[EarlVonTapia]

I just got a YN560 III today. I've been trying to set it up so I can use it in conjunction with my AF 540 FGZ (first version).

I have it set so that they are both optical off-camera slaves, triggered by my on-board flash (with an IR blocker attached).

For whatever reason, I can't seem to get them both to fire at the same time and both to add to the exposure. If I use each one individually, I can get them to trigger no problem. But when I try and get them to trigger together to combine their flash outputs, I can't.

On-board flash is set to wireless mode. Both flashes are in full manual mode.

Here are some optical trigger setting scenarios:

YN 560 III in SL1 by itself = triggers as normal

YN 560 III in SL2 by itself = triggers, but does not add to exposure

AF 540 GZ in SL1 by itself = triggers as normal

AF 540 FGZ in SL2 by itself = triggers, but does not add to exposure

Both flashes in SL1 = Only the YN 560 fires, and only its flash adds to exposure

Both flashes in SL2 = Both flashes fire, but nothing is added to exposure

YN 560 in SL1, AF 540 FGZ in SL2 = Both flashes fire, only the YN 560 adds to exposure

YN 560 in SL2, AF 540 FGZ in SL1 = Only the YN 560 fires, nothing is added to exposure




Ideally, what I would like to happen is the following:

Both flashes fire, both flashes add to exposure.


I've tried searching for an answer to this, but no one seems to have come across this situation (or maybe my Google-fu is not strong enough).

Is what I want even possible with these two flashes?

Thanks for reading.

[johnmflores]

Try setting your on-camera flash to normal not wireless and your strobes to SL1. SL2 is used for P-TTL.

[EarlVonTapia]

Try setting your on-camera flash to normal not wireless and your strobes to SL1. SL2 is used for P-TTL.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I just tried it out:

- The YN 560 by itself will trigger from the on-board flash regardless of whether the on-board setting is just normal or wireless mode.

- The 540 FGZ will only trigger from the on-board flash if the setting is on wireless mode (normal does nothing).


It seems like when I pair the two flashes together, the on-board flash can only trigger one of the flashes, and the YN 560 seems to be the preferred one.

EDIT: I should add this before someone mentions it. I know that triggers are the way to go. I'm getting some soon, but I need to use this setup for this coming weekend and ordering triggers won't come on time. That's why I'm trying to make this work.

[SOldBear]

Disclaimer: I've never used the YN560 III. What I know is from reading the manual on line.

The 540FGZ has 2 wireless modes:

1. SL1 - P-TTL wireless. The 540FGZ is triggered by the built-in flash, or another 540FGZ, or a 360FGZ. This mode requires an elaborate communication between the master (or control) and the slave flash. The sequence:
   1. The master flash emits the initial strobe. The mirror is still in the down (viewing) position.
   2. The slave flash emits a reply strobe telling the master that it's ready. This strobe is also used for metering. Mirror goes up.
   3. Shutters open. The master flash emits a strobe, telling the master to fire, also how much power.
   4. The slave flash fires the actual strobe. Shutters close and mirror goes down.
2. SL2 - Dumb slave. The 540FGZ is triggered by any strobe from anywhere.

The built-in flash has 3 firing modes:

1. P-TTL mode: a pre-flash strobe for metering, and a main strobe during exposure.
2. P-TTL wireless mode: to control a slave flash as above.
3. Manual mode: One strobe during exposure. This mode requires a manual lens being used. I don't know about your camera, but most Pentax DSLRs fire at full power in this mode.

The YN560 III has two slave modes:

1. S1: Dumb slave. Triggered by any strobe from anywhere.
2. S2: Ignoring the pre-flash strobe as in P-TTL mode, triggered at the second strobe.

You can see that the only mode in which the 540FGZ and YN560 are compatible is the dumb slave mode. You want the built-in flash to fire only one strobe to trigger both of the slaves. But you need a manual lens to force this mode. If the built-in flash is in P-TTL mode, the pre-flash strobe will trigger the slave flashes before actual exposure.

The best way I can think of is to get a small flash with power ratio settings, set it at the lowest power level and attach it to the camera's hotshoe to trigger the 540FGZ in SL2 and the YN560 in S1 mode.

Important note:

1. If you need to put the built-in flash in P-TTL wireless mode for testing, also set the 2 sec delay on the camera. There will be a 2 seconds between step 2 and step 3 in the sequence above. It's easier to observe which flash fires and which does not.
2. To make sure the test is valid, do the test in front of a mirror, and make sure all flash units are visible in the photo. Oftentimes, it's difficult or impossible to tell if a flash is firing during actual exposure.

---

Last edited by SOldBear; 01-28-2015 at 11:30 PM.

[EarlVonTapia]

Disclaimer: I've never used the YN560 III. What I know is from reading the manual on line.

The 540FGZ has 2 wireless modes:

1. SL1 - P-TTL wireless. The 540FGZ is triggered by the built-in flash, or another 540FGZ, or a 360FGZ. This mode requires an elaborate communication between the master (or control) and the slave flash. The sequence:
   1. The master flash emits the initial strobe. The mirror is still in the down (viewing) position.
   2. The slave flash emits a reply strobe telling the master that it's ready. This strobe is also used for metering. Mirror goes up.
   3. Shutters open. The master flash emits a strobe, telling the master to fire, also how much power.
   4. The slave flash fires the actual strobe. Shutters close and mirror goes down.
2. SL2 - Dumb slave. The 540FGZ is triggered by any strobe from anywhere.

The built-in flash has 3 firing modes:

1. P-TTL mode: a pre-flash strobe for metering, and a main strobe during exposure.
2. P-TTL wireless mode: to control a slave flash as above.
3. Manual mode: One strobe during exposure. This mode requires a manual lens being used. I don't know about your camera, but most Pentax DSLRs fire at full power in this mode.

