Cactus V6 misfires on Pentax ME

nono · 11-02-2014, 04:01 PM

Hello,

I took some photos with a couple of remote flashes triggered by Cactus V6 remotes. Everything worked OK with my K-5, but when I tried to grab a few shots with my ME, the triggers misfired (no flash at all) twice out of 8 or 10 shots.

Are there known compatibility issues between the V6 and old SLRs, or is my ME broken in some way? Does anyone have any experience with this kind of setup?

Class A · 11-03-2014, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by nono

Are there known compatibility issues between the V6 and old SLRs, or is my ME broken in some way?

There are no known compatibility issues.

The V6 does not expect much from a camera, except for the central pin trigger signal (centre pin needs to go to ground potential).

I'm assuming that the V6 transmitter on the camera was not triggered at all. You can tell by the green confirmation LED.

Have you tried putting a flash on the ME directly and see whether it may also sometimes misses a trigger signal? If so, the camera is to blame. If not, and the V6 still keeps missing trigger signals from time to time then I can only imagine that perhaps the signal timing on the ME is not consistent and sometimes too short for the V6 to pick up. But that's just a wild guess.

nono · 11-03-2014, 01:59 AM

I have not tried a flash directly on the ME, I will give it a try.

manntax · 11-03-2014, 02:23 AM

From my own quite extensive experience with Cactus V5 - I can say that those misfires are occurying in 3 specific circumstances, from which two are quite obvious :

1) The batteries on either transmiter/receivers or the flash itself were weak and communication either was disturbed or flash simply misfired because was not fully charged ( could happen in your case since you've got through some shooting with K5 before - I assume with the same flashes and no fresh set of batteries). This is my most common reason when I use rechargeable batteries.

2) The communication between the camera and transmitter was disturbed due to transmitter not being tightened in the hot shoe or due to some dirt/grease being on the hot shoe. To remedy this simple use some alcohol-based cleaner and wipe the point of contact with cotton buds.

Now , the last reason isn't that obvious but surprisingly was happening many times ! With some flashes and in *certain* configuration of position of the camera with transmitter on it and the receiver with flash on it - the communication between transmitter and receiver is BLOCKED by the flash itself ! This is happening a lot with some flashes - like older pentax or sunpak flashes.
The remedy was always the same, change the position of receiver+flash combo ( e.g. angled differently ) or position of camera+transmitter combo - by moving slightly - so that flash would not stay in way to the receiver from transmitter. This was happening a lot to me when I had some macro setups with receiver + flash clamped and pointed downwards, and I was shooting from elevated position having my camera on the flash level. The body of flash was blocking the way in direct line from my transmitter to receiver. I was able to position the gear so that I could replicate this misfiring at any rate - this is confirmed, but applies to Cactus V5 , as I haven't gotten the V6 yet.

Hope these help.

Class A · 11-03-2014, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by manntax

1) The batteries on either transmiter/receivers or the flash itself were weak and communication either was disturbed or flash simply misfired because was not fully charged

In this case, the green confirmation light on the transmitter would light up, but not the one on the receiver. That's why I stated my assumption about the transmitter already not being triggered by the camera.

Addressing the issue obviously depends on at what stage the trigger signal is lost.

Originally posted by manntax

2) The communication between the camera and transmitter was disturbed due to transmitter not being tightened in the hot shoe or due to some dirt/grease being on the hot shoe.

In this case, the green confirmation light on the transmitter would not come on.

If this is the case then potentially using the flash directly on the camera won't be 100% reliable either. Alternatively, contact problems could only manifest themselves with the transmitter or there is indeed an issue with the signal duration.

Originally posted by manntax

With some flashes and in *certain* configuration of position of the camera with transmitter on it and the receiver with flash on it - the communication between transmitter and receiver is BLOCKED by the flash itself !

Hmmh, I don't want rule out that you are right, but given the enormous range the V5 and V6 have, there should be a lot of reserve left for the signal to be attenuated by an obstacle, even if it potentially causes radio interference, such as a flash.

Is it possible that these misfires in macro situations were caused by the transmitter being too close to a receiver?
If you go below the minimum distance, which depends on the rotation of the V5/V6 against each other, then the signal is too strong and communication won't work anymore.

