[Class A]

Along the same subject, when in this mode (on-camera manual mode, but not in pass-through mode), are all the pins at the bottom of the V6, besides the main trigger pin, ignored (electrically muted)?

Yes, the hot-shoe contacts on the V6 are electrically isolated from the contacts on the camera's hot-shoe.

This means you can mount even old, high trigger-voltage flashes without harming your camera, in other words, the V6 fully acts like a Wein Safe-Sync.

That's true even in TTL pass-through mode (the signals are repeated, as opposed to exposed through direct electrical contact).

[Tanzer]

Thanks again! I got the V6 bundled with the RF60 , and they are a fantastic combination, but that is just one way to use the V6 -- this thing is like a gift that keeps on giving.

For those who are looking to use the V6 as a safe sync, I should briefly mention that the V6 does need to have batteries installed and has to be switched on, even when just operating as a safe-sync. (I tried it.)

The Wein Safe-Sync doesn't use batteries, it acts as a passive device. However, the Wein presents a constant 1.0 V trigger voltage regardless of the flash unit. Meaning that the Wein does draw power from the high-voltage pin of the flash, in order to power its internal electronics. In other words, even though it doesn't use internal batteries, you don't get something for nothing with the Wein.

A more serious limitation with the Wein is that there is no locking screw or lever on the bottom (male) hotshoe whatsoever, making on-camera use, with a flash on top, quite precarious! It is fine for use with a corded connection (either hotshoe or PC cable) to a flash on a flash bracket. This is a very narrow use case, and if this is what you want to do, you could just as well use a V6 in wireless transmitter mode and ditch the cord altogether. All things considered, I think the V6 as a safe-sync far outweighs the Wein Safe-Sync. This is just a commentary on the safe-sync capabilities, and says nothing of the V6's wireless capabilities which Class A and others have already documented so well on this thread.

[sterretje]

The Wein Safe-Sync doesn't use batteries, it acts as a passive device. However, the Wein presents a constant 1.0 V trigger voltage regardless of the flash unit. Meaning that the Wein does draw power from the high-voltage pin of the flash, in order to power its internal electronics. In other words, even though it doesn't use internal batteries, you don't get something for nothing with the Wein.

The Wein is probably a simple resistor and zener-diode as in this picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zener_diode_voltage_regulator.svg Not much of electronics but yes, there will be a current flowing.

[Tanzer]

Thanks for your comment. Actually I don't think the zener diagram will work correctly because the in-series resistor has to be large, to limit current through the zener diode (since 200 V minus 1 V is still 199 V across the resistor). And then if you short the output contacts, you probably aren't going to draw enough current from the flash due to the large resistor.

Your comment made me look back through my old bookmarks and I found these two approaches to building your own safe-sync, probably from a previous PF thread. They both use a triac.
Notes on the Troubleshooting and Repair of Electronic Flash Units and Strobe Lights and Design Guidelines, Useful Circuits, and Schematics
DIY Vivitar trigger voltage modification -- Flash and Studio Lighting in photography-on-the.net forums

Maybe this info will help people to decide if they want to buy a V6 to use as a safe-sync (along with all the remote trigger benefits), rather than try to build one.

[sterretje]

Thanks Tanzer,

I see that I've over simplified it

[photokaybrown]

I tried the 'workaround' since I now have two V6s and an RF60. It didn't work. I'm growing increasingly frustrated learning how to set up what I have, but don't have the money to buy an HSS capable flash like Metz 58 or Pentax 540.

Here's what I have:

1 V6 in transmitter mode to act as a trigger for both camera and flash. (I put the V6 on the camera hotshoe because I was 'guessing' this is where it went). It was set to Group B, Channel 2 with a 91 ms delay.

1 V6 in receiver mode as a remote trigger to trigger the camera. (I used this if off camera mode) It was set to Group B, Channel 2 with a 91 ms delay.

1 camera triggering cable. (It's one of those 'Pixel 252 timer remote control cables) in single mode.

An RF60 set to Group B, Channel 2, Manual mode, 91 ms delay at 1/1 power.

I pressed the shutter, no flash went off. I then switched the V6 unit settings from transmitter mode (the V6 on the hot shoe of camera) to receiver mode, and switched the other V6 (off camera) to transmitter mode. Still nothing. I tried to put the RF60 in Master mode, then Slave 1 mode, then HSS mode, still nothing.

