[marianne718]

I shoot events using P-TTL almost exclusively with a k20d on a rotating bracket topped by a stationery Pentax 540 FGZ connected to the camera hotshoe with Pentax branded off camera connections (F hot shoe adapter and F5P extension cord). I and my clients have been very happy with the results.

Lately however I've been having ongoing problems with unreliable connections and thought it might make more sense to go with a wireless transceiver set up instead of a hard wire to fire the flash (which sits about 6 inches above and a bit to the right of the lens.)

Two questions: 1. will a pair of wireless transceivers work with this bracket set up (I.e. there is no direct line of sight from the lens to the flash)?

2. Which transceivers, if any, work with off-camera P-TTL? Been reading a lot of conflicting information on this topic. I use manual flash settings for studio work but really want to stick with P-TTL for events because it's so much easier and the results have been great.

Thanks for you help.

Marianne718

[panoguy]

I don't think you will find a more reliable off-camera flash connection than a corded one. Maybe check your cables and connectors? The old AF-540FGZ has a notorious plastic shoe mount foot... it might be getting worn. The new 540II has a metal foot.

FYI: many wireless radio transceivers won't even work well under 3 feet apart, mainly due to interference between their antennas. I know the Cactus V6 has a special "short range mode" which (presumably) lowers the radio output power, but they are manual flash (not P-TTL) only.

Currently, there are no P-TTL radio triggers for Pentax. I say "currently," because I'm working with a developer on a radio trigger that does transmit full P-TTL, but it's not ready for prime time, yet.

[WPRESTO]

Reliable flash connection has always been a problem. Old timers like me have long since lost count of how many times we've twisted a plug in a PC socket to try to improve the contact*. With the setup you've described, if you're having trouble with the contacts, replace the cord rather than going wireless. If you go wireless, you will not have PTTL or TTL of any kind, only manual flash control. One thought: the Pentax system has four plug points where connections can go bad: hotshoe to first adapter, first adapter to wire, wire to second adapter, flash to hotshoe on second adapter. Consider a Vello or other TTL wire dedicated to Pentax to eliminate two of the possible connection-failure points. And be sure to twist the locks at wire-to-camera and flash-to-wire so the locking pin engages to keep both inserted contacts fully in position.

*IMHO electronic cable releases suffer the same contact problem. Why on earth manufacturers gave up on mechanical cable releases, a technology proven for over 100 years, defies logic and understanding.

[Oldbayrunner]

Currently, there are no P-TTL radio triggers for Pentax. I say "currently," because I'm working with a developer on a radio trigger that does transmit full P-TTL, but it's not ready for prime time, yet.

I beg to differ with you, I successfully use the Aokatec radio system P-TTL utilizing my on board flash with my two 540fgz's, and/or either P-TTL or Hss up to 1/8000 using my Sigma 610super as a wireless P-TTL/Hss controller and the 540's in wireless slave/wireless Hss slave.

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Last edited by Oldbayrunner; 07-02-2015 at 03:44 AM.

[UncleVanya]

I beg to differ with you, I successfully use the Aokatec radio system P-TTL utilizing my on board flash with my two 540fgz's and/or either P-TTL or Hss up to 1/8000 using my Sigma 610super as a wireless P-TTL/Hss controller and the 540's in wireless slave/wireless Hss slave.

This confuses me. Can you supply a diagram? I ask because you mention using the on board flash and a radio trigger - not sure how you do both and if you are using the on-board flash as P-TTL master your bypassing the radio for that - I'm lost. Can you detail this for me?

[sterretje]

This confuses me. Can you supply a diagram? I ask because you mention using the on board flash and a radio trigger - not sure how you do both and if you are using the on-board flash as P-TTL master your bypassing the radio for that - I'm lost. Can you detail this for me?

Read up on the Aokatec It fits over the onboard flash and transmits the light signals via radio.

[marianne718]

I don't think you will find a more reliable off-camera flash connection than a corded one. Maybe check your cables and connectors? The old AF-540FGZ has a notorious plastic shoe mount foot... it might be getting worn. The new 540II has a metal foot.

