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12-04-2015, 06:48 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
Okay, in this case, make sure you check out the room at the same time of day as the event will be, so you can judge where the sunlight/skylight/shadows will be.

Don't want to throw any fuel on the other discussion, but my personal experience is that everyone should have both an on-flash diffuser as well as a black foamie thing, to give you all the options. A lot depends on the size of the room and what walls are available as a reflector, and we don't always have control over that.

Good luck!
Tanzer is 100% right on this, I think all you need to figure out is which diffuser you need.

12-04-2015, 06:57 PM - 1 Like   #32
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Tanzer and Miked thanks . I shoot mostly outdoor photos and working at an airport gives me a unique opportunity to photograph airplanes and occasional wildlife. Flash work is an area I need to improve on. All the advice is a welcome learning experience!
The Forum is an excellent resource, thanks to all of the responses.

---------- Post added 12-04-15 at 10:04 PM ----------

Clackers, Nice photos thanks for the help.
ClassA , Thanks !
12-05-2015, 06:13 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
.......

I'm afraid you're doing your usual 'I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm going to keep talking anyway' act, Class A. McGregni must be rolling his eyes. .........

I'm afraid I haven't been following this one, but I just picked that quote up . I guess ClassA and I have had our little rumbles, but I was a bit wary of stepping in here because I actually do extensively use the Gary Fong Lightspheres, plus his 'Powersnoot' product

I was thinking about what I could add to things here .... ah, I know .... have you heard that if you correctly attach (using the patented rubber band and Velcro strap) any Gary Fong Product to a Cactus RF60, then that RF60 is instantly transformed into a fully functioning P-TTL automatic flash unit, and thats a very reasonably priced package .... and that with that combination as your setup you will be constantly accompanied by an entourage of beautiful fit young models who will do anything you want them to in order to fulfil your wildest creative flashing fantasies.....

..... Ok, all right then , so that's really complete speculation .... well. I made it up in fact .... sorry!

For what its worth here is the way I use the Gary Fong modifiers. Indoors in a medium to large sized living room I have a quick and easy set-up I use when the kids are around and I might manage to persuade them to pause a little. I have a blacked out area with black curtains for backdrop, and I set up one AF-540FGZ on a stand with a medium sized softbox placed about 1 meter from the subject at 30-45deg angle. This is my main light, so in P-TTL mode I set a 2/3rd ratio on this softbox flash.

Then I have another AF-540FGZ on-camera, set to 1/3rd ratio (its meant to be fill light), and this one has a Gary Fong Lightsphere on. The head is pointed up and sideways at about 45deg forwards in order to bounce light from an angle approximately opposite to the direction from which the softbox main light is coming from. This provides some contrast reducing fill from the off-side to reduce the shadows and adds sense of a little ambient (even though there is probably no real ambient), and the Lightsphere also automatically provides a little front fill and catchlight no matter which way it is pointed .... if using the AF-540FGZII on-camera I can also activate the LED front facing catchlight as well if I want a little more there.

At other times for a more controlled, edgy flash look, I will use the softbox in the same position as main light, but put the second flashgun on a stand behind the subject at about 45deg, and this time time with the Gary Fong Powersnoot (the one with a silver body and black plastic front grid). This powersnoot provides a tight circle of light which at low power will subtly fill the off-side of the subject and add a little back-rim lighting around hair and shoulder line ... the effect here is more contrasty with deeper shadows. Obviously this is more for fixed positioning where the subject is sitting perfectly. The light-sphere type of fill can be useful if the subject is moving a bit or changing positions as its fills a larger area.

The other good use for a lightsphere is actually on the flash inside the softbox ..... here the lightsphere is actually inside the softbox and causes the light to radiate outwards in all directions, hitting the whole inside of the box, and the effect is softer and wider spread, exactly as if you had a bigger softbox in fact. A plain flash in the softbox pushes the light mostly forwards so the effect is more concentrated. The lightsphere is a good tool to alter this and cause a softer wider spread emanating from the softbox.

Last edited by mcgregni; 12-05-2015 at 08:45 PM.
12-05-2015, 08:53 PM   #34
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OK, here's one I took today with the second set-up I described above .... this is with the softbox main light and the Gary Fong Powersnoot in behind about 40deg around from directly behind the head. The softbox is about 1 meter from the subject, and the Powersnoot is about 0.7 meter behind the subject.

