[Class A]

You can do some of these things with the RF-16s but those are features. By usability I meant whether the features that ARE present are easy to use and operate.

I understand your definition of usability and it is defensible but I think it is more useful to consider the purpose (e.g., remote power control) and then evaluate how well the purpose is served.

If you only consider features that are actually present then it may seem that one device only has more features and that these features are not critical, but I would argue that the presence of certain features is crucial in terms of supporting a certain purpose.

I hope you didn't take that comment badly.

I didn't but there are two reasons why I take statements of this kind seriously:

1. I don't want to come across as a Cactus fanboy who blindly recommends Cactus products despite the presence of better alternatives. I am not affiliated to Cactus in any way and are not paid for beta-testing nor reviewing. My enthusiasm is purely borne out of appreciation for what they are doing for the budget-limited photographer. I am a bit frustrated when that enthusiasm is misinterpreted as "promotion" or "ignoring better alternatives".
2. I would like my reviews to be informative and unbiased. I hope that readers will be able to draw their own conclusions from them and thus try to not skew the presentation of features, advantages, etc. I realise that I allow my own ranking of priorities (e.g., the assessment of how important P-TTL is for off-camera flash photography) to influence the trade-off analysis, but I strive to apply the same subjective perspective to all alternatives equally.

There were a few things that made me smile, for instance the price figures you mention which are on the high side (I got my flashes for 100$ and my triggers for 20$).

I got the prices I quoted from Amazon. I believe that is a reasonable source for comparable prices. I don't think that low prices, e.g., from obscure sellers on ebay that are only temporarily available and that do not include any kind of reasonable warranty should be used in comparisons.

If your $100 and $20 figures come from reputable stores, please let me know what these are, and I will adjust the review accordingly.

You also mention the proprietary charger as a downside, you say that getting an extra battery is 40$ but without stressing that getting 12 AA batteries is probably more expensive than that.

True, but not everyone will need the power of 12 AA batteries.

Whereas the proprietary battery system implies another $40 if you want a backup or a replacement, an AA-battery scheme allows one to get away with just 4 more AA, if one does not need the extra power.

Of course, if you want the extra power than both in terms of handling (bulk and replacement/charging of batteries) and price, the 12 AA solution is worse.

Lastly the comparison table seems to focus more on the features of the RF60, comparing them to the other flashes. Building a similar table but focusing on the features of another flash (while disregarding some perks of the Cactus) would paint a different picture.

Disregarding the perks of any flash (Cactus or not) would be wrong, AFAIC.

I used a similar table I found elsewhere as a basis and tried to make sure that each flash models' special features are captured. I don't think I favour the RF60 by selecting a subset of rows (features) only.

The row "recycle time" clearly shows one of the main advantages of the V850.

After thinking about your comment, I realised that I could add "battery life" as another row. But is there any other row (feature) that I missed?

Again, I don't think it would make any sense to delete one of the existing rows. This would clearly result in a less informative table.

Those are small things, and I want to stress first that your review was extremely well made and informative, and second that nothing you wrote is innacurate.

Thanks a lot. I very much appreciate your positive comments.

I do think your opinion favours the Cactus, and your comments inevitably follow, but I'm nickpicking, really.

Well, as I said it is not always easy to remain completely impartial after having tested one product extensively and having had the benefit of experiencing the benefits first hands. If I have had the chance of experiencing the fast recycling of the Godox first hand, I might have given that criterion more weight in the discussion. I doubt it, though. For my photography (portraits, well-considered shots of events), extremely fast recycling is not important and I do believe that if fast recycling is indeed important that it is then better (in terms of sustainability of high burst rates) to achieve it through doubling up flashes.

I'm looking forward to reading your review soon, hopefully.

[bdery]

I don't want to come across as a Cactus fanboy who blindly recommends Cactus products despite the presence of better alternatives.

You don't, to my eyes you come across as a very enthusiastic user. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but as you say below you have more experience with Cactus than with other systems (I happen to know Godox and Yongnuo, but the same would appply to any other system).

I got the prices I quoted from Amazon.

I purchased my gear from Amazon too (the Neewer version, though).

Again, I don't think it would make any sense to delete one of the existing rows. This would clearly result in a less informative table.

I never suggested deleting rows! I meant that building a table around the features of one system, you can disregard some features of OTHER systems and thus skew the interpretation. As you say battery life is one example.

it is not always easy to remain completely impartial after having tested one product extensively and having had the benefit of experiencing the benefits first hands.

I fully agree.

If I have had the chance of experiencing the fast recycling of the Godox first hand, I might have given that criterion more weight in the discussion. I doubt it, though. For my photography (portraits, well-considered shots of events), extremely fast recycling is not important

That's where each photographer's experience will change his viewpoint. For fast-paced events, for kids, or for people not used to being models, fast bursts are very helpful. The fact that the recycle rate remains constant even when the battery depletes is another bonus. When shooting with my Pentax 540 and 500, when the batteries were about half depleted, many seconds would pass before I was able to shoot another picture. The solution (changing the batteries) meant delaying the process and, again, with unexperienced models this makes them loose focus.

I'm looking forward to reading your review soon, hopefully.

It's been in Adam's hands for a while, he'll release it in good time.

[TRex1123]

In realty... and this is something that I have been thinking about because I like the battery on the Godox unit..

2 - V6's - $110 dollars
1 - Godox tt850 - $104
Roughly $214

OR
1 RF60 $139
1 v6 $56
Roughly $199...
To add the extra battery, its another $30-$40...

Soooo Maybe the Godox unit mixed with the Cactus v6's is the way to go..... Hmmmmmmm!