For this reason, the V6 has a "SHORT" option for a working range setting. Once this is engaged it is almost impossible to provoke misfires in macro shoots or other scenarios where the transmitter may come into very close proximity to a receiver.

manntax · 11-03-2014, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Class A

Is it possible that these misfires in macro situations were caused by the transmitter being too close to a receiver? If you go below the minimum distance, which depends on the rotation of the V5/V6 against each other, then the signal is too strong and communication won't work anymore.

Quite possible - this usually happened in close receiver-transmitter situations. I would say around between 50-100cm (1 meter) - so quite possible. I actually wasn't aware of any minimal distances, but that would explain the 'short' setting in V6.

nono · 11-03-2014, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Class A

Is it possible that these misfires in macro situations were caused by the transmitter being too close to a receiver?
If you go below the minimum distance, which depends on the rotation of the V5/V6 against each other, then the signal is too strong and communication won't work anymore.

Not in my case, I never was much closer than 1m from any of the flashes, if that close.

No battery issue either; I continued shooting with the K-5 after the ME and the flashes never failed to trigger. I guess I *could* have shot in quick succession so the flashes didn't have time to recycle, but I find it unlikely it happened for both flashes not once, but twice, especially as the ME is an old-style body with manual cocking.

I will try to shoot some pics with a flash directly on the body, and maybe clean the contacts if needed. I'll keep you posted if I find anything.

Class A · 11-03-2014, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by nono

I will try to shoot some pics with a flash directly on the body, and maybe clean the contacts if needed. I'll keep you posted if I find anything.

Watch the green confirmation lights on the transmitter and receiver, if possible.

They will tell you at what part in the chain things go wrong.

BTW, if you are shooting at full power with older flashes, it is easy to beat the recycling time of the flashes with the camera. I therefore wouldn't rule out this potential cause.

philbaum · 11-06-2014, 11:01 AM

Rechargeable batteries have often been a problem for my V5's. They might fire a few times and then stop firing at all. When i started using only alkaline batteries in the V5's, they became incredibly reliable. Took a lot of frustration to finally stumble on that fix.

Does anyone know if the new V6's share that problem, i.e. needing alkaline batteries, which have a higher voltage than rechargeables?

nono · 11-06-2014, 02:17 PM

No problem with rechargeable batteries for me. Well, except this issue with the ME but I'm pretty sure this wasn't a battery issue, the one failure I had with the K-5 was due to a flash with a long-ish recycle time, the batteries in the V6 never failed me.

Class A · 11-06-2014, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

Rechargeable batteries have often been a problem for my V5's.

I've been using Sanyo Eneloops with my V5 without a single problem.

I can imagine that regular rechargeables may cause issues, but the hybrid type (of which the Eneloops are one example) should be fine.

Originally posted by philbaum

Does anyone know if the new V6's share that problem, i.e. needing alkaline batteries, which have a higher voltage than rechargeables?

Since the V6 use AAs instead of AAAs, I could imagine that they are more tolerant against standard rechargeables.

I've been using mine with Sanyo Eneloops and have not had any issues at all. The increased battery life of the AAs is very welcome.

philbaum · 11-07-2014, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I've been using Sanyo Eneloops with my V5 without a single problem.

I can imagine that regular rechargeables may cause issues, but the hybrid type (of which the Eneloops are one example) should be fine.

Since the V6 use AAs instead of AAAs, I could imagine that they are more tolerant against standard rechargeables.

I've been using mine with Sanyo Eneloops and have not had any issues at all. The increased battery life of the AAs is very welcome.

Yep, Sanyo eneloops AAA is what i used in the 3 V5's i had, sometimes not working, sometimes working a few times than failing - what a pain in the ass. when i switched to alkaline AAA in the V5's = no more problems. i didn't figure that out myself - read it somewhere on the internet.

phil

nono · 01-03-2015, 03:25 PM - **1 Like**

Hello,

I was finally able to make a few tests, having finished my last film roll with the ME -- no point wasting film for this kind of testing.

The ME failed to trigger the V6 (no green light on the transmitter) maybe 2-3 times out of 10. After cleaning the hot shoe with alcohol the ratio improved to "much better" -- something like 2 failures in 25 shots. I then tried about 25 more shots with a flash directly attached to the camera, the only failure was because the flash failed to recycle fast enough.

So I guess my ME is faulty after all, or at least it would deserve a more thorough cleaning. I have been trying a ME Super lately, which I found far better than the ME for ambient light photography; I hope it will prove as good with flash.

