[mcgregni]

I use the Pentax 540 models combined with Cactus RF60 for a two-flash wireless HSS solution. The one feature I think is really important on the Pentax 540 units (both I and II), is the ability to choose 'master' OR 'controller' triggering mode , EVEN WHEN IN HSS SYNC MODE.

I shout that out because its not a given on all other alternatives ... It needs to be carefully checked out before buying. It is important because you need the controller mode to avoid wasting power with your on-camera flash firing at full power trying to light a scene it may not even be pointed at ! The control flash needs to be able to turn around to point directly at the optical slave sensor to get maximum reliability, especially outdoors. If the on-camera flash only acts as 'master' during HSS Sync' then if you need to turn it away from the scene the metering will likely try and fire it strongly as no light from it will be detected. In ' controller' mode it is extremely efficient and flexible.

---

Last edited by mcgregni; 06-15-2016 at 03:28 AM.

[redcat]

yeah, the Metz 52 AF-1 is absolutely a solid flash, and with the touch screen in plus congratsssss

[mcgregni]

This issue also needs consideration if you choose a flash that cannot act as a P-TTL trigger in HSS mode ... There is at least one Metz model that has some control setting problem that prevents this configuration. The consequence of this is again that the flash is working as a normal on-camera light and the metering system is looking for illumination from that flash which it won't find if it has been angled towards a slave flash sensor. So the camera cranks up the power demand from the flash in a futile attempt the light the scene. You may just get messy light spill into the frame. Negative flash compensation settings are likely to have only minimal impact as the system is still trying to light the scene with a light that is not even pointed into the frame. ....

This setting issue had other implications as well, as ClassA and I discovered a while back when I found that my RF60 delay timings were significantly different to those that ClassA reported in his review ....

The reason for this variance was the two different operating modes on our on-camera flashes. In my case I used a Pentax AF-540FGZ II set to 'P-TTL Wireless Control' PLUS 'HS Sync' mode ... In ClassA's case it was a Metz model that could only work in normal, non-wireless, mode along with HSS. These different modes produce different P-TTL wireless pre-flash sequences .... The Wireless mode from the Pentax produces a longer pre-flash sequence than the non-wireless one, so the timing delay is longer for the wireless operating flash. I found the RF60 needed 100ms and this covered the whole range from 1/200th through to 1/8000th secs. This may vary with different camera models I guess ...

[bdery]

Now, though, how do I trigger them in an off camera configuration?

Any ideas for using my onboard Pentax K-5ii flash controller or the Cactus V6?

The Metz 52 AF-1 can be an optical slave (triggered when it sees another flash pop), or it can be controlled wirelessly via PTTL (your camera's flash acts as the commander or master, depending on your intention).

[comprock]

Thank you guys for the information. Seems I'll take Friday to experiment like crazy and hopefully find a workable solution.

Do you know if I can control power on a second Metz 52 from the first?

[RGlasel]

Do you know if I can control power on a second Metz 52 from the first?

If you mean the first Metz communicating with the second (with more control than just firing as an optical slave), the answer is no. Any wireless control will be from the camera to each flash, not between the flash units. As far as I know, the P-TTL system doesn't allow the camera to send different commands to each flash, so if you want different power levels from different flashes, you will have to set EV compensation in advance on each Metz flash. From experience, I would say your camera will not know that you have changed the EV setting on your Metz flashes, which can work to your advantage in some situations and to your disadvantage in other situations.

[comprock]

I experimented with the Metz 52 being fired by my Pentax K-5ii using the onboard flash as the triggering mechanism yesterday morning. Even with pointing the flash sensors directly towards my camera and moving them within a meter to 2-meters of my camera, I couldn't get the flashes fire off consistently enough to be confident for upcoming shoots.

With that, I went and pulled out the Cactus V6 transmitter to see if that could help. Nope…

So while I'm liking these Metz 52 for on camera or corded TTL use, they're not ready yet for group shots. That's a problem for me because groups are my forte.