FYI: many wireless radio transceivers won't even work well under 3 feet apart, mainly due to interference between their antennas. I know the Cactus V6 has a special "short range mode" which (presumably) lowers the radio output power, but they are manual flash (not P-TTL) only.

Currently, there are no P-TTL radio triggers for Pentax. I say "currently," because I'm working with a developer on a radio trigger that does transmit full P-TTL, but it's not ready for prime time, yet.

In my case, it's definitely the connections and not the flash itself, which fires reliably if seated directly on the camera. I run the extension cord from a hot shoe adapter on the camera directly into the flash unit (as opposed to another adapter). Still, there are too many potential trouble spots to check, which results in some heavy sweating when something goes awry while the bride is walking down the aisle.

Thanks for the short range info on the wireless transmitters. I was not aware of this limitation. More importantly, I wish you much success in your work developing a P-TTL radio trigger and look forward to purchasing a set when they're ready.

---------- Post added 07-02-2015 at 06:43 AM ----------

Reliable flash connection has always been a problem. Old timers like me have long since lost count of how many times we've twisted a plug in a PC socket to try to improve the contact*. With the setup you've described, if you're having trouble with the contacts, replace the cord rather than going wireless. If you go wireless, you will not have PTTL or TTL of any kind, only manual flash control. One thought: the Pentax system has four plug points where connections can go bad: hotshoe to first adapter, first adapter to wire, wire to second adapter, flash to hotshoe on second adapter. Consider a Vello or other TTL wire dedicated to Pentax to eliminate two of the possible connection-failure points. And be sure to twist the locks at wire-to-camera and flash-to-wire so the locking pin engages to keep both inserted contacts fully in position.

*IMHO electronic cable releases suffer the same contact problem. Why on earth manufacturers gave up on mechanical cable releases, a technology proven for over 100 years, defies logic and understanding.

Yes, you've described the set up and the problems perfectly. Too many connections, too many points of potential failure. I've eliminated one connection (flash to hotshoe on second adapter) by connecting the cord directly into the flash unit, which now sits on a dumb hotshoe on the horizontal bar of the bracket. This works fine until the connections begin to fail elsewhere, as they invariably do.

Guess I'll be replacing the hard wire components yet again, until something better comes along. Panoguy's work (see earlier post) sounds very promising.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

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Last edited by marianne718; 07-02-2015 at 04:51 AM.

[max_pyne]

Read up on the Aokatec It fits over the onboard flash and transmits the light signals via radio.

i looked at it if you are referencing to this "IR Panel for built-in/Pop-up flash" its not radio its Infra red. which most probably means they have a special filter that blocks the visible light and lets only the IR pass. Still a nice idea as you will not see IR nor the Camera (if its not a IR camera).

[marianne718]

Read up on the Aokatec It fits over the onboard flash and transmits the light signals via radio.

Please tell me more about the Aokatec and whether or not you think they might work for my set up, I.e., firing wireless P-TTL to an off camera flash unit mounted on a bracket above the camera less than a foot away. From what I've read on their web site, it appears to be possible, (page 5 of Aokatec instruction manual http://www.aokatec.com/pdf/Aokatec%20AK-TTL%20instruction.pdf) unless I'm misreading.

[max_pyne]

Please tell me more about the Aokatec and whether or not you think they might work for my set up, I.e., firing wireless P-TTL to an off camera flash unit mounted on a bracket above the camera less than a foot away. From what I've read on their web site, it appears to be possible, (page 5 of Aokatec instruction manual http://www.aokatec.com/pdf/Aokatec%20AK-TTL%20instruction.pdf) unless I'm misreading.

sorry was looking at the wrong ones....:-) thanks for linking the instructions. Looks great!

[Oldbayrunner]

Please tell me more about the Aokatec and whether or not you think they might work for my set up, I.e., firing wireless P-TTL to an off camera flash unit mounted on a bracket above the camera less than a foot away. From what I've read on their web site, it appears to be possible, (page 5 of Aokatec instruction manual http://www.aokatec.com/pdf/Aokatec%20AK-TTL%20instruction.pdf) unless I'm misreading.