This is really frustrating. Sorry if I'm not as technical as many of you, but seriously, I need step by step instructions on what to do with each V6 and RF60.

On the upside, I was able to get the V6s to work with old camera flashes like my Sunpak 544. It's just that I have no idea how to do Class A's workaround for non-dedicated equipment.

---------- Post added 12-29-15 at 04:47 PM ----------

I don't think I ever posted this idea of how to use the V6 and a shutter release cable to achieve HyperSync / HSS with a Pentax DSLR without using any P-TTL equipment, here:

One needs

[A]: 1 x V6 (or V5) (in transmitter mode) to act as a trigger for both camera & flash(es)
[B]: 1 x V6 (or V5) (in receiver mode) as a remote trigger to trigger the camera
[C]: 1 x camera triggering cable
[D]: N x V6 (in receiver mode) (or RF60) for off-camera flash(es)

The simple "trick" is to set a delay on all V6 attached to flashes (or on all RF60) [D] that corresponds to the shutter lag of the camera.

Once that is done, one can fire both camera (through [B]&[C]) and remote flash(es) [D] at the same time with the remote camera trigger [A]. If the delay value is chosen correctly, the triggering of the flash(es) [D] will coincide with the exposure of the frame.

On my Pentax K-5 II and an FA 43/1.9 at f/8 and 1/500s shutter speed, I can consistently illuminate the whole frame when I set an off-camera RF60 to a delay of 91ms.

This technique will work with any flash when using 1/1 "full power", i.e., using the "HyperSync" technique, as a full power pulse is long enough to illuminate all of the frame.

With an RF60 set to "HSS" mode, however, even flash powers less than "1/1" are possible, and the frame illumination will be even (rather than graduated as is unavoidable with the above "HyperSync" technique).

I tried this, and it didn't work for me. I now have 2 V6s (one on the camera hot shoe and the other off camera) and an RF60 (with no V6 attached), and tried to follow these instructions, but didn't know if the transceiver V6 went on top of my camera or was off camera, so I switched back and forth, and even set my RF60 with the same settings as the two V6S. Still no flash. I played around with the V6 and RF60 settings to get them to communicate, but still no flash. Nothing is working. This is really frustrating. I've read your V6 and RF60 reviews as well and still don't know what I'm doing wrong.

HELP!!! Is there a way you could have very detailed instructions? Some of us are not as technical and need to have a bit of hand holding here.



Kay

[maxfield_photo]

I remember being slightly confused by *something* the first time I read Class A's work around instructions (can't remember what that something was), but now that I re-read it, it seems to be gone. Maybe there's hope for me yet.

Kay, I think unit [A], the transmitter, needs to be hand held. Unit [B], the receiver, needs to be mounted on the hotshoe, and connected to the remote shutter release port on the camera via cable [C]. [B] should be set to 0 delay, you want to give the camera a head start in this race. Unit [D], also a receiver, is the only one that needs to have a delay set. You press the test button on Unit [A], and it fires Unit [B] which triggers the camera, at the same time Unit [A] also starts the timer counting down on Unit [D] so that the pulse(s) sync up with the shutter's movement.

The figure of 91ms may vary from camera to camera, and may even vary as the shutter speed changes on any given camera. So if you see a flash but your image shows up dark, try adjusting up or down by a few milliseconds.

[photokaybrown]

I remember being slightly confused by *something* the first time I read Class A's work around instructions (can't remember what that something was), but now that I re-read it, it seems to be gone. Maybe there's hope for me yet.

Kay, I think unit [A], the transmitter, needs to be hand held. Unit [B], the receiver, needs to be mounted on the hotshoe, and connected to the remote shutter release port on the camera via cable [C]. [B] should be set to 0 delay, you want to give the camera a head start in this race. Unit [D], also a receiver, is the only one that needs to have a delay set. You press the test button on Unit [A], and it fires Unit [B] which triggers the camera, at the same time Unit [A] also starts the timer counting down on Unit [D] so that the pulse(s) sync up with the shutter's movement.

The figure of 91ms may vary from camera to camera, and may even vary as the shutter speed changes on any given camera. So if you see a flash but your image shows up dark, try adjusting up or down by a few milliseconds.

Thank you for trying to help, but that method didn't work, either. A and B are no communicating, and nothing is communicating with the RF60. I have a shutter release cable that's in the proper port in the camera, but it doesn't connect to the V6. I've just been using it as a regular shutter release. At least that works with my camera. I'm trying to find out other information that other people have come up with such as settings and exact steps and what equipment was used. All I can come up with is that others have used the HSS capable flash like Pentax and Metz. That's far beyond my budget right now, though.

