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08-30-2015, 09:32 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
The ready light comes on but that does not mean it will fire.
That is proof positive of a fault. Is this the case even with the test button on the rear of the flash?

In regards to Precision and the warranty repair...Is Ricoh/Pentax in the loop still? You may want to suggest replacement.


Steve

08-30-2015, 09:55 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
I use my 540 Mk1 with and external PSU and can fire 30-40 high speed bursts and the flash does not power down it the camera can't keep up.
what power level? at or under sync speed?

i have two 540fgz flashes, neither of 'em allows for manual power control in hss mode.

QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
I've never had a Pentax flash over heat either.
wish i could say that about my sony flash! it's never failed on me personally, but the thing has a horrible rep for overheating.

it allows for manual power control in hss mode, but it won't do hss when it's pointed straight up

i don't know why flash systems have to be such a challenge for these companies? it's not rocket science.
08-30-2015, 10:04 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
what power level? at or under sync speed?
Impossible to tell it in P-ttl the example was 1/180 with 55mm @ a 5ft target iso400

If I need fast flash recovery I ensure the flash is not firing full power as that kill recovery time . It appear logarithmic

But with the PSU full flash recovery is about a second Vs 3 of nimh in body

In real life I shoot @25-50M @iso3200 and the flash keeps up with my bursts (3-5 in sequence) often in HSS

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
i have two 540fgz flashes, neither of 'em allows for manual power control in hss mode.



wish i could say that about my sony flash! it's never failed on me personally, but the thing has a horrible rep for overheating.

it allows for manual power control in hss mode, but it won't do hss when it's pointed straight up

i don't know why flash systems have to be such a challenge for these companies? it's not rocket science.
That was why a bought the PSU to allow rapid shooting in HSS where I found the internal body bats couldn't keep up.

I suppose now if you have the bottle you can put NI-Zn in the flash it'll keep up then though perhaps best todo whilst flash is under warranty !
08-30-2015, 10:57 AM   #34
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My 540ii works great because I use the proper batteries-never alkaline!! Furthermore, with the K-3 sensor and certainly the Z sensor, I use higher ISO thus not demanding as much from the flash. And then I use a sensible F-stop like 5.6 or 8. Never F11!!! That will demand even more from the flash. Use your common sense and rudimentary camera basics and you will find yourself liking the flash-- because you are using it right!

08-30-2015, 11:14 AM   #35
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Good video demo! That's exactly the reliable performance I've experienced with the Mk1 540 as well, in fact faster fps on the K7 even with internal AA batteries. I do hope my new MkII will do the same ....
08-30-2015, 02:30 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
+1 for Eneloops
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Eneloops Eneloops Eneloops.
Great tip, thanks! I had to Google "Eneloops" as I though you guys were talking about an African animal.

I'm still in the Mercury & Silver Oxide Battery time period!

Phil.
08-30-2015, 06:12 PM   #37
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In response to your replies I have run a comparison test between my canon 580EXii flash, and the pentax AF540FGZII flash.

First off, using the same batteries used last night at the wedding recycle time from a full discharge was 10 seconds using the Pentax flash.

Full discharge was forced by using f22 with the camera lens against a black seat cushion blocking incoming light into the camera's sensor.

Using a fresh set of batteries in the pentax flash, full recycling time was 3 seconds. After 2 shots verifying the same recharge time, the same batteries were removed from the pentax flash and inserted into the canon flash. The canon flash recycled in 1 second, verified by a second operation.

This tells me that for my two flashes, the pentax is 3 times slower to recycle from a full discharge than a comparable canon flash.

I appreciate your comments on better batteries, etc., that makes this thread worthwhile, at least for me. I'm aware that in most situations the pentax flash is good enough and produces good exposure results within its limitations, however its not up there with the canon flash quality. My canon flash is about 7 years old and has seen significant use. One thing I like about the canon flash is the flip out white card which the pentax flash lacks.

