[Blacknight659]

Alright,

I am looking for an affordable wireless flash controller and flashes. I want to control 3 flases (or more in the future). I was set on the Cactus system, however.... I just found the YN560-TX system. I feel this system is cheaper and may work great for me.

I want to use this set up for my studio, weddings, and live events.

NOTE: I already have a YN560-III, I want to buy the YN560-TX and 2 x YN560-IV flasehes IF I go with this system.

Camera: Pentax K-5ii


What are your thoughts?

[biz-engineer]

For manual flashes, Yongnuo is the way to go. I have a Cactus V6 + RF60, but even if the Cactus V6 has a passthrough socket, it's essentially a manual solution :-( , RF60 being more expensive than a Yongnuo equivalent flash. I can't tell about the YN560-TX and YN560-IV, but it's for sure a cheaper solution for manual mode.

[Class A]

I was set on the Cactus system, however.... I just found the YN560-TX system. I feel this system is cheaper and may work great for me.

The YN560-TX system is certainly cheaper but you may be paying a price regarding other aspects.

1. Reliability may still be an issue with Yongnuo. Time and again I've read about units failing after a while. Even fanboys like Elvis from TruthHavoc will state that Yongnuo has problems in this regard. Amazon reviews have been quite telling as well, but with new model names and entries, the most devastating statistics are not as easy to find as they have been.
2. The 560 system is pretty much closed. Yongnuo don't even manage reasonable compatibility amongst their own products, let alone to other brands.
3. Usability is not a strong suit of most Yongnuo products, whereas the Cactus products are often exemplary, AFAIC.
4. The Cactus system offers a lot more functionality. You may not need it on day one, but you'll probably find it very useful some day.

You may want to check out my Cactus RF60 review that mentions the extra functionality such as manual HSS, delays, absolute power mode, group cycling, etc. It also contains a comparison to the YN560-III and other flashes. This was written before the YN560-TX was released, but you may still find it useful.

[biz-engineer]

The YN560-TX system is certainly cheaper but you may be paying a price regarding other aspects. Reliability may still be an issue with Yongnuo. Time and again I've read about units failing after a while. Even fanboys like Elvis from TruthHavoc will state that Yongnuo has problems in this regard. Amazon reviews have been quite telling as well, but with new model names and entries, the most devastating statistics are not as easy to find as they have been. The 560 system is pretty much closed. Yongnuo don't even manage reasonable compatibility amongst their own products, let alone to other brands. Usability is not a strong suit of most Yongnuo products, whereas the Cactus products are often exemplary, AFAIC. The Cactus system offers a lot more functionality. You may not need it on day one, but you'll probably find it very useful some day. You may want to check out my Cactus RF60 review that mentions the extra functionality such as manual HSS, delays, absolute power mode, group cycling, etc. It also contains a comparison to the YN560-III and other flashes. This was written before the YN560-TX was released, but you may still find it useful.

You work for Cactus? I saw you are supporting the RF60 on Catcus website... :-)

Well, the RF60 does not have the hotshoe that allow TTL metering, so the RF60 is essentially a manual flash, same as Yongnuo 560 , but twice the price. You can still use the Cactus V6 for remote flashes that support TTL metering but since the Cactus V6 transceiver does not support TTL metering , it's pretty useless.

So, my recommendation is the following:
(1) buy a complete automatic Pentax flash system that fully support TTL metering (that's expensive but it works)
(2) buy a fully manual set of flashes, the radio trigger is only there as a trigger and you can set the power of remote flashed without having to move but you still need to adjust the power of flash units manually. Yongnuo is the best value for money for manual flash units and accessories.

Cactus is presented so that it looks like solution (1) for cheaper than a TTL solutiion , but it's actually not a TTL solution, it is a manual system more expensive than Yongnuo 560. I purchased the Cactus RF60 from the review, and I tested all of it, and I was clearly disappointed. The RF60 review on PF is misleading. Let's be clear, RF60 is a manual flash with RF trigger receiver, same as Yongnuo 560 IV, full stop.

[Class A]

You work for Cactus?

No, I beta-tested the RF60 and V6 and gave Cactus feedback, but I'm not affiliated with Cactus.

I often try to make others as enthusiastic about the Cactus system as I am because I would like to see Cactus survive as opposed to losing a price fight against non-comparable products from Yongnuo. I would want my future equipment to be Cactus gear again as they are well-thought out products that I enjoy using. I would hate to have a Yongnuo fail on me on location, having to use the manual to understand the menus, step through groups with a button even when they are inactive, etc. Admittedly, I have never used an YN 560-TX myself but from what I read about it, it wouldn't be half as fun and efficient to use as a V6.

I saw you are supporting the RF60 on Catcus website... :-)

I don't "support" the RF60 on the Cactus website. I regularly visit the Cactus community forum to see whether I can help someone with a question they have.