---------- Post added 12-29-15 at 06:36 PM ----------

I was able to get A and B (the two V6s) to communicate by showing the green light when I press on A (the handheld transmitter), and the green light shows on A and B. It does nothing with the flash, so there is no communication with the flash, no matter what I do. And the shutter release works with my camera, but I don't know what that has to do with flash.

---------- Post added 12-29-15 at 06:50 PM ----------

Thank you for trying to help, but that method didn't work, either. A and B are no communicating, and nothing is communicating with the RF60. I have a shutter release cable that's in the proper port in the camera, but it doesn't connect to the V6. I've just been using it as a regular shutter release. At least that works with my camera. I'm trying to find out other information that other people have come up with such as settings and exact steps and what equipment was used. All I can come up with is that others have used the HSS capable flash like Pentax and Metz. That's far beyond my budget right now, though.

---------- Post added 12-29-15 at 06:36 PM ----------

I was able to get A and B (the two V6s) to communicate by showing the green light when I press on A (the handheld transmitter), and the green light shows on A and B. It does nothing with the flash, so there is no communication with the flash, no matter what I do. And the shutter release works with my camera, but I don't know what that has to do with flash.

Now, I can get handheld transmitter A to fire off the RF60 remotely, but other than that, I cannot get the flash to go off when I press the shutter release cable or button on my camera. UGH!!! :-(

[Class A]

I believe the quick answer to your problems is that you need a camera triggering cable that connects the V6 with the camera. For Pentax, that's a simple audio stereo cable with 2.5mm and 3.5mm male connectors. Cactus sell a short version of that (SC-C1).

Here's a more elaborate answer:

1 V6 in transmitter mode to act as a trigger for both camera and flash. (I put the V6 on the camera hotshoe because I was 'guessing' this is where it went). It was set to Group B, Channel 2 with a 91 ms delay.

The V6 that triggers both camera and flash(es) can go anywhere. Let's refer to it as "release trigger" from now on.

Typically, it would be in one of your hands. To take the shot with this "HSS with the V6 (without dedicated equipment)" workaround, you need to fully press the test button on this very trigger. Do not use the camera's shutter release button or any other remote.

You do not need any delay setting for this trigger. I recommend to set delay to "OFF". Otherwise, you'll just delay execution of the shot.

1 V6 in receiver mode as a remote trigger to trigger the camera. (I used this if off camera mode) It was set to Group B, Channel 2 with a 91 ms delay.

This receiver must be connected to the camera with a shutter release cable.

It definitely must not have any active delay. Set delay to "OFF" on this one.

Verify that the camera takes a shot by fully pressing the test button on the release trigger.
If that does not work, fully press the test button on the trigger that is connected to the camera via the cable. If that does not fire the camera either, the cable is not functioning as it should.

An RF60 set to Group B, Channel 2, Manual mode, 91 ms delay at 1/1 power.

The RF60 needs to be in "Slave" mode so that it responds to the release trigger. Group B must be active on the release trigger. Make sure the flash fires when you full press the test button on the release trigger.

In your setup, the RF60 is the only device to have an actual delay setting. If both camera and flash fire, but you don't see a contribution of the flash on the image, you need to adjust the delay time. Jumping in steps of 4ms should allow you to find the right ballpark and then you can fine-tune with 1ms from there.

Watch for the shutter release of the camera and the emission of the flash to occur at the same time and adjust the delay value accordingly.

Still nothing. I tried to put the RF60 in Master mode, then Slave 1 mode, then HSS mode, still nothing.

As noted before, the RF60 needs to be in Slave mode so that it can respond to the release trigger. Engaging HSS mode is recommendable as it will give you a true burst at any power level.

If you don't use HSS, you need to use full power (1/1), or else the flash pulse will be too short to fully illuminate all of the frame.

1 camera triggering cable. (It's one of those 'Pixel 252 timer remote control cables) in single mode.

I believe this is the reason why you are not having any success.

The idea behind my trick is to fire both camera and flash(es) at the same time. This can only be accomplished by triggering them from the same source (the release trigger in my proposal) and delaying the flash(es) to compensate for the shutter lag delay of the camera.

