Cactus RF60 Flash Review

mattdm · 03-03-2014, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied

At the time, I was pretty insistent on P-TTL capability when using flash on-camera, but the known bounce-flash misbehavior of the 540 on my K5ii has led me to believe that "A" (auto-thyristor) mode is more consistent- and for that type of use (on-camera in "A" mode), I must admit the Metz 52 is the superior flash.

Slight correction here: the Metz 52 AF-1 has no "A" mode. You need to go up to the flagship 58 AF-2 for that.

Class A · 03-03-2014, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied

Great review Class A!

Thanks!

Originally posted by NeverSatisfied

That being said, if using a Cactus on-camera, does it have a function similar to "A"/auto thyristor mode, or are these strictly manual-only?

Strictly manual only.

Some flash exposure compensation (like P-TTL or an "A" mode) can be convenient and can get you an action shot that you'd otherwise miss, but ultimately it is risky to rely on flash exposure automation because it can go quite wrong (e.g., if something that changes the metering moves into the scene) and even if exposures stay within acceptable limits you'll never have the consistency of the manual approach.

When you are considering multiple flashes then "A" modes become very tricky (as there will be interaction between the flashes) and sadly P-TTL has next to no support to control lighting ratios for multiple flashes.

Class A · 03-03-2014, 07:56 PM

Brian Hursey has created a video demonstrating the V6 controlling the power of an RF60 and a YN568EX.

You Tube

Note how he first changes the levels individually (by keeping the respective group button pressed while turning the dial) and then changes the levels in tandem (by just turning the dial).

You cannot see it in the video due to the (over) exposure, but the V6 also displays the individual levels.

NeverSatisfied · 03-03-2014, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

Slight correction here: the Metz 52 AF-1 has no "A" mode. You need to go up to the flagship 58 AF-2 for that.

My mistake! It was the Metz 58 that I had been using, not the 52. The "smart" A mode that it had, worked as well as, or better than, the Pentax 540's P-TTL mode, on-camera.

jake14mw · 03-04-2014, 09:55 AM

Interesting that they chose to support Yongnuo for remote power control. Any idea how far back they might go as far as older model flashes to support? Any chance they would support power control for a Nikon SB-28?

Class A · 03-04-2014, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by jake14mw

Any chance they would support power control for a Nikon SB-28?

The Nikon SB-28 is supported, as is the SB-24 and further Nikon models.

The decisions about supporting older flashes have not been finalised yet, but it is already clear that a very useful number of popular flashes from Canon, Nikon, and Pentax (including legacy models) will be supported.

howieb101 · 03-04-2014, 04:14 PM

Do you know if they will support Nikon SB-25 and SB-26? I have quite a few SB-25s but I am sure owners of SB-26's would also like to know.

Howie B

Class A · 03-04-2014, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by howieb101

Do you know if they will support Nikon SB-25 and SB-26?

Both flash models have the prerequisites (they support TTL) but at this point I cannot confirm direct support.

EDIT: They are both supported.

jm_mac · 03-08-2014, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Class A

The Nikon SB-28 is supported, as is the SB-24 and further Nikon models.

The decisions about supporting older flashes have not been finalised yet, but it is already clear that a very useful number of popular flashes from Canon, Nikon, and Pentax (including legacy models) will be supported.

I'm now very confused about how the V6 works (I guess since I'm very new to these radio triggers). Doesn't the V6 use RF to communicate with the flashes? If so, how can it support power control of any of these older models?

Class A · 03-08-2014, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by jm_mac

Doesn't the V6 use RF to communicate with the flashes? If so, how can it support power control of any of these older models?

V6 units communicate with each other via RF. The don't directly communicate with a flash via RF (with the exception of the RF60 which has a built-in V6 receiver).

If you want to remote control the power of an older flash, you have to put it on to the hot-shoe of a V6 in receiver mode. This V6 receiver will then receive power and trigger instructions from another V6 in transmitter mode.

The V6 in receiver mode uses either the digital protocol of the flash (P-TTL in the case of Pentax) or the analogue TTL protocol that uses a so-called quench signal to control the flash duration and hence the flash power. Which protocol is used depends on the capabilities of the flash and what kind of V6 profile is available for it.

I hope that clarifies it.