I've only been on this forum since getting the 645Z but have the impression that Pentax has a way to go to improve customer service and does lack behind canon and Nikon in some applications.

I'm consider whether to sell the Pentax flash and replace it with a Metz or to keep it. I've had it too long to return it.

08-30-2015, 06:34 PM   #38
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I used the AF540 FGZII along with four Yongnuo 560III units on 1/16 power with either eneloops or duracell NiMh 2400 mah rechargeables. It worked reliably under very heavy recycling, something like 250 discharges over 10 minutes or so. It didn't lag the Yongnuo's, in fact was a bit quicker. The batteries would get hot and slow down the recharge from time to time.
08-30-2015, 06:55 PM   #39
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Derekkite- as you have noted, the key is not to use any flash on full power. Use an assortment of flash off camera to get a more modeling effect.
08-31-2015, 04:12 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by PhilRich Quote
In response to your replies I have run a comparison test between my canon 580EXii flash, and the pentax AF540FGZII flash.

First off, using the same batteries used last night at the wedding recycle time from a full discharge was 10 seconds using the Pentax flash.

Full discharge was forced by using f22 with the camera lens against a black seat cushion blocking incoming light into the camera's sensor.

Using a fresh set of batteries in the pentax flash, full recycling time was 3 seconds. After 2 shots verifying the same recharge time, the same batteries were removed from the pentax flash and inserted into the canon flash. The canon flash recycled in 1 second, verified by a second operation.

This tells me that for my two flashes, the pentax is 3 times slower to recycle from a full discharge than a comparable canon flash.

I appreciate your comments on better batteries, etc., that makes this thread worthwhile, at least for me. I'm aware that in most situations the pentax flash is good enough and produces good exposure results within its limitations, however its not up there with the canon flash quality. My canon flash is about 7 years old and has seen significant use. One thing I like about the canon flash is the flip out white card which the pentax flash lacks.

I've only been on this forum since getting the 645Z but have the impression that Pentax has a way to go to improve customer service and does lack behind canon and Nikon in some applications.

I'm consider whether to sell the Pentax flash and replace it with a Metz or to keep it. I've had it too long to return it.
So your complaint Pentax was crxp was based on 10 sec with flat alkaline !!

I assume you 'new' battery are NiMH ?

Your current recharge is 3 seconds in line with what was promised.

As the Canon and Pentax are both specified to the same re-charge times I can only assume your 580ii was not fully discharged or is faulty

A 1 second recharge for GN58 would melt your poor AA's or your flash the current requirement to charge a capacitor from 0- approx 330V is not something four AA can deliver that is why you have external power sources that can feed HV directly.

My external PSU has 8 AA + the 4 AA in the flash to provide the power required to charge in 1sec

It just physics
if you need 5secs to charge from alkalines you will need 3secs todo the same from NiMH and if you want 1 second charge you need 3 times the power delivery i.e 12 AA's

Here is the Spec for your Canon
Number of Flashes Approx. 100 to 700, with fresh AA-size alkaline batteries
Recycling Time Approx. 0.1 to 6 seconds, with fresh AA-size alkaline batteries

Interestingly Canon 580EXii is optimised for Alkaline use from Pg 8 of their manual
" Using size-AA batteries other than the alkaline type may cause improper battery contact due to the irregular shape of the battery contacts. "

As every other manufacturer optimises for high current AA's it difficult to understand why.

If the 580EXii was capable of 1se recharges off 4AA then how could they sell the cp-e4 ext PSU ?

---------- Post added 31-08-15 at 12:42 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by gosman Quote
Derekkite- as you have noted, the key is not to use any flash on full power. Use an assortment of flash off camera to get a more modeling effect.
Thats a very important point a capacitor takes some serious grunt to shove it up from 0v but will charge considerably faster if it has some potential left in it.