[Class A]

@maxfield_photo: Your description was spot on, except this bit:

Unit [B], the receiver, needs to be mounted on the hotshoe, and connected to the remote shutter release port on the camera via cable [C]

It is not necessary to put the receiver on the camera's hot-shoe.

In general, I think it is a good idea to not put in the camera's hot-shoe as this may cause the camera to be triggered again when it fires and may also lead to electrical ground problems.

P.S.: There is another setup where the receiver is indeed on the camera's hot-shoe, but this one only works for shutter speeds that do not exceed the sync-speed (1/180s) and then the release trigger and the receiving trigger need to have "relay" mode activated.

[photokaybrown]

I finally received my 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable from Amazon yesterday. And today, I hooked everything up, got it up and running, and lo and behold, the flash worked in HSS with my camera, for about 5 minutes. Then everything quit communicating, the RF60 started 'freaking out' and began firing off constant flashes on it's own until it began overheating and I had to shut it off. I'm not sure why after I turned everything off, then turned everything back on, all having the same settings as before, why it would decide just to stop communicating. The two V6s were blinking green, the RF60 was flashing firing constantly, and I just could not get anyone to play nicely. ARGGGHHH!!!

Kay

I don't think I ever posted this idea of how to use the V6 and a shutter release cable to achieve HyperSync / HSS with a Pentax DSLR without using any P-TTL equipment, here:

One needs

[A]: 1 x V6 (or V5) (in transmitter mode) to act as a trigger for both camera & flash(es)

[B]: 1 x V6 (or V5) (in receiver mode) as a remote trigger to trigger the camera

[C]: 1 x camera triggering cable (connecting [B] to the camera). For Pentax, this is a simple 2.5mm to 3.5mm stereo audio cable. Cactus sell a short version of that (SC-C1).

[D]: N x V6 (in receiver mode) (or RF60) for off-camera flash(es)

The simple "trick" is to set a delay on all V6 attached to flashes (or on all RF60) [D] that corresponds to the shutter lag of the camera.

With this setup, one needs to take a shot by fully pressing the test button of [A].

This will fire both camera (through [B]&[C]) and remote flash(es) [D] at the same time. If the delay value is chosen correctly, the triggering of the flash(es) [D] will coincide with the exposure of the frame (as it will compensate for the shutter lag of the camera).

On my Pentax K-5 II and an FA 43/1.9 at f/8 and 1/500s shutter speed, I can consistently illuminate the whole frame when I set an off-camera RF60 to a delay of 91ms.

This technique will work with any flash when using 1/1 "full power", i.e., using the "HyperSync" technique, because a full power pulse is long enough to illuminate all of the frame.

With an RF60 set to "HSS" mode, however, even flash powers less than "1/1" are possible, and the frame illumination will be even (rather than graduated as is unavoidable with the above "HyperSync" technique).

[Class A]

I finally received my 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable from Amazon yesterday. And today, I hooked everything up, got it up and running, and lo and behold, the flash worked in HSS with my camera, for about 5 minutes.

Up to here, everything sounds normal.

Then everything quit communicating, the RF60 started 'freaking out' and began firing off constant flashes on it's own until it began overheating and I had to shut it off.

That is definitely not normal.

I can see two EDIT three potential explanations:

1. Optical triggering on the RF60 is activated and creates further trigger events. Do you have another flash involved? Every time you activate HSS on the RF60, it automatically activates "OS1" (optically triggering on a pre-flash) in an attempt to save you work. With your setup, however, you don't need optical triggering and it can actually interfere with normal operation. Hence, I recommend, after every activation of "HSS", to turn off optical triggering in the menu.
2. Your RF60 developed a defect. It should be tough to damage an RF60 through overheating because it automatically slows down recycling when it is starting to overheat and will eventually refuse to be triggered entirely. This self-protection can be disabled (to some extent) by turning the RF60 off and on again, but I guess you had no reason to power cycle it a lot.
3. EDIT: If the V6 connected to the camera (unit [B] in my description) is incorrectly set to Tx mode, that would explain the mad firing.

So that other can help you, I suggest you

1. ascertain whether the RF60 still works normally (no erratic self-initiated flashing) in standard situations, i.e., on camera, or fired normally through an on-camera V6.
2. report on the settings (channel, group, ...) of each device you use and what is connected to what.

Hope you'll be able to figure out what is going wrong. If it is the unlikely case of a defect, I hope you are still within your one year warranty period.