I have been using this system successfully for close to two years in many situations, I imagine it may work but I haven't used it with a camera flash mount bracket per say. At short distances, P-TTL can be possible wirelessly either with or without using the Aokatec. Simply the Aokatec used in conjunction with an onboard flash uses a shield (aka Nikon Shield) to effectively cut the light emitted from the cameras flash unit and as mentioned transmits via radio signal utilizing the small amount of light emitted through the slits on shield. Now not utilizing a transmitter using that same shield mounted to the hot shoe in conjunction with the onboard flash can transmit also wirelessly to a P-TTL compatible flash, depending on the lighting and placement of the off camera flash, can be used also in some cases. The shield blocks in most cases if used properly the onboard flash's emitted light from being a lighting factor in off camera flash lighting . Could the onboard flash utilizing the shield work with a P-TTL flash on a camera mounted bracket, I doubt it as I believe the receiver part of the flash wouldn't be facing correctly but I could be wrong on that.

[panoguy]

I beg to differ with you, I successfully use the Aokatec radio system P-TTL utilizing my on board flash with my two 540fgz's, and/or either P-TTL or Hss up to 1/8000 using my Sigma 610super as a wireless P-TTL/Hss controller and the 540's in wireless slave/wireless Hss slave.

Is that the one with the rubber bands to attach its optical sensors to the flash and slave flashes, and then relies on the built-in Pentax optical system? Congratulations, I think you're the second person I've ever head of who has gotten them to work.

To use them with a K-3II, 645Z, or (presumably) FF Pentax, they require a P-TTL flash (Master capable) on top and the Aokatec trigger attached to the front of that, which, IMHO, is in the same league of hinkyness as a Cactus V6 with TTL pass-through and delay, and all of this to end up using the standard Pentax optical P-TTL triggering. At least the Cactus has groups and manual control, etc.

Radio-only TTL transmission (no rubber bands, just put a transmitter in the hot shoe) is what Canon & Nikon have from many, many manufacturers... but still nothing for Pentax - not even the Priolite HSS radio transmits exposure data.

[Class A]

Radio-only TTL transmission (no rubber bands, just put a transmitter in the hot shoe) is what Canon & Nikon have from many, many manufacturers... but still nothing for Pentax - not even the Priolite HSS radio transmits exposure data.

Cactus have announced a future HSS-capable version of their V6 radio trigger:

"..., we are working on version that will support HSS and the current V6 will be supported by a simple firmware update."

Intended release date is sometime in 2015.

BTW, I also have difficulty believing that the Aoatec triggers can address the OPs problem. They are the only option if one wants true P-TTL over radio, but are bulky and reliability with a good cable over short distances should be at least as good.

[Class A]

I say "currently," because I'm working with a developer on a radio trigger that does transmit full P-TTL, but it's not ready for prime time, yet.

Are you at liberty to say who the developer is? Sounds exciting.

[Oldbayrunner]

Is that the one with the rubber bands to attach its optical sensors to the flash and slave flashes, and then relies on the built-in Pentax optical system? Congratulations, I think you're the second person I've ever head of who has gotten them to work.

To use them with a K-3II, 645Z, or (presumably) FF Pentax, they require a P-TTL flash (Master capable) on top and the Aokatec trigger attached to the front of that, which, IMHO, is in the same league of hinkyness as a Cactus V6 with TTL pass-through and delay, and all of this to end up using the standard Pentax optical P-TTL triggering. At least the Cactus has groups and manual control, etc.

Radio-only TTL transmission (no rubber bands, just put a transmitter in the hot shoe) is what Canon & Nikon have from many, many manufacturers... but still nothing for Pentax - not even the Priolite HSS radio transmits exposure data.

Yes... Thank you it does pay to read the set up directions thoroughly. They are not too complex......You are the one that stated there was no radio trigger to date that works Pentax P-TTL which is not the case, no matter how hinky P-TTL still works. So if it is too hinky for you so be it but others may still care to know there is a product available that can. When and if Cactus or another company comes up with a P-TTL/Hss radio then I would consider switching.