[bdery]

In realty... and this is something that I have been thinking about because I like the battery on the Godox unit..

2 - V6's - $110 dollars
1 - Godox tt850 - $104
Roughly $214

OR
1 RF60 $139
1 v6 $56
Roughly $199...
To add the extra battery, its another $30-$40...

Soooo Maybe the Godox unit mixed with the Cactus v6's is the way to go..... Hmmmmmmm!

I don't know if the V6 can control the functions of the Godox V850. If not, then there is little purpose in mixing them. the Cactus system's main interest is in the wealth of controls it offers with supported flashes.

You could say that option 3 is

1 RF16s 35$
1 V850 104$
Roughly 140$

The price difference shrinks when you add more flashes, the Cactus system remaining slightly more expensive but not much. An extra V850 and RF-16S receiver costs about 125$, a RF60 (with included receiver) 140$.

If Cactus does add control for the V850 (not sure that's even possible through the hotshoe) then your idea makes a lot of sense.

[TRex1123]

Ohhh!! I thought I read that it could control that flash already. Well that scrubs that whole thing then!

I just really like the v6 trigger. Its the main selling point for me going with the Cactus system.

[bdery]

Ohhh!! I thought I read that it could control that flash already. Well that scrubs that whole thing then!

Trigger, definitely. Control, I doubt it, Cactus doesn't list it as compatible, and since it's not a TTL flash (it just has the fire pin) controls have to be done via the RF-16S trigger.

You could get the Canon TTL version (V860) but it costs 200$. An expensive workaround... And I'm still not sure the V6 controls it.

[Class A]

I purchased my gear from Amazon too (the Neewer version, though).

Ah, the Neewer version is cheaper and I had mentioned that in my review from day one.

Since the original manufacturer is Godox and I did not know whether the distribution of the Neewer TT850 is restricted to some area (e.g., US only) and/or what other differences there may be, I compared the RF60 to the Godox V850, not the Neewer TT850.

I meant that building a table around the features of one system, you can disregard some features of OTHER systems and thus skew the interpretation.

Yes, but I believe I avoided falling into this trap.

As you say battery life is one example.

I now remember that the reason why I did not include that as a dedicated row in the table was that I did not have reliable figures for all models.

As you know, manufacturers like Yongnuo, for instance, tend to be overly generous with flash power performance, for instance, so I did not want to trust the manufacturer supplied figures.

For the recycle times of the competitor products, I found reviews that reported on real recycle times, but battery life time is not something that many reviewers measure quantitatively. Hence, I only discussed this in the text, informally.

That's where each photographer's experience will change his viewpoint.

Yes, definitely.

If we were test labs, that wouldn't be satisfactory, but we aren't so it isn't a huge issue. I'd be the first to admit that my "report" is not a "review" in the strict, technical meaning of the word. But that's OK, AFAIC, since I'm not writing for a professional review site.

[Class A]

Ohhh!! I thought I read that it could control that flash already. Well that scrubs that whole thing then!

The Godox V850 (and Neewer TT850) can only be triggered by the V6, but not remotely power controlled. They do not offer the hot-shoe interface to allow for this.

The Godox V860C, on the other hand, is already supported by the V6 through a predefined profile. It is very similar to the V850, there are some differences, though.

[Class A]

You could get the Canon TTL version (V860) but it costs 200$. An expensive workaround... And I'm still not sure the V6 controls it.

Sorry, I should have looked at your message before replying to TRex1123.

The V860C is supported; when in doubt, you can consult the list of predefined flash profiles.

And of course any analogue (film-style) TTL flash model has a very good chance of being supported through a user-created flash profile.

[Class A]

@bdery: Congrats on the publication on your very well-written Godox V850 review!

There are two mistakes and a few contentious points.

[Class A]

Some concerning news about battery issues with the Godox V850.

A number of users at the new TruthHavoc forum are reporting dead batteries, e.g.,

"I own two v850 s and since I have purchased them I have managed to convince 4 of my photographer friends to do like wise. A few months later and all of us are having problems with the batteries , so much we would have been better of with standard AAA batteries. "

As nice as the Li-Ion batteries are when they work, if they don't it means that one basically cannot use one's flash anymore, unless one has a working backup battery.

I hope Godox will be able to fix their battery issues soon.

[mattdm]

Hmmm. My three batteries seem to still be going fine, although next time I charge I'll be more careful about keeping count to see if it's lasting as long as expected.

In any case, glad I bought from Cheetah Light — I know I can trust Edward to make things good if there's a problem. I mentioned earlier in this thread that my second flash has a kind of loose fit for the remote, and until I gaffer-taped it, it tended to pop off when bumped. I told Edward about this and he insisted I send it back in for replacement. (I didn't — the tape solution works for me. But it's nice to know that there was the option.)

[Class A]

My three batteries seem to still be going fine, although next time I charge I'll be more careful about keeping count to see if it's lasting as long as expected.

Seems like there are good batteries that will last but also a batch of bad ones with reduced capacity and a propensity to fully fail.

I'd be surprised if Godox wouldn't be able to get things under control eventually, but meanwhile it seems like a good idea to buy from sources (like Cheetah) that will cooperate in case things go wrong.

[dinamojuan]

Im waiting for may new Neewer tt850 with trigger FT16 and the Godox cells II for HSS shooting, I´m gonna tell you how they works from first hands very soon.

[bdery]

Im waiting for may new Neewer tt850 with trigger FT16 and the Godox cells II for HSS shooting, I´m gonna tell you how they works from first hands very soon.

You have a Canon camera? You won't be able to do HSS otherwise. that being said, the Cells II are also useful to trigger other brands flashes, if optical slave doesn't work for some reason.