[troika]

I hate to post questions that I feel like I should be able to find through my own research. I have read several helpful pieces here and some general "so you want to know how to use a flash..." articles elsewhere on the web, but I could use some direct advice if someone would be so good as to indulge me.

When I bought my K5ii 3 years ago I vowed not to use a flash for a year. Not using one has improved my photography significantly. I learned to shoot on film, but have been gradually dumbed down with the rest of the population by point and shoot automation and needed to reconnect with it. I went back to film for about 6 months and then bought my K5ii and shoot both now. I still don't feel the need to use a flash with film.

3 Years later, I've barely used a flash, but I'm at a point where I think it's time. I do use the on-camera flash effectively in sunlight with a subject in the foreground. Where I think I need it now is in two places:

1) Bounce flash indoors
2) Macro photography

I have a small collection of modern and legacy lenses. It's probably not important that I use manual aperture lenses for bounce flash, but my Macro lens is totally manual. I get that ring flashes are a common best solution for macro photography and I THINK that they are not going to help me otherwise. Certainly they don't enable me to bounce off of a wall.

I'm ashamed to admit that I've used an LED flashlight for macro in the past and I have used the on-camera flash, but I can't do that at 1:1 macro with it without getting a lens shadow over the subject. It seems to me that if I had a tilt flash that I could trigger wirelessly I could position it to use for macro as well, but I'm not finding posts of people claiming success with that method.

I liked the look (and price) of the new Metz flash that came out and I see used ring and hotshoe flashes at reasonable prices, but I haven't been confident that I knew what I need in a flash. I did see that useful chart that compared features, but I'm not sure what I really need. I'd rather not have multiple solutions, but tell me if I just need to get over that. I don't see myself at this point doing a lot of flash photography, so I don't want to over-invest, but I do want to get what I need and if it comes down to it, I will. I have a few macro lenses that I was going to list "sale or trade" and request flash units as trades, but I don't trust that I will understand what I'm being offered.

Help?

[BrianR]

I'm ashamed to admit that I've used an LED flashlight for macro in the past and I have used the on-camera flash, but I can't do that at 1:1 macro with it without getting a lens shadow over the subject. It seems to me that if I had a tilt flash that I could trigger wirelessly I could position it to use for macro as well, but I'm not finding posts of people claiming success with that method.

Wireless flashes I can move around are just about all I use for macro stuff, generally with a home made softbox that looks like the one shown here (my 'new' version has stylish black duct tape covering it):


Portable Frog Studio by Brian Robin, on Flickr

Some people use a DIY softbox like this with the flash attached to the camera either in the hotshoe (a contraption similar to this will make shadows from the lens a thing of the past), or attached to a bracket. Actually with a simple pringles-can type of diffuser, you can do pretty well with even the built in flash (Build a Macro Photo Flash Diffuser From a Pringles Can - The UberReview or a dozen other examples on the web).

I usually have my flash on a light stand or tripod so I can move it around where I like. And I often have more than one flash in play. You just need a flash with manual controls, and a means to trigger it off camera for the most flexibility (there are many wireless triggers to choose from these days). A fancy p-ttl flash thingie should work too, but I went the cheaper route and have been happy. There's no one right way to do this, and you'll find many variations for macro setups.

A ring flash on its own for macro is a relatively straightforward way to light your subject but it can also make it tough if you want to avoid a blacked out background. A secondary flash can be helpful here or you've got to be careful in positioning the background or you have to be willing to accept the black background (some people like it).

[Oldbayrunner]

http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/

http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/

[troika]

Bought my first can of Pringles in years this morning...going to look for some help eating my way to the bottom so that I can build some sophisticated studio equipment.

That, I think combined with some better knowledge of how to use a flash unit with a tilt/swivel head on and off of the camera, should more than meet all of my needs for the foreseeable future.

Thank you guys for your inputs. I'm still listening if anyone else has anything that they think would be useful.

[Class A]

Oldbayrunner gave you two very useful links. The gear recommendations of the first resource are outdated, however.

I'd get a flash with a built-in radio trigger. You can get one from Cactus, Godox, or Yongnuo. I'd go for the Cactus model because of the richer functionality and the best usability of the trigger.

N.B., I don't think you want a ring flash. Their use is rather limited and even in macro photography they aren't as useful as they may first appear due to the flat and boring light they provide.

[Oldbayrunner]

To true, He really needs to go back and update for more modern application. Thanks for mentioning that.