P.S.: I will publish a V6 review in the near future. It will hopefully answer all typical questions.

jm_mac · 03-08-2014, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Class A

V6 units communicate with each other via RF. The don't directly communicate with a flash via RF (with the exception of the RF60 which has a built-in V6 receiver).

If you want to remote control the power of an older flash, you have to put it on to the hot-shoe of a V6 in receiver mode. This V6 receiver will then receive power and trigger instructions from another V6 in transmitter mode.

The V6 in receiver mode uses either the digital protocol of the flash (P-TTL in the case of Pentax) or the analogue TTL protocol that uses a so-called quench signal to control the flash duration and hence the flash power. Which protocol is used depends on the capabilities of the flash and what kind of V6 profile is available for it.

I hope that clarifies it.

P.S.: I will publish a V6 review in the near future. It will hopefully answer all typical questions.

Thanks for the detailed reply, this clarifies communication with older strobes. I have a couple of Yongnuo YN560-II strobes (without the wireless receiver) - since these are fully manual, it seems that it's impossible for their power to be remotely controlled (no TTL), correct?

thanks,

jm_mac

Class A · 03-08-2014, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by jm_mac

I have a couple of Yongnuo YN560-II strobes (without the wireless receiver) - since these are fully manual, it seems that it's impossible for their power to be remotely controlled (no TTL), correct?

Correct.

If the flash is fully manual only, the V6 has no chance of controlling its power level.
It can only trigger it.

s.wilding · 03-10-2014, 07:21 PM

So if I got this right, as long as I throw a TTL compatible flash on a V6 as a receiver, and trigger from a master V6, the TTL should work per flash unit? Even across multiple brands?

Class A · 03-10-2014, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by s.wilding

So if I got this right, as long as I throw a TTL compatible flash on a V6 as a receiver, and trigger from a master V6, the TTL should work per flash unit? Even across multiple brands?

For now, I cannot say more than
a) a V6 receiver currently supports ~20 flash models (selectable via model name),
b) across multiple brands,
c) many of these are old analogue TTL (film-style) flash models,
d) V6 development has not finished yet.

Class A · 03-12-2014, 02:03 AM

The price for the RF60 will be US $139.95.

03-04-2014, 04:31 PM	#23
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by howieb101 Do you know if they will support Nikon SB-25 and SB-26? Both flash models have the prerequisites (they support TTL) but at this point I cannot confirm direct support. EDIT: They are both supported. Last edited by Class A; 05-02-2014 at 06:00 PM.

03-12-2014, 02:03 AM	#30
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Price information has been released The price for the RF60 will be US $139.95.

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03-03-2014, 11:07 AM	#16
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by NeverSatisfied At the time, I was pretty insistent on P-TTL capability when using flash on-camera, but the known bounce-flash misbehavior of the 540 on my K5ii has led me to believe that "A" (auto-thyristor) mode is more consistent- and for that type of use (on-camera in "A" mode), I must admit the Metz 52 is the superior flash. Slight correction here: the Metz 52 AF-1 has no "A" mode. You need to go up to the flagship 58 AF-2 for that.

03-03-2014, 06:43 PM	#17
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by NeverSatisfied Great review Class A! Thanks! Originally posted by NeverSatisfied That being said, if using a Cactus on-camera, does it have a function similar to "A"/auto thyristor mode, or are these strictly manual-only? Strictly manual only. Some flash exposure compensation (like P-TTL or an "A" mode) can be convenient and can get you an action shot that you'd otherwise miss, but ultimately it is risky to rely on flash exposure automation because it can go quite wrong (e.g., if something that changes the metering moves into the scene) and even if exposures stay within acceptable limits you'll never have the consistency of the manual approach. When you are considering multiple flashes then "A" modes become very tricky (as there will be interaction between the flashes) and sadly P-TTL has next to no support to control lighting ratios for multiple flashes.

03-03-2014, 10:18 PM	#19
NeverSatisfied Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 688	Originally posted by mattdm Slight correction here: the Metz 52 AF-1 has no "A" mode. You need to go up to the flagship 58 AF-2 for that. My mistake! It was the Metz 58 that I had been using, not the 52. The "smart" A mode that it had, worked as well as, or better than, the Pentax 540's P-TTL mode, on-camera.