2 x Pentax AF-540FGZs (Mki & MkII), P-TTL mode with ratios 1/3 - 2/3 set, Flash Compensations of about -1.5 stops. Triggered with the K7 pop-up set to 'controller' mode. The lens is the SMC F35-70mm 1:3.5-4.5 .... shot at ISO 200, f6.3


Last edited by mcgregni; 07-15-2017 at 08:38 AM.
12-06-2015, 08:05 AM   #35
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Just found this DIY solution for a speedlight diffuser (credit to sunsaffron).

Such diffusers can produce nice results indoors, as long as they have the supporting surfaces the light bounces off again. I personally would still go for a more discriminating bounce approach, but if one wants a very even, low-contrast look, an omni-directional diffuser can work very nicely.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
The other good use for a lightsphere is actually on the flash inside the softbox...
That's an excellent use of a diffuser.

I do that myself, but I'm using cut-off milk bottles with some aluminium reflector added to avoid hot-spots. They stick to the flash head through the tension of the material. Cost me nothing, except a little time to build them.

The material I use for the BFT (foam rubber) also makes a great snoot. Costs very little money at art supplies, add a rubber band, and off you go.

Last edited by Class A; 12-06-2015 at 08:38 AM.
12-07-2015, 02:18 PM   #36
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I'm not such a great 'DIY Man'. I do find that carefully chosen commercial modifiers can be very useful and reliable .... certainly the Gary Fong ones I'm using do the job and they are very well secured on the flash and will take plenty of movement without coming loose or moving out of position.

Here is another example photo, this time using the first arrangement I mentioned earlier ..... the softbox is in the same front 40 deg position, but this time there is is also an on-camera AF-540FGZII with a GF Lightsphere .... this is bounced and twisted upwards and at about a 50deg angle to the left, hitting the corner of wall and ceiling. It is providing a wide, soft fill on the left side of the subject (off-side to the main light), plus a bit of front fill and catchlight. You can see the difference in this effect from the first photo above, where there is no such bounced fill .... (the small centre speck catchlights in the first image are from the built-in camera control flash).

Once again its wireless P-TTL mode, with the 2/3 ratio set on the main light and 1/3 on the fill (on-camera) light. FC of around -1.7 or so. I was controlling the main light from the camera with the camera flash compensation control, and making any needed balancing adjustments to the fill directly with the on-camera flash compensation setting. Once set though, these levels remain constant. One very helpful thing about P-TTL automatic wireless exposures is the ability to move your lights, or camera, around and it won't affect the actual exposure value, as that will be automatically adjusted to stay a constant. So I found that I could move the softbox in and out for a different effect, and change my shooting position without affecting the set flash exposure levels.

Last edited by mcgregni; 01-04-2016 at 10:38 PM.
12-14-2015, 06:52 PM   #37
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So I purchased a 560-IV and a STO-fen from B and H for a grand total of 79.99 , received it in a day ! Took some test shots in the board room today. Good results , the room has brown ceilings so the diffuser worked well.

The flash is well built for the price . Shooting in manual mode , pumping up the ISO a bit and filling the shadows with the flash will do the trick. The K30 will only set 1/160 in manual mode not the native 1/180 ttl flash sync when using on camera flash. I'm assuming one uses the flash with the internal zoom set on 105 MM when using the diffuser to get the most power into the diffuser. A little chimping required to shoot all manual but the learning experience is worth it. I plan on using the flash for some holiday snaps just to get more practice.
Overall a good investment to advance one's photo skills.

12-14-2015, 07:38 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffw Quote
The K30 will only set 1/160 in manual mode not the native 1/180 ttl flash sync when using on camera flash.
I think you need to set exposure steps to 1/3EV, not 1/2EV to access 1/180s. Top flight Pentax bodies have X-mode which automatically sets 1/180s, but I don't think this is available on the K30.

QuoteOriginally posted by jeffw Quote
I'm assuming one uses the flash with the internal zoom set on 105 MM when using the diffuser to get the most power into the diffuser.
Could be, but I've had the best results when bouncing by manually setting a wider focal length than the lens carries, diffused or not.
12-14-2015, 07:59 PM   #39
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Ah , thanks. I will try the 1/3 setting. It did seem confusing trying to get the top sync speed. And you are correct , no X sync on K30 and no manual setting on pop up flash.
12-15-2015, 02:11 AM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffw Quote
The K30 will only set 1/160 in manual mode not the native 1/180 ttl flash sync when using on camera flash.
You have been give the right hint already but actually it is the 1/2 EV setting you need in order to be able to select 1/180s as a shutter speed.