I realize I could buy a second Cactus RF60 for my rolling bag and leave a Metz 52 in my backpack for TTL needs, but carrying three flashes on trips when I'm only wanting two at most is a pain. I've thought to go the long corded route for Metz 52, say a 9-foot P-TTL cord, but the reality is that it's still only putting the light a meter or so away from the camera on a tripod or in hand. Then using the Cactus V6 to fire the Cactus RF60 on the second stand.

This scenario doesn't seem to work for me because when you get to about 50 person groups, I need to put the lights about 5-8 meters apart with the camera near the middle and fire consistently. I'm not worried about TTL for using during groups. With a couple or three test shots, you can nail down the power settings.

So I'm back to reading the Cactus V6 capabilities and wondering, do I sell my Cactus RF60 and Metz 52s and get two Metz 58s or two Pentax 540s.

What's your guy's thoughts?

---------- Post added Jun 19th, 2016 at 17:40 ----------

The Metz 52 AF-1 can be an optical slave (triggered when it sees another flash pop), or it can be controlled wirelessly via PTTL (your camera's flash acts as the commander or master, depending on your intention).

For this mode, am I putting the flash in to Slave, Servo, or both modes work fine?

Yesterday, I was popping the flash, but I wasn't too sure about reliability for us outside, even in shade.

[RGlasel]

they're not ready yet for group shots

Just to be clear, you want to use multiple (two at least) flashes to take pictures of groups of people? You probably don't need HSS for that, and if you have the opportunity to fire a few test shots you can use cheap dumb radio triggers and set your flash power manually. That way you don't have to spend more money on flashes and you can do your HSS work with one of your Metz flashes on-camera. If you want HSS capability with multiple off-camera flashes, that's a lot more complicated.

[comprock]

@RGlasel, I'm not needing HSS for the groups. I would like it for martial arts, but that's a later worry to my properly lighting up groups.

I've gotten to really like being able to control power and zoom with my Cactus V6 for the Cactus RF60. I'm wanting that same capability with whatever flash units I end up with. That said, I'm considering to sell the two newly bought Metz 52 AF-1 and buy a single Pentax 540FGZ II or a Metz 58 AF-2.

Supposedly, the Cactus V6 supports those two flashes and they have the power I'm looking for. However, what I'm not clear on is this, I figure the Cactus V6 can pop the flashes, but does it offer power control too of them. Does anyone actually use the 540 or the Metz 58 and know?

[mcgregni]

How many radio triggers have you currently got Michael? Did you have one attached to the Metz 52 when you were trying to trigger it, and what mode was the Metz set to?

---------- Post added 20-06-16 at 05:25 ----------

Most radio triggers, including V6s, allow only manual power control over other brand and TTL type flashes, and the remote zoom control is (in the case of the Cactus products) restricted to the RF60 only.

The RF60 is also different to your Metz in having a V6 receiver 'built-in .... other TTL type flashes like a Pentax or Metz only have optical sensors 'built in, and so need another radio receiver unit attached to be triggered by radio.

---------- Post added 20-06-16 at 05:42 ----------

It would help us give more help if you could explain why you might be selling the Metz 52 and are thinking of buying the Pentax AF540 or Metz 58. At the moment there's no reason to believe that your triggering issues would change with new and different flashes ....

---------- Post added 20-06-16 at 05:55 ----------

If, as I'm assuming, you have one V6, then that's a good reason to get another RF60....a two flash radio solution with full manual control and zoom. For non HSS work that's fine. For the reasons I detailed earlier(about 'master/control' wireless modes) then I understand you might want the greater control available from the Pentax units. For normal P-TTL on-camera and wireless slave work then the Metz 52 should be fine, and also as a manual controlled radio triggered flash.

[bdery]

For this mode, am I putting the flash in to Slave, Servo, or both modes work fine?

Yesterday, I was popping the flash, but I wasn't too sure about reliability for us outside, even in shade.