[maxfield_photo]

I finally received my 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable from Amazon yesterday. And today, I hooked everything up, got it up and running, and lo and behold, the flash worked in HSS with my camera, for about 5 minutes. Then everything quit communicating, the RF60 started 'freaking out' and began firing off constant flashes on it's own until it began overheating and I had to shut it off. I'm not sure why after I turned everything off, then turned everything back on, all having the same settings as before, why it would decide just to stop communicating. The two V6s were blinking green, the RF60 was flashing firing constantly, and I just could not get anyone to play nicely. ARGGGHHH!!!

If both V6s are blinking green on their own, that suggests that the transmitter is issuing the sync command, if just the receiver is blinking green then perhaps it's a short. I would make sure the new sync cord fits both the V6 and your camera snugly. If the cable was/is at all loose, I could see how that might cause the symptom you described.

Also make sure you are using fresh batteries. I normally use rechargeable NiMH batteries for my flash equipment, but I've noticed that the V6s tell me that even freshly charged batteries are running low. I suspect they like high voltages. I've had the best luck with alkaline batteries in my V6s. (Haven't really noticed the battery warning on my RF60s)

Also, I agree with Class A, optical triggering may be causing "flash echoes", where the delay setting may cause another flash to fire in response to the slave flash. I had this problem once when I had been playing around with optical triggering and then switched back to standard radio syncing, but forgot to turn off OS mode. Make sure the optical slave of your master flash is set to off, and/or make sure it is set to "master" or "controller" mode. Make sure that the slave flash(es), in this case your RF60, is the only piece of equipment in the chain that has a delay set, make sure the rest are set to 0 or off.

[photokaybrown]

Both of my V6s were blinking green, and I am using Eneloop batteries. I took out all the batteries from the two V6s and RF60 (that was the only flash I was using), and put fresh batteries in all of them. It didn't change the behavior of every unit, but I did adjust some settings, and went down in the basement where there would be no interference. (I had been testing the equipment in my bedroom where my computer, wifi printer, and modem were, so there may have been some interference, I don't know. I just know that I had to play around with some settings a bit, and when the RF60 began freaking out and randomly firing off shots, I think they were 'test' shots and maybe it was just trying to measure ambient light. When it did that, I would just turn off both V6s, and it would stop. After about half an hour of just checking my settings, and getting the 'rhythm' of the whole process, I was able to use everything fine, but had to realize it takes about 30-60 seconds for the RF60 to cycle up again to take another shot. And even then, I have to gently press the TX (that's connected to the camera via cable) V6 for a second or two, then press all the way, and most of the time, the flash will go off with the exposure. Many times it won't, though. It's a bit wonky. You have to kind of get a 'feel' for it. It's not highly reliable, but it's better than nothing. I wouldn't rely on it do go out and start shooting a sports event with high action, because you won't get all your images with the flash firing. But for those HSS portraits, I think it would to okay in a pinch.

I'd like to thank Class A for all the help. I greatly appreciate it, and thank you for being so patient with me.

[maxfield_photo]

Both of my V6s were blinking green, and I am using Eneloop batteries. I took out all the batteries from the two V6s and RF60 (that was the only flash I was using), and put fresh batteries in all of them.

Sounds like your RF60 is not freaking out then, it's just responding to the V6s (which may be freaking out) if when you turn off the V6s the RF60 stops flashing.

And even then, I have to gently press the TX (that's connected to the camera via cable) V6 for a second or two, then press all the way, and most of the time, the flash will go off with the exposure.

Two things to note here, most importantly, the RX unit, not the TX, should be connected to the camera via the audio cable (perhaps this was a typo?) The TX unit should be held in your hand, it is your "starter pistol" if you will, which starts the race between your camera and the flash, which you've rigged to give your camera a head start (by setting a delay on the RF60).

The other thing is the V6s allow for focus-on-halfpress functionality. This feature allows you to set up a remote camera on a tripod, and focus it remotely with a V6 before it takes the photo. However, if the camera is not confident that it has achieved focus, it may try to do so before it will accept a command to fire. There should be a command in the custom menu of your camera to disable this called AF-S Setting (it's #15 on my K3). Setting that to "release-priority" will allow the camera to fire regardless of whether or not it thinks the subject is in focus. Be careful though, this option prevents a lot of out of focus shots, so use it at your own risk. Setting the lens or the camera body to manual focus will also you to fire at any time.