QuoteOriginally posted by jeffw Quote
I'm assuming one uses the flash with the internal zoom set on 105 MM when using the diffuser to get the most power into the diffuser.
No, use the widest setting and the flash diffuser panel, if the flash has one.

The idea of a Stofen-type diffuser is to send light everywhere and you can support that by using the widest flash output possible.

Having said that you may be able to somewhat control the ratio between light sent forward vs upwards with the zoom setting but the difference probably won't be that big.

N.B. flashes only appear to be more powerful at high zoom settings because they focus the light. They don't actually produce more light.
12-15-2015, 03:19 AM - 2 Likes   #41
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Just a quick word about on flash diffusers

1 they do just that diffuse light (stop the light firing in one direction)
2 they only work well with reflecting surfaces available
3 they are zero use outdoors

This is because light and light quality from flash is inversely proportional to the light size you can create as a source,
Bouncing light gives you a light source the same size as the bounce pattern
A diffuser can give you mutli light sources from every reflective surface giving a great natural light but you can suck the power out your flash.
Flash diffusers with the domed top can be great as you can control contrast.

Umbrellas on soft box type diffusers are key to great flash illuminated image , flash brand and protocols are only secondary and convenience features having no effect on the final result.

IMO One of the best flash primers available (bit manual flash orientated)
Strobist: Lighting 101

Flash reflectors are subject to the same issue (light source size) and are of limited use in creating a natural lit image.
12-21-2015, 01:46 PM   #42
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My boss, who's a better photog than I, quite likes is Gary Fong diffuser, I don't think you can go too wrong with one, with the proper technique.

I'm a huge fan of bounce photography in a pinch, I've gotten good results with no extra modifiers, just a P-TTL flash pointed at the ceiling or a wall. I'll have to check out those bounce modifiers.
12-21-2015, 03:47 PM   #43
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I have also had very good results from the Graslon Prodigy. It is a little like the idea of a Fong inside a softbox, because there are a multitude of reflectors inside covered by a translucent dome. The only drawback is it is a bit heavy, and it does not grip well on the original 540 FGZ. It works very well on a Metz or a Sigma.
12-22-2015, 03:27 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
It's called a 'flag'. I use a Rogue Bender one.

But its use is very different from that of a diffuser. It's to support your directional bounce flash technique.

The Gary Fong Lightsphere and Stofen (I have both) are not for bounce, they're to make a soft, very wide, very even light source that eliminates hard shadows, includes the background, and covers more people in a picture. Think a raised lampshade.

Both are handy. Fong make a snoot/grid with the same sort of flexible fixing to your speedlight.


All diffuses rely extensively on bounced light.

Sto-fen and Gary Fong needs walls for the light to bounce of just as single point bounced beam does ..... The only difference is they spread the light more to bounce off multiple surfaces creating a larger point source and hence less 'flash' look at the expense of power.

No diffuser works at all outdoor and you should do the same as me when you see it (big fat belly laugh )

Any flash technique course should and I believe does point this out as a basic ten-ate of flash use.

Flash is really easy if you remember the bigger the light source the more natural it'll look but the more power you'll need to light the subject.

Once you've got that basic fact all the rest (snoots , gels etc) is to control point sources add contrast/interest not illuminate the subject.

The reason natural light looks so good is the sun is a blxxdy bog point source and a P&S is so poor as inbuilt flash is incredibly tiny.

Bouncing light is the easiest method of increasing point size the further the initial bounce path the larger the reflection (point size) but lower the power, As classA pointed out tightening the beam by using the zoom head is a fruitless exercise as power is the same your just decreasing point size increasing the 'flash' look, may as well just not bounce so far.

If your using portable flashes this balancing act of power Vs point size is the main constraint and will define what diffuses/brollies/soft boxes are suitable for your environment.

I personally go for high number smaller size = 4+ flashes 36inch soft-boxes often using Gary Fong type diffuser or just wide angel plate to ensure flash utilizes the full box area I then use brollies for catch-lights (large group shots)

If I'm using single dual off/on flash lights then it just milky plastic to ensure max diffused bounce use to use milk bottles cut to shape but given the low cost of fitted plastic on e-bay use them now.

Last edited by awaldram; 12-22-2015 at 03:34 AM.
12-22-2015, 04:50 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by awaldram Quote
.

No diffuser works at all outdoor
I suppose ClassA broke his word not to return to this thread, so I'll do the same.

Of course they do.

See my shots in the later post, and this demo:

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