I suggest you read this:

Metz 52 AF-1 Flash Review - Introduction | PentaxForums.com Reviews

It should answer your questions.

[Class A]

Even with pointing the flash sensors directly towards my camera and moving them within a meter to 2-meters of my camera, I couldn't get the flashes fire off consistently enough to be confident for upcoming shoots.

So unless there is some user error that should rule out any optical triggering solution for you, right?

With that, I went and pulled out the Cactus V6 transmitter to see if that could help. Nope…

Unfortunately, the Metz 52 (for Pentax) is one of the few modern flashes the Cactus V6 is not compatible with w.r.t. remote power control (the same model is supported for Canon/Olympus, but not for Pentax for some reason). By selecting a manual flash profile, you may still be able to trigger the Metz 52 on a V6 receiver, though. You'd then have to select the power on the flash manually.

I've gotten to really like being able to control power and zoom with my Cactus V6 for the Cactus RF60. I'm wanting that same capability with whatever flash units I end up with. That said, I'm considering to sell the two newly bought Metz 52 AF-1 and buy a single Pentax 540FGZ II or a Metz 58 AF-2.

Both 540 FGZ II and Metz 58 AF-2 are compatible with the Cactus V6 for remote power control. So either of them would solve your problem.

It would help us give more help if you could explain why you might be selling the Metz 52 and are thinking of buying the Pentax AF540 or Metz 58. At the moment there's no reason to believe that your triggering issues would change with new and different flashes ....

He would definitely gain remote power control via a Cactus V6. Not sure about triggering as I think that should work with all three of those models. Not sure about the 52, but the other two definitely can be triggered and even remotely power-controlled.

[comprock]

Thank you for great information and thoughts @mcgregni, @bdery & @Class A.

My trouble is that I'm on the road 6-9 months a year for work and photography. As such, I'm not able to carry equipment that doesn't serve more than one purpose. Beyond this, when I'm home, I live in a small home without closet space. With these things combined, I sometimes buy kit only to move onto something else a week or two later as I realize my shortcomings or its. Yes, I'm spending money to learn at times. However, once I've found my solution, I'm able to practice and get consistent results that I and others appreciate. And to me, that's what matters.

I've tried profiling the Metz 52s with the Cactus V6, that's a no go.

Last evening, I was able to use the V6 to pop the RF60 which in turn popped the Metz 52 in servo mode. Even better, it was working in the shade and moderate sunlight with the lights about 5 to 6 meters from each other. I've learned that how the Metz 52 is turned makes a huge difference in reliable flash operations.

I was able to dig into researching that the Cactus V6 does provide power control of the Metz 58 and Pentax 540FGZ I & II from multiple resources.

Given that while I'm usually able to setup my group shot areas with lights and fine tune sans people. That few moments of not having to run from flash to flash for power adjustments is a headache and delay I need not have once people are in front of my lens. This is regardless of my using P-TTL or manual mode.

To these ends, I'm looking to trade my three flashes for a couple of Metz 58s and Pentax 540FGZ IIs. I'll keep the one Cactus V6 I have. I know that down the road, I'll probably want some of this kit back, but frankly, I'm an event shooter, not a model or concept one at this time. Therefore, lighting control and modifier needs are on the simplified side of life for these days.

[Class A]

To these ends, I'm looking to trade my three flashes for a couple of Metz 58s and Pentax 540FGZ IIs. I'll keep the one Cactus V6 I have.

Note that you'll need one V6 receiver for each remote flash you want to trigger/control.

You won't be able to trigger any flash other than the RF60 with just one V6 unit.

[rawr]

I'm looking to trade my three flashes for a couple of Metz 58s and Pentax 540FGZ IIs.

With that sort of proposed spend, you are heading towards the $$ realm of another Pentax flash solution, with HSS support to boot:
PRIOLITE – HotSync – High Shutter Speeds for Pentax | FLASH HAVOC