[derekkite]

A flash with some kind of modifier to soften it a bit, used remotely either wireless transmitter or optical triggering works well for macro. I've also seen people use reflectors to concentrate the light a bit more on the subject, which would extend the usefulness of natural light by filling the shadows.

[clackers]

Reflectors are probably more useful on plants or whatever than on people - plants don't squint! :-)


The pop up sort fold flat and take up little room in your bag.

[troika]

I noticed that the built in flash doesn't cast a shadow with my macro lens unless I'm using the hood. That tells me that a hotshoe mounted flash with a simple diffuser would probably be okay for macro with or without the hood and then I could use it for bounce as well.

Now, the question is which one.

Local craigslist has an AF400FTZ and a AF-360FGZ. Looks like the latter could be wirelessly triggered, but not the former. Neither swivel, but both tilt.

I have a few lenses for sale or trade in the forums and I was going to see if someone offered something in trade. Thanks for all of the advice.

[BrianR]

I'll 3rd the utility of a reflector. A collapsible 5-in-1 is very versatile, I almost always have a 60cm one with me. An even smaller one would be fine for macro stuff. You can also do pretty well with little bits of white cardstock and aluminum foil as custom sized reflectors, and parchment paper as a DIY diffuser.

If you plan to use the flash on-camera for bouncing indoors, you might want to stick with something that swivels - handy for sending your bounce of to the side and crucial if you use your camera in portrait orientation. For strictly off-camera use the swivel becomes much less important, ditto for on-camera macro.

Also, TTL is not supported by the newer dslr's like your k5ii, so the AF400FTZ would only function as a manual flash (this flash also seems to lack an Auto-Thyristor mode). For full auto features you need a pTTL model like the AF-360FGZ.

And any flash can be triggered wirelessly with radio triggers. Class A recommended models with built in triggers (you'd need to get a transmitter to attach to the camera). If I were starting out, these would seem very appealing.

[atupdate]

For hot shoe mounted flashes where you don't have areas suitable for bouncing, I use a DIY diffuser per this website DIY Reflector-Diffuser.

I've made two of them, one regular size (I use this one the most) and one smaller size . My camera backpack has a sleeve for a laptop, so I have a great area to store the diffuser flat.



Here are a couple of with and without photos to show how well it knocks down shadows.

Without


With


And some actual results:





Tim

[bdery]

I do use the on-camera flash effectively in sunlight with a subject in the foreground.

aperture probably often closes to around f22, lowering sharpness and nicreasing DOF, when using the uilt-in flash under sunlight. A HSS flash will help greatly.

1) Bounce flash indoors

Pretty easy to master. Find a white surface and direct your PTTL flash on it.

2) Macro photography

my Macro lens is totally manual.

No problems with that. I often shoot in manual too.

It seems to me that if I had a tilt flash that I could trigger wirelessly I could position it to use for macro as well, but I'm not finding posts of people claiming success with that method.

Here:



Manual flash handheld to the left of the camera, no modifiers. I could have used wireless PTTL too, but the flash I used was a Godox V850, offering only manual controls. Radio triggered, but in a pinch most flashes have a slave mode where they detect the firing of the on-board flash.

I don't think you want a ring flash. Their use is rather limited and even in macro photography they aren't as useful as they may first appear due to the flat and boring light they provide.

I agree with that.

You mention Metz. they make excellent products, well built, full-featured and reliable. If you do a lot of macro, it might be worthwhile to get a flash head that tilts down, for use mounted on the hotshoe. You will want to experiment to decide what you enjoy best.

[troika]

Thanks for your inputs (everyone). I'm learning a lot here.

I've got a couple of lenses listed in the classifieds and a flash is in my near future.

[mcgregni]

Ringflash seems to have been discounted here due to 'flatness', but doesn't the Pentax one offer something superior here with its split semi-circular tubes and independent contrast control (ratio control of each side of the ring).... ?

[BrianR]

Ringflash seems to have been discounted here due to 'flatness', but doesn't the Pentax one offer something superior here with its split semi-circular tubes and independent contrast control (ratio control of each side of the ring).... ?

Yes:

Pentax AF160FC Auto Macro Ring Flash (Guide No. 53) 30477 B&H

I've never used one, but I imagine it's much more versatile for macro work than a single circular tube. This doesn't avoid my objections though (the black background 'problem' that's much easier to deal with an off camera unit (not that it's insurmountable with a ring flash or even necessarily a 'problem')). Doesn't seem like a great first flash for the OP though- who was also interesting in bouncing indoors, and seems to be aiming at a lower price range.