The V6 was a game changer as far as Pentax is concerned (other brands had triggers like the Odin before) and hence I'll always be grateful to Cactus for making this great trigger compatible with Pentax. The YN560-TX was released quite a while later so I could not compare it to the V6 in the V6 review. The YN 560-TX only works with a subset of Yongnuo flashes, as opposed to the V6 that is compatible with Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Panasonic, Olympus regarding flash systems and even with Fujifilm regarding TTL pass-through.

Note that the YN560-TX does not allow one to use an on-camera flash on top of the trigger. For me personally, that's not an issue, but others like to use a (potentially P-TTL) on-camera flash in addition to triggering off-camera flashes.

Well, the RF60 does not have the hotshoe that allow TTL metering, so the RF60 is essentially a manual flash, same as Yongnuo 560 , but twice the price.

Yes, the Yongnuo 560-IV is considerably cheaper, but I already described in my first post in what terms you may be paying a price for a cheaper purchase.

To say that it is the "same as Yongnuo 560" given all the differences, does not make one bit of sense to me.

Sure, if you know that you are never going to use the unique features of the V6 & RF60 combo and are happy to get inferior usability and don't mind taking chances with reliability then Yongnuo is a viable choice. However, that does not make them the "same".

You can still use the Cactus V6 for remote flashes that support TTL metering but since the Cactus V6 transceiver does not support TTL metering , it's pretty useless.

"Pretty useless"?

Is a YN 560-TX "pretty useless" as well?
The V6 does everything a YN 560-TX does and much, much more with better usability. How does that make it "pretty useless"?

So, my recommendation is the following:
(1) buy a complete automatic Pentax flash system that fully support TTL metering (that's expensive but it works)
(2) buy a fully manual set of flashes, the radio trigger is only there as a trigger and you can set the power of remote flashed without having to move but you still need to adjust the power of flash units manually. Yongnuo is the best value for money for manual flash units and accessories.

I disagree with the statement that a P-TTL system "works".

P-TTL can be useful in a small number of scenarios, but typically using manual power control over radio (rather than using optical P-TTL triggering) is a much better idea. P-TTL does not support good control over multiple flashes, introduces a shutter lag, etc. There are some shooters for whom P-TTL flashes are the right solution, but to essentially state that if you only pay the money, all your problems are solved, is inappropriate regarding P-TTL.

I also disagree that "Yongnuo is the best value for money for manual flash units and accessories.". Yongnuo offers the cheapest products for sure, but in terms of value for money I don't think they beat Cactus or Godox.

First, there are the usability and compatibility issues that reduce the value straight away. Second, the still existing reliability issues may just double the price, for instance, if one out of two units fail.

I forget where that discussion took place but when I recently wrote something like "With Yongnuo, it is a case of getting what you pay for." someone else objected and said something like "I don't think that's true." arguing that due to the reliability issues you are getting less than you are paying for. There are many happy Yongnuo users who don't have any issues so it is possible indeed that you may get a copy that does not fail after 100 pops or needs a hot-shoe replacement (just google a bit and you'll find many stories of that kind).

Cactus is presented so that it looks like solution (1) for cheaper than a TTL solutiion

That's simply not true from my experience.
Where did you get that from?

I purchased the Cactus RF60 from the review, and I tested all of it, and I was clearly disappointed.

Disappointed by what?
Everything I described in the review, the RF60 can do.

It seems you've read something into the review that I did not write and believed the RF60 is a P-TTL flash. I don't know where else the disappointment may come from.

The RF60 review on PF is misleading.

Pardon?

Where in the review do I ever create the impression that the RF60 is anything else but a manual flash that supports remote power level and zoom control and has some nice and unique additional features like an "HSS sympathy mode"?

There is an image showing the single pin hot-shoe, the modes description only talks about manual modes, and the conclusion discusses why I believe that the lack of P-TTL is not a problem for many shooters.

I seriously cannot believe you are accusing me of misleading people.

FYI, I wrote the RF60 review in February 2014, i.e., it soon will have been two years, and you are the first person ever to suggest that the review is misleading.

[mcgregni]

From a (for now) non-manual system user point of view, I have appreciated the review materials we have available. The Cactus one from ClassA is certainly very comprehensive and helpful, thanks. The point has been made and question raised above about Pentax Dedicated system flash and that it can be preferable for some. I will just add my personal parameters to that ...I have long looked at Cactus and Yongnuo etc as alternatives or additions to my 3-flash Pentax setup, and keep deciding that the proprietary system suits better.