Which I think the OP demonstrated with his non effective full discharge strategy testing Pentax Vs Canon

Not sure what F22 firing auto (presumably ettl Vs pttl ) is supposed to accomplish it certainly wouldn’t necessarily fully discharge a flash capacitor rather putting the flash in manual and test firing 1:1 would probably be more effective

Or to be certain open the flash and use a brinkley stick on the capacitor is probably the only way to be sure of use case.

Best test for the OP would be put both in manual 1/2 power set the camera to continuously fire at a shutter speed low enough to count and see which flash stops first .. That would show which recovers fastest.

Last edited by awaldram; 08-31-2015 at 04:33 AM.
08-31-2015, 05:55 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by PhilRich Quote
This tells me that for my two flashes, the pentax is 3 times slower to recycle from a full discharge than a comparable canon flash.
the Pentax AF540FGZ set to 58mm at 1/1 power is nearly three stops brighter than a Canon 580EXII at the same zoom setting and power level. When used with HSS it also tends to be more consistent across the frame than Canon flash units when used for HSS.

QuoteOriginally posted by PhilRich Quote
One thing I like about the canon flash is the flip out white card which the pentax flash lacks.
The AF540FGZ has a catch light card, though I have been informed that the AF540FGZII does not. bummer.


QuoteOriginally posted by PhilRich Quote
I'm consider whether to sell the Pentax flash and replace it with a Metz or to keep it.
If you really need power go for a Godox/Bolt/Cheetah 180 or 360 powerpack flash.They are designed to be used off camera with manual wireless control but they are a cut above any AA powered flash unit when it comes to power. Or you could spring for a Elinchrom Quadra ELB 400ws battery powered unit, or the Elinchrom ranger RX AS 1100ws units.

Last edited by Digitalis; 08-31-2015 at 07:34 AM.
08-31-2015, 07:03 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by PhilRich Quote
This tells me that for my two flashes, the pentax is 3 times slower to recycle from a full discharge than a comparable canon flash.
Not necessarily.


AFAIK, Canon and Nikon flashes report "ready" before they're fully charged from zero. They may report ready to do a fractional discharge after 1 second, not necessarily a full discharge.


The Pentax flashes don't report "ready" before they're fully charged from zero. And that's frustrating when doing bursts of fractional flashes.


Regards,
--Anders.
08-31-2015, 07:11 AM   #43
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If the two flashes maximum discharge is indeed 3 f/stops different then firing into the black at f/22 is an unfair test. Setup a scene with real objects that you can get the Pentax cycling as slowly as you were bothered by and then setup a Canon camera and the Canon flash and see what results you get - using the same ISO and f/stop allowing each flash to light the scene. My guess is that the performance will be more similar then than the torture test because the Pentax has a brighter total output and will use less of the reservoir per shot. But I could be wrong.

It sucks that this has not been a great experience.
08-31-2015, 07:32 AM   #44
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I think the OP has the new MkII 540 model, which has lost the catchlight panel. The new idea is to use the front facing LED lamp for forward fill and catchlight.

Really, this is fairly untested so far ..... There's been mixed reactions. There's one obvious advantage, that it remains forward facing even with side bounce. I use side and up bounce more often which renders a catchlight panel useless, whereas the LED will remain forward facing no matter which way the flash head is angled.

I am curious to see the results .... Should be able to soon.
08-31-2015, 07:49 AM   #45
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A couple more bits of advice some already mentioned here, but, my two cents worth anyway.

Test the way you shoot. Figure out how want to do an image, then set up so both systems are the same. There is absolutely no value in testing situations using settings you would never use. You learn nothing useful. Testing is time consuming, don't waste your time.

You absolutely must eliminated all variables in a test situation, so the one you are testing for is isolated, and the only thing being tested.

The vast majority of my images shot with APS-c are taken at ƒ5.6 and ƒ8. That is based on actually comparison of images taken at different ƒ stops and checking the exifs of the keepers after finishing the batch.
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