03-04-2014, 09:55 AM	#20
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977	Interesting that they chose to support Yongnuo for remote power control. Any idea how far back they might go as far as older model flashes to support? Any chance they would support power control for a Nikon SB-28?

03-04-2014, 11:00 AM	#21
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by jake14mw Any chance they would support power control for a Nikon SB-28? The Nikon SB-28 is supported, as is the SB-24 and further Nikon models. The decisions about supporting older flashes have not been finalised yet, but it is already clear that a very useful number of popular flashes from Canon, Nikon, and Pentax (including legacy models) will be supported.

03-04-2014, 04:14 PM	#22
howieb101 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 594	Do you know if they will support Nikon SB-25 and SB-26? I have quite a few SB-25s but I am sure owners of SB-26's would also like to know. Howie B

03-08-2014, 08:27 AM	#24
jm_mac New Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 18	Originally posted by Class A The Nikon SB-28 is supported, as is the SB-24 and further Nikon models. The decisions about supporting older flashes have not been finalised yet, but it is already clear that a very useful number of popular flashes from Canon, Nikon, and Pentax (including legacy models) will be supported. I'm now very confused about how the V6 works (I guess since I'm very new to these radio triggers). Doesn't the V6 use RF to communicate with the flashes? If so, how can it support power control of any of these older models?

03-08-2014, 12:02 PM	#25
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by jm_mac Doesn't the V6 use RF to communicate with the flashes? If so, how can it support power control of any of these older models? V6 units communicate with each other via RF. The don't directly communicate with a flash via RF (with the exception of the RF60 which has a built-in V6 receiver). If you want to remote control the power of an older flash, you have to put it on to the hot-shoe of a V6 in receiver mode. This V6 receiver will then receive power and trigger instructions from another V6 in transmitter mode. The V6 in receiver mode uses either the digital protocol of the flash (P-TTL in the case of Pentax) or the analogue TTL protocol that uses a so-called quench signal to control the flash duration and hence the flash power. Which protocol is used depends on the capabilities of the flash and what kind of V6 profile is available for it. I hope that clarifies it. P.S.: I will publish a V6 review in the near future. It will hopefully answer all typical questions.

03-08-2014, 04:39 PM	#26
jm_mac New Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 18	Originally posted by Class A V6 units communicate with each other via RF. The don't directly communicate with a flash via RF (with the exception of the RF60 which has a built-in V6 receiver). If you want to remote control the power of an older flash, you have to put it on to the hot-shoe of a V6 in receiver mode. This V6 receiver will then receive power and trigger instructions from another V6 in transmitter mode. The V6 in receiver mode uses either the digital protocol of the flash (P-TTL in the case of Pentax) or the analogue TTL protocol that uses a so-called quench signal to control the flash duration and hence the flash power. Which protocol is used depends on the capabilities of the flash and what kind of V6 profile is available for it. I hope that clarifies it. P.S.: I will publish a V6 review in the near future. It will hopefully answer all typical questions. Thanks for the detailed reply, this clarifies communication with older strobes. I have a couple of Yongnuo YN560-II strobes (without the wireless receiver) - since these are fully manual, it seems that it's impossible for their power to be remotely controlled (no TTL), correct? thanks, jm_mac

03-08-2014, 06:13 PM	#27
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by jm_mac I have a couple of Yongnuo YN560-II strobes (without the wireless receiver) - since these are fully manual, it seems that it's impossible for their power to be remotely controlled (no TTL), correct? Correct. If the flash is fully manual only, the V6 has no chance of controlling its power level. It can only trigger it.

03-10-2014, 07:21 PM	#28
s.wilding New Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 11	So if I got this right, as long as I throw a TTL compatible flash on a V6 as a receiver, and trigger from a master V6, the TTL should work per flash unit? Even across multiple brands?

03-10-2014, 08:07 PM	#29
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by s.wilding So if I got this right, as long as I throw a TTL compatible flash on a V6 as a receiver, and trigger from a master V6, the TTL should work per flash unit? Even across multiple brands? For now, I cannot say more than a) a V6 receiver currently supports ~20 flash models (selectable via model name), b) across multiple brands, c) many of these are old analogue TTL (film-style) flash models, d) V6 development has not finished yet.