But who am I, and what kind of photographer would be in the same category? Well, I'm a keen enthusiast who wants to re-light domestic portraits mainly, and off -camera work is mostly indoors at home, plus a lot of on -camera (especially HSS) outdoors when out and travelling. I don't need any more flashes than 3 .... That's 1 built-in on the camera plus 2 Pentax '540' models, the mkI and mkII. I am happy enough with the 'line of sight' requirement for my optical trigger system, which works flawlessly indoors even when the flash sensors are not facing the trigger flash. I take advantage of both wireless P-TTL control and full manual. P-TTL gives me easy lighting ratio control to create a main and fill balance, and exposure compensations offer quick brightness adjustments from the camera position(for the global flash exposure) or directly on each flash for more contrast effects if needed.

The P-TTL exposures are quick and effective, especially when needing to shoot quickly. For longer sessions in stable conditions then manual power can be set. The flash units quickly adapt to an on-camera role, and one on-camera flash plus one off-camera can be very effective, using the on-camera one bounced and diffused with the off-camera in a softbox or umbrella. Equally, when shooting in a dynamic way indoors, or outdoors for fill-in and light balancing with reduced background ambient, plus easy HSS capability, either Pentax flash provides that solution .

In my view, for the purposes I've described and for the 'kind' of photographer I am, the Pentax dedicated flash system provides a versatile, reliable, quality and good value answer. If you relate to that type of shooting needs and are the same kind of photographer, then I recommend the Pentax flashes coupled with a DSLR that triggers from the pop-up.

If you have more complex multi-flash set-up needs, need more than 3 units, can't be limited by line of sight , need grouping control and work in big spaces or outdoors in sunshine wirelessly, then you'll need to look at the radio triggered alternative systems. Who are you?

[biz-engineer]

Originally posted by biz-engineer Quote You can still use the Cactus V6 for remote flashes that support TTL metering but since the Cactus V6 transceiver does not support TTL metering , it's pretty useless. "Pretty useless"? Is a YN 560-TX "pretty useless" as well? The V6 does everything a YN 560-TX does and much, much more with better usability. How does that make it "pretty useless"?

I phrase it differently: Cactus V6 has a pass-through hotshoe that can accommodate Pentax, Nikon, Canon flashes that offer TTL metering. But it is useless because the Cactus V6 and RF60 does not offer remote TTL function. Why it is useless? It is useless because when you use the Cactus V6 or RF60, the other Flashes become manual only even if they are $400 flash units. In other words, if you use any off camera flash, it falls back to manual, in that situation, Yongnuo does the same for cheaper. And for the price of a Cactus combo, I can have a Metz 52 for Pentax which supports TTL metering.

[Class A]

Who are you?

Well, the OP stated the he is after an "affordable" solution and wants to "control 3 flashes (or more in the future)".

This doesn't sound like a P-TTL approach is an obvious match, but it is always good to consider all options.

The P-TTL exposures are quick and effective, especially when needing to shoot quickly.

In the interest of giving full advice, I'd add what you stated in another post:

"It is a normal part of the workflow to use Flash Compensation and take positive control to tell the system what you need."

So it seems that typically manual interference is required, diminishing the speed advantage over a manual approach that requires an initial honing in on the right level. This certainly has been my experience with P-TTL and the K-5 II; automatic P-TTL exposures rarely ever worked for me without manually applying compensation.

I'm wondering how you make three P-TTL flashes work for you. The lighting ratio controls (offering only 50%, 303%, and 66%) only seem to be targeted to two flashguns. Does the third, on-camera flashgun, degenerate to an oversized, heavy optical trigger when you use two off-camera flashes? I guess it could be controlled manually and be used as a subtle fill flash, but would it still control the two off-camera flashes this way?

I don't see how P-TTL can work with three flashguns that operate at different levels without requiring you to walk up to the off-camera flashes to set lighting ratios or exposure compensation manually. I tried a quick search but nothing turned up that suggested a use of lighting ratios beyond two flashguns. I always thought this apparent limitation was one of the aspects that made P-TTL outdated and I would be interested to learn whether I have been wrong with this assumption.

I asked the same question about lighting ratio control for more than two flashes in another thread where we started about talking what system-dedicated flashguns bring to the table, so it would suffice to answer the question only there. Hope to be hearing from you about this soon; would be great to either get my assumption confirmed or refuted.

[Class A]

I phrase it differently: Cactus V6 has a pass-through hotshoe that can accommodate Pentax, Nikon, Canon flashes that offer TTL metering.

You forgot to add Olympus, Panasonic and Fuji.

But it is useless because the Cactus V6 and RF60 does not offer remote TTL function.

That's not correct. While all off-camera flashes are controlled manually, due to the TTL pass-through option one can choose to use the on-camera flash either in manual mode as well, or in P-TTL (HSS) mode.

I'd be the first to state that on-camera flash has limited use, but there are a number of shooters who really like to have an on-camera flash in addition to off-camera flashes. Beyond that, they are keen to use the on-camera flash with automatic exposure (and HSS, etc.) support (while keeping the off-camera flashes at constant output). These shooters really want TTL pass-through for the on-camera flash, so this option of the V6 is far from "useless" for them.