11-02-2014, 04:01 PM	#1
nono Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Paris, France Posts: 248	Cactus V6 misfires on Pentax ME Hello, I took some photos with a couple of remote flashes triggered by Cactus V6 remotes. Everything worked OK with my K-5, but when I tried to grab a few shots with my ME, the triggers misfired (no flash at all) twice out of 8 or 10 shots. Are there known compatibility issues between the V6 and old SLRs, or is my ME broken in some way? Does anyone have any experience with this kind of setup?

11-06-2014, 02:58 PM	#11
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by philbaum Rechargeable batteries have often been a problem for my V5's. I've been using Sanyo Eneloops with my V5 without a single problem. I can imagine that regular rechargeables may cause issues, but the hybrid type (of which the Eneloops are one example) should be fine. Originally posted by philbaum Does anyone know if the new V6's share that problem, i.e. needing alkaline batteries, which have a higher voltage than rechargeables? Since the V6 use AAs instead of AAAs, I could imagine that they are more tolerant against standard rechargeables. I've been using mine with Sanyo Eneloops and have not had any issues at all. The increased battery life of the AAs is very welcome. Last edited by Class A; 11-06-2014 at 04:42 PM.

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11-03-2014, 01:29 AM	#2
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by nono Are there known compatibility issues between the V6 and old SLRs, or is my ME broken in some way? There are no known compatibility issues. The V6 does not expect much from a camera, except for the central pin trigger signal (centre pin needs to go to ground potential). I'm assuming that the V6 transmitter on the camera was not triggered at all. You can tell by the green confirmation LED. Have you tried putting a flash on the ME directly and see whether it may also sometimes misses a trigger signal? If so, the camera is to blame. If not, and the V6 still keeps missing trigger signals from time to time then I can only imagine that perhaps the signal timing on the ME is not consistent and sometimes too short for the V6 to pick up. But that's just a wild guess.

11-03-2014, 01:59 AM	#3
nono Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Paris, France Posts: 248 Original Poster	I have not tried a flash directly on the ME, I will give it a try.

11-03-2014, 02:23 AM	#4
manntax Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,972	From my own quite extensive experience with Cactus V5 - I can say that those misfires are occurying in 3 specific circumstances, from which two are quite obvious : 1) The batteries on either transmiter/receivers or the flash itself were weak and communication either was disturbed or flash simply misfired because was not fully charged ( could happen in your case since you've got through some shooting with K5 before - I assume with the same flashes and no fresh set of batteries). This is my most common reason when I use rechargeable batteries. 2) The communication between the camera and transmitter was disturbed due to transmitter not being tightened in the hot shoe or due to some dirt/grease being on the hot shoe. To remedy this simple use some alcohol-based cleaner and wipe the point of contact with cotton buds. Now , the last reason isn't that obvious but surprisingly was happening many times ! With some flashes and in certain configuration of position of the camera with transmitter on it and the receiver with flash on it - the communication between transmitter and receiver is BLOCKED by the flash itself ! This is happening a lot with some flashes - like older pentax or sunpak flashes. The remedy was always the same, change the position of receiver+flash combo ( e.g. angled differently ) or position of camera+transmitter combo - by moving slightly - so that flash would not stay in way to the receiver from transmitter. This was happening a lot to me when I had some macro setups with receiver + flash clamped and pointed downwards, and I was shooting from elevated position having my camera on the flash level. The body of flash was blocking the way in direct line from my transmitter to receiver. I was able to position the gear so that I could replicate this misfiring at any rate - this is confirmed, but applies to Cactus V5 , as I haven't gotten the V6 yet. Hope these help.

11-03-2014, 05:51 AM	#5
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by manntax 1) The batteries on either transmiter/receivers or the flash itself were weak and communication either was disturbed or flash simply misfired because was not fully charged In this case, the green confirmation light on the transmitter would light up, but not the one on the receiver. That's why I stated my assumption about the transmitter already not being triggered by the camera. Addressing the issue obviously depends on at what stage the trigger signal is lost. Originally posted by manntax 2) The communication between the camera and transmitter was disturbed due to transmitter not being tightened in the hot shoe or due to some dirt/grease being on the hot shoe. In this case, the green confirmation light on the transmitter would not come on. If this is the case then potentially using the flash directly on the camera won't be 100% reliable either. Alternatively, contact problems could only manifest themselves with the transmitter or there is indeed an issue with the signal duration. Originally posted by manntax With some flashes and in certain configuration of position of the camera with transmitter on it and the receiver with flash on it - the communication between transmitter and receiver is BLOCKED by the flash itself ! Hmmh, I don't want rule out that you are right, but given the enormous range the V5 and V6 have, there should be a lot of reserve left for the signal to be attenuated by an obstacle, even if it potentially causes radio interference, such as a flash. Is it possible that these misfires in macro situations were caused by the transmitter being too close to a receiver? If you go below the minimum distance, which depends on the rotation of the V5/V6 against each other, then the signal is too strong and communication won't work anymore. For this reason, the V6 has a "SHORT" option for a working range setting. Once this is engaged it is almost impossible to provoke misfires in macro shoots or other scenarios where the transmitter may come into very close proximity to a receiver.

