvantages compared to the V850, so it remains difficult.

That's because of the nature of flash tubes, no way around it.

There is a way around it demonstrated by the Witstro AD180/360.
Much more expensive, but the power of the battery and the performance of the tube is a better fit.

Still, the battery itself does not get as warm as a set of AAs, so overheat because of the batteries is less likely to occur.

No, but to the best of my knowledge overheating of batteries isn't the problem. It is the heat building up in the flash head that makes manufacturers throttle the power after a while in order to avoid melting of the Fresnel lens and to increase the longevity of the tube.

The main advantage of the V850, which is hard to apperciate until you use it, is that it's ALWAYS ready to fire (almost). If you use it at 1/2 power or lower, then you can litterally shoot without worrying about your flashes being ready.

That's the same with the RF60 (and other similar flashes), though. You couldn't rattle off 5fps with them at 1/2, but two shots per second shouldn't be a problem.

Perhaps let me close by explaining why I may have appeared to be a bit too eagerly to point to the RF60 as V850 alternatives: Some people (not you) seem to believe that a Li-Ion powered flash does not leave any room for any other flash powered with conventional AA anymore.I want to counteract that attitude by pointing out that there are criteria other than battery handling and stamina and recycling rates. But surely, if battery power galore in a small package is what you want, I don't think there is a better choice than the Godox at the moment.

[Class A]

I don't understand precisely what you mean. Of course two flashes used together will be better than one, regardless of the brand.

What I meant to express is that if anyone is entertaining the thought of using two flashes together, they could consider the benefits of doing this with AA-powered units, as this then not only has the benefit of being able to double the power, but also reduce recycling rates, battery longevity, and sustainability of quick succession shoots.

The Godox V850 is so strong in the battery longevity and recycling department already that doubling it up does not really add anything with these.

It seems like I'm holding advantages of the V850 against it, but that's not what I meaning to do. It just seems like the already existing imbalance between Godox battery power and tube performance is further increased by doubling flashes (which wouldn't be a problem at all if there weren't trade offs in the form of a proprietary battery + charger solution).

It is not a particularly important consideration and I would not have repeated it, if you hadn't asked for clarification.

[howieb101]

Besides the faster recycling the other big benefit is not having to charge heaps of AA batteries.

If you have four flashes thats 16 batteries to recharge. A four light setup isnt thar uncommon either.

Personally some of the trigger advantages of the Cactus v6 while useful aren't critical.

For me setting the trigger power is easy enough on the Godox Vings and using four groups, say, A, B, C and D isn't that hard.

Put it thus way, I am going to dump my remaining Nikon SB's and get more Godox Vings.

I value the fast recycling, and easier battery recharging more than some of the advantages of the Cactus V6 trigger.

[bdery]

How can you -- on a Godox FT16s transmitter --
see all power levels at once
see which group is active at once
quickly turn off one group to see the overall effect without that group contributing
very quickly change the power level (the V6 uses a dial instead of buttons and has an "adjustment acclerator" mode)
quickly establish any potential subgroup combination, without having to re-establish power levels from memory
change the power level of all groups at the same time by a specific amount in order to raise the overall brightness
use multiple flashes with different maximum output wihout having to manually calculate what power fraction is the correct one for each
choose a light level granularity from 1/10, 1/3, or 1/2 stops
change the group of a receiver by pressing one of four buttons
change the channel without dealing with DIP switches

You can do some of these things with the RF-16s but those are features. By usability I meant whether the features that ARE present are easy to use and operate.

There is a way around it demonstrated by the Witstro AD180/360.
Much more expensive, but the power of the battery and the performance of the tube is a better fit.

It's not the same tube. And that tube is not as enclosed as that of a speedligt.

No, but to the best of my knowledge overheating of batteries isn't the problem. It is the heat building up in the flash head that makes manufacturers throttle the power after a while in order to avoid melting of the Fresnel lens and to increase the longevity of the tube.

The batteries contribute to the total heat of the unit.

That's the same with the RF60 (and other similar flashes), though. You couldn't rattle off 5fps with them at 1/2, but two shots per second shouldn't be a problem.

Having used several Sigma, Pentax, vivitar, Nikon, Canon and now Godox flashes, I can confirm that the li-ion of the Godox has the fastest burst rate I've ever used. The review (which has been erady for a while, apparently Adam wants to publish the final v6 review and the Godox review together) has a table showing the maximum burst rate (with a K-3) that you can reach at various power settings.

What I meant to express is that if anyone is entertaining the thought of using two flashes together, they could consider the benefits of doing this with AA-powered units, as this then not only has the benefit of being able to double the power, but also reduce recycling rates, battery longevity, and sustainability of quick succession shoots.

That would apply also to the Godox, it's not unique to AAs.

However, I am genuinely interested in learning where you think my descriptions are "biased". It is my aim to fairly describe the pros and cons of each product so that the reader can make up their own mind by contemplating which criteria are more important to them. If I have forgotten a Cactus-"Cons" or a Godox-"Pro", please let me know.

I hope you didn't take that comment badly. There were a few things that made me smile, for instance the price figures you mention which are on the high side (I got my flashes for 100$ and my triggers for 20$). You also mention the proprietary charger as a downside, you say that getting an extra battery is 40$ but without stressing that getting 12 AA batteries is probably more expensive than that. Lastly the comparison table seems to focus more on the features of the RF60, comparing them to the other flashes. Building a similar table but focusing on the features of another flash (while disregarding some perks of the Cactus) would paint a different picture.

Those are small things, and I want to stress first that your review was extremely well made and informative, and second that nothing you wrote is innacurate. I do think your opinion favours the Cactus, and your comments inevitably follow, but I'm nickpicking, really.