It is useless because when you use the Cactus V6 or RF60, the other Flashes become manual only even if they are $400 flash units.

It doesn't make much sense indeed to use a $400 flash as an off-camera flash on a V6 receiver, as usually much cheaper flashgun options exist that achieve the same performance.

The V6 still makes sense for any TTL flashes (cheap or expensive) someone already owns, as it removes the limitations of optical triggering and adds fine (1, 1/2, 1/3, or 1/10 EV) power level control to any such flash, whether its supports it natively or not.

Yongnuo does the same for cheaper.

Please see my above posts, why "the same" simply does not apply.

And for the price of a Cactus combo, I can have a Metz 52 for Pentax which supports TTL metering.

If you want a single flashgun with P-TTL support, the Metz 52 seems like a good choice.

There are numerous good reasons why a solution using manual off-camera flashes works infinitely better for many scenarios than a single P-TTL flash, but if your applications only require simple on-camera flash with automatic exposure then yes, a Metz 52 is a better choice.

[virusn3t]

I use the yongnuo sistem, is cheap, and works fine, but yeah "is cheap", i have already 2 dead flashes yn560iii, i tend to use 200s shots at 1/4 power in less than 1hr, maybe that is part of the problem.

I really want to try the cactus v6, but is almost impossible to find a store in Mexico who carries the brand, i believe Cactus can make internacional shippings, but import duties from China are more expensives than the v6 itself, Yongnuo have a official store here and i can buy at a fair price

[Class A]

i tend to use 200s shots at 1/4 power in less than 1hr, maybe that is part of the problem.

That's ~1 shot at 1/4 every 18s.

That shouldn't cause overheating or be considered particularity stressful, I think.

I really want to try the cactus v6, but is almost impossible to find a store in Mexico who carries the brand

The Cactus dealer page says that the US and Costa are nearest to you. Would you have to pay high import duties for these countries as well? If you can import from the US, Adorama would be an obvious choice, AFAIC.

[bobbotron]

Guys, one flash or another isn't as big a deal as I think is being made here. FWIW, a friend of mine has the yongnuo flash system, I'm considering it or the cactus. They both seem like great systems.

I currently have a cheap sigma P-TTL flash, and a few cheap impact slave strobes. I'm actually planning in the longer term to also get the nice pentax P-TTL flash, diversify things. Each system has it's benefits and uses!

[virusn3t]

That's ~1 shot at 1/4 every 18s.

That shouldn't cause overheating or be considered particularity stressful, I think.


The Cactus dealer page says that the US and Costa are nearest to you. Would you have to pay high import duties for these countries as well? If you can import from the US, Adorama would be an obvious choice, AFAIC.

Yeah but i made at least 72 shots in a row with only 3-5 second beetwen them, maybe still dont enough to break one flash but as i said they are "cheap"

And about the import duties, any product made in China, can be buy in any country like Japan, USA, etc, but made in China have to pay import duties and anti-dumping fees, and are worst in electronics, and maybe can pass trough custom without any payment, or with duties, penalties, a visit to the equivalent mexican IRS to fill the import paperwork... Etc. It just doesnt worth the problems

[Class A]

And about the import duties, any product made in China, can be buy in any country like Japan, USA, etc, but made in China have to pay import duties and anti-dumping fees,...

Interesting, does that also hold for the 'Made in China' iPhone?

If not, then Cactus gear shouldn't be taxed either as Chinese imports, since the company is in Hong Kong, an autonomous territory that shares a border with mainland China.

[virusn3t]

Interesting, does that also hold for the 'Made in China' iPhone?

If not, then Cactus gear shouldn't be taxed either as Chinese imports, since the company is in Hong Kong, anautonomous territory that shares a border with mainland China.

If i buy it and import from a chinese retailer, yes, but is more easy make the purchase from the applestore, Apple sell directly on Mexico trough applestore (if any tax is already paid by apple at this pont), and all purchase include taxes and the price is the same that buy it on any oyher applestore (USA, UK, etc)

Dont know if "Made in Hong Kong" can pass the customs, but even if is just the package the one made in china and not the product itself (the box saying Made in China), you can be charged these duties, Mexico doesnt have an agreement with these countrys (Mexico is a manufacturer country just as China/HomgKong, and pretty much any manufacturer country India, Phillipines, etc) about no tax o very little tax like we have with USA, EU, Japan (consumer countrys).

I dont remember if adorama or bh send to mexico via usps, these packages can go trough custom without duties (most of time) but if theyre send via Fedex, UPS, DHL or similar, these companies work as a forwarded and declare all merchandise, they collect a fee for these "service" and charge any duties generated from the package when they deliver the merchandise.