11-03-2014, 06:16 AM	#6
manntax Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,972	Originally posted by Class A Is it possible that these misfires in macro situations were caused by the transmitter being too close to a receiver? If you go below the minimum distance, which depends on the rotation of the V5/V6 against each other, then the signal is too strong and communication won't work anymore. Quite possible - this usually happened in close receiver-transmitter situations. I would say around between 50-100cm (1 meter) - so quite possible. I actually wasn't aware of any minimal distances, but that would explain the 'short' setting in V6.

11-03-2014, 11:47 AM	#7
nono Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Paris, France Posts: 248 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A Is it possible that these misfires in macro situations were caused by the transmitter being too close to a receiver? If you go below the minimum distance, which depends on the rotation of the V5/V6 against each other, then the signal is too strong and communication won't work anymore. Not in my case, I never was much closer than 1m from any of the flashes, if that close. No battery issue either; I continued shooting with the K-5 after the ME and the flashes never failed to trigger. I guess I could have shot in quick succession so the flashes didn't have time to recycle, but I find it unlikely it happened for both flashes not once, but twice, especially as the ME is an old-style body with manual cocking. I will try to shoot some pics with a flash directly on the body, and maybe clean the contacts if needed. I'll keep you posted if I find anything.

11-03-2014, 01:22 PM	#8
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by nono I will try to shoot some pics with a flash directly on the body, and maybe clean the contacts if needed. I'll keep you posted if I find anything. Watch the green confirmation lights on the transmitter and receiver, if possible. They will tell you at what part in the chain things go wrong. BTW, if you are shooting at full power with older flashes, it is easy to beat the recycling time of the flashes with the camera. I therefore wouldn't rule out this potential cause.

11-06-2014, 11:01 AM	#9
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Rechargeable batteries have often been a problem for my V5's. They might fire a few times and then stop firing at all. When i started using only alkaline batteries in the V5's, they became incredibly reliable. Took a lot of frustration to finally stumble on that fix. Does anyone know if the new V6's share that problem, i.e. needing alkaline batteries, which have a higher voltage than rechargeables?

11-06-2014, 02:17 PM	#10
nono Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Paris, France Posts: 248 Original Poster	No problem with rechargeable batteries for me. Well, except this issue with the ME but I'm pretty sure this wasn't a battery issue, the one failure I had with the K-5 was due to a flash with a long-ish recycle time, the batteries in the V6 never failed me.

11-07-2014, 01:16 AM	#12
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Class A I've been using Sanyo Eneloops with my V5 without a single problem. I can imagine that regular rechargeables may cause issues, but the hybrid type (of which the Eneloops are one example) should be fine. Since the V6 use AAs instead of AAAs, I could imagine that they are more tolerant against standard rechargeables. I've been using mine with Sanyo Eneloops and have not had any issues at all. The increased battery life of the AAs is very welcome. Yep, Sanyo eneloops AAA is what i used in the 3 V5's i had, sometimes not working, sometimes working a few times than failing - what a pain in the ass. when i switched to alkaline AAA in the V5's = no more problems. i didn't figure that out myself - read it somewhere on the internet. phil

01-03-2015, 03:25 PM - 1 Like	#13
nono Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Paris, France Posts: 248 Original Poster	Hello, I was finally able to make a few tests, having finished my last film roll with the ME -- no point wasting film for this kind of testing. The ME failed to trigger the V6 (no green light on the transmitter) maybe 2-3 times out of 10. After cleaning the hot shoe with alcohol the ratio improved to "much better" -- something like 2 failures in 25 shots. I then tried about 25 more shots with a flash directly attached to the camera, the only failure was because the flash failed to recycle fast enough. So I guess my ME is faulty after all, or at least it would deserve a more thorough cleaning. I have been trying a ME Super lately, which I found far better than the ME for ambient light photography; I hope it will prove as good with flash.