The YN560 III has two slave modes:

1. S1: Dumb slave. Triggered by any strobe from anywhere.
2. S2: Ignoring the pre-flash strobe as in P-TTL mode, triggered at the second strobe.

You can see that the only mode in which the 540FGZ and YN560 are compatible is the dumb slave mode. You want the built-in flash to fire only one strobe to trigger both of the slaves. But you need a manual lens to force this mode. If the built-in flash is in P-TTL mode, the pre-flash strobe will trigger the slave flashes before actual exposure.

The best way I can think of is to get a small flash with power ratio settings, set it at the lowest power level and attach it to the camera's hotshoe to trigger the 540FGZ in SL2 and the YN560 in S1 mode.

Important note:

1. If you need to put the built-in flash in P-TTL wireless mode for testing, also set the 2 sec delay on the camera. There will be a 2 seconds between step 2 and step 3 in the sequence above. It's easier to observe which flash fires and which does not.
2. To make sure the test is valid, do the test in front of a mirror, and make sure all flash units are visible in the photo. Oftentimes, it's difficult or impossible to tell if a flash is firing during actual exposure.

SOldBear, I think that works!

My mistake before was that when I had the 540 FGZ in SL2 and the YN 560 in SL1, the on-board flash was in wireless mode, and for some reason the flashes didn't like that.

Now the on-board flash is just normal (as johnmflores suggested), and with the FGZ in SL2 and the YN560 in SL1 (as per your suggestion), they're both triggered at the same time, and the exposure captures both flashes.

Strobist time!

Thanks both of you!

E

---------- Post added 01-28-15 at 11:06 PM ----------

Okay, just a quick update.

I've been testing this setup again (and going blind in the process). Here's a curious finding.

The setup works the way I want it to, but ONLY if I keep the flashes at 1/4 power or less (which is more than enough for my purposes).

At 1/2 and 1/1, the flashes will fire, but they do not add their light to the exposure.

The fact that both of the flashes seem to stop contributing their flash to the exposure at 1/2 and 1/1 suggests to me that this is some weird Pentax hardware/firmware limitation. I'm not sure, but I'm too tired right now to surf the interwebs for a possible answer, and also my eyes are in agony from all the flashing. I'll do more testing tomorrow.

[mee]

How did it work? Did you ever figure out how to get both to work at 1/2 or 1/1 power?

[EarlVonTapia]

How did it work? Did you ever figure out how to get both to work at 1/2 or 1/1 power?

Hey Mee, thanks for the reminder.

No, I haven't figured out how to trigger the YN 560 or the AF 540 and have them add their flash to the exposure at 1/2 or 1/1 using the on-board flash in any mode. At 1/2 and 1/1, they will trigger, but their light will not be added to the exposure.

It's a weird problem.

Using an AF 200 SA, I am able to trigger those flashes at 1/2 or 1/1 AND have them add their flash to the exposure. It even works with the Sunpak with Foto-Eye at 1/2 or 1/1.

This makes me believe that it's some weird hardware/firmware limitation in the Pentax body.

[SOldBear]

No, I haven't figured out how to trigger the YN 560 or the AF 540 and have them add their flash to the exposure at 1/2 or 1/1 using the on-board flash in any mode. At 1/2 and 1/1, they will trigger, but their light will not be added to the exposure.

It's a weird problem.

Using an AF 200 SA, I am able to trigger those flashes at 1/2 or 1/1 AND have them add their flash to the exposure. It even works with the Sunpak with Foto-Eye at 1/2 or 1/1.

This makes me believe that it's some weird hardware/firmware limitation in the Pentax body.

No, there is nothing weird. That's the way things are designed.

Please re-read my post above. It explains the symptom very well.

The remote flashes are triggered by the preflash strobe of the built-in flash. This does NOT add to the exposure.

If you set the ratio of the remote flashes at 1/4 or lower, after they were triggered by the preflash strobe, there is sufficient charge left for them to fire when triggered AGAIN by the main strobe of the built-in flash, happening about 1/30 sec after the preflash strobe. At 1/2 and 1/1, the remaining charge is not enough for them to fire after the first time.

As I stated, run the experiment with the camera set at 2 sec delay and observe the sequence.

The AF-200A does NOT fire a preflash strobe (it predates p-TTL). It fires only ONE strobe during exposure. The remote flashes are triggered during exposure and fire during exposure. This is EXACTLY what I wrote:

The best way I can think of is to get a small flash with power ratio settings, set it at the lowest power level and attach it to the camera's hotshoe to trigger the 540FGZ in SL2 and the YN560 in S1 mode.

[EarlVonTapia]

No, there is nothing weird. That's the way things are designed.

Please re-read my post above. It explains the symptom very well.

The remote flashes are triggered by the preflash strobe of the built-in flash. This does NOT add to the exposure.

If you set the ratio of the remote flashes at 1/4 or lower, after they were triggered by the preflash strobe, there is sufficient charge left for them to fire when triggered AGAIN by the main strobe of the built-in flash, happening about 1/30 sec after the preflash strobe. At 1/2 and 1/1, the remaining charge is not enough for them to fire after the first time.

As I stated, run the experiment with the camera set at 2 sec delay and observe the sequence.

The AF-200A does NOT fire a preflash strobe (it predates p-TTL). It fires only ONE strobe during exposure. The remote flashes are triggered during exposure and fire during exposure. This is EXACTLY what I wrote:

Hmm, for some reason what you typed didn't really register with me. I get it now, nothing mysterious. That answers that. Thanks!

E

[mee]

Thanks, guys.