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12-28-2015, 02:05 PM   #1
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Looking to buy a flash - opinions?

I need to get a good flash for my K30.

The ones I am currently looking at are:

Pentax 540 FGZ II - on sale for $362
Pentax 360 FGZ II - on sale for $284 - how is this vs the 540 II - Is the power output the only real difference? Is the 540 worth the extra $78
Sigma EF 610 DG Super - on sale for $225

Metz 48 AF-1 or higher.

Any specific recommendations?

On a side note, my current flash is and old Nikon SB??? that I made from two broken flashes. It is fine for controlled shooting, but since it is only able to be used in manual mode on my camera it just takes too long to set it up to work for general use.

12-28-2015, 02:10 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by cyclone3d Quote
I need to get a good flash for my K30.

The ones I am currently looking at are:

Pentax 540 FGZ II - on sale for $362
Pentax 360 FGZ II - on sale for $284 - how is this vs the 540 II - Is the power output the only real difference? Is the 540 worth the extra $78
Sigma EF 610 DG Super - on sale for $225

Metz 48 AF-1 or higher.

Any specific recommendations?

On a side note, my current flash is and old Nikon SB??? that I made from two broken flashes. It is fine for controlled shooting, but since it is only able to be used in manual mode on my camera it just takes too long to set it up to work for general use.
Best bang for the buck with full compatibility. Full swivel is much more useful than more power (and mass).
12-28-2015, 02:14 PM   #3
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I use the Metz AF 58-2 for events and it very rarely misses a beat...occasionally I have had issues with PTTL and place the flash in auto mode and this sometimes gives better results...the fill flash on the unit helps also...I try and go for the most powerful flash as you can turn them down but can't go past the maximum output, and there are times when you need a bit of extra output especially outdoors in daylight.
12-28-2015, 02:22 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Best bang for the buck with full compatibility. Full swivel is much more useful than more power (and mass).
I second this opinion... besides, if more power is needed you can always move the flash a little closer using the remote control from the camera.

12-28-2015, 03:23 PM   #5
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Only drawback to the sigma 610 Super is it won't do HSS in Slave mode but it can be used as a pttl Hss controller.
12-28-2015, 04:17 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I second this opinion... besides, if more power is needed you can always move the flash a little closer using the remote control from the camera.
?? That sounds cool, could you tell us more about that ....

I'm in the power camp. The best flash results are mostly from off -camera and diffused sources, or if on-camera then bounced, ideally at quite extreme angles to simulate an off-camera look. For both of these you really need power. The AF-540FGZ goes down to -4.0 stops or 1/256th, so it can certainly do delicate as well. For this reason, the 540 model with its extra power provides the better value I feel.
12-28-2015, 04:30 PM   #7
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Ok, looked up the GN for my Nikon.. which is a SB-26. It is 36, the same as the FGZ 360 II. I think I will probably end up going with that one as I have never even used the SB-26 at 100% power.

Is there any reason whatsoever to go with the 540 II? Looks like they are identical except for the power output from what I could find.

---------- Post added 12-28-15 at 05:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
?? That sounds cool, could you tell us more about that ....

I'm in the power camp. The best flash results are mostly from off -camera and diffused sources, or if on-camera then bounced, ideally at quite extreme angles to simulate an off-camera look. For both of these you really need power. The AF-540FGZ goes down to -4.0 stops or 1/256th, so it can certainly do delicate as well. For this reason, the 540 model with its extra power provides the better value I feel.
So you replied while I was thinking about what to type.. and looking more stuff up.

I am so torn between the 360 and 540.

12-28-2015, 04:40 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
?? That sounds cool, could you tell us more about that ....

I'm in the power camp. The best flash results are mostly from off -camera and diffused sources, or if on-camera then bounced, ideally at quite extreme angles to simulate an off-camera look. For both of these you really need power. The AF-540FGZ goes down to -4.0 stops or 1/256th, so it can certainly do delicate as well. For this reason, the 540 model with its extra power provides the better value I feel.
No argument there, and I agree that more power is always a good thing... but for general purpose and most users I come across don't know how to handle flash. At the current price, I still think the 360 II is a good value for most users. I have the 540-I (first generation) that I don't use that often, and I prefer to take the 360II with me any time I need to use flash.

By the way, would be nice if you can share some photos you took so we can all learn from you... and I do like your write-up on flash.

Last edited by aleonx3; 12-28-2015 at 04:49 PM.
12-28-2015, 05:14 PM   #9
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I just wasn't sure what you were thinking about with the remote control thing ....

I guess all these flashes are great value especially discounted. Everyone has a budget of course but I don't think someone starting out should restrict themselves to a lower powered model unless the budget is tight.

I am definitely not one who's going to be teaching people about creative lighting and effects ! I want to practise and learn more about that stuff as much as anyone around here and I benefit from a lot of the experience we see coming through on various threads. I did do a sort of demo thread recently about P-TTL wireless ratios using the AF-540FGZ mk1 and mkII models with some shots of the equipment and some portrait examples .... Check it out here at PentaxUser.com .... https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/portraits-with-p-ttl-wireless-ratios-55253


Also the Flash Guide has a link in the High Speed Sync section to a similar 'tutorial' with some outdoors HSS examples.
12-28-2015, 06:51 PM   #10
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Me too, even though I have used flash for several years, sometimes I still find it challenging and hence still learning (I do mainly event photos). The most common errors that I have seen on flash photos is the "over powering effect" or dominance of the flash resulting in having a flash (as some may call it amateurish) look; not to say that there is anything wrong, and some people (mostly my Canikon user friends) take it as "the" way and accepted as is.

IMHO, the challenge for outdoor fill flash is mostly not the power but rather the flash sync speed limited and hence need to use HSS (which is not much power). To overcome the distance between the camera and the subject is to move the flash closer to the subject and use radio control from the camera. I learned this technique from an old school model photographer when I was travelling to Japan; but today, I have yet to use this as most of my event photos are from indoors. Sorry, I digress....
12-28-2015, 08:21 PM   #11
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If you don't need the power, the 360GZ II is better in not just being lighter but it recycles at half the time of it's big brother. That is a huge plus recycling at 1.5-2.5 seconds instead of 3-5 seconds. Plus the WR is a great plus on Pentax flash units.
12-28-2015, 09:00 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
If you don't need the power, the 360GZ II is better in not just being lighter but it recycles at half the time of it's big brother. That is a huge plus recycling at 1.5-2.5 seconds instead of 3-5 seconds.
Isn't that for the full recycle time (after a full power burst)? I haven't used the pentax flashes, but usually the 'big brother' flash has no problems keeping up with the weaker gun if they're both outputting the same amount of light (eg. 360gz at full power and the 540gz and 1/2 power). The big gun has a larger well and the ability to dump it all at once, it still builds up power at a similar rate.
12-28-2015, 09:54 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Isn't that for the full recycle time (after a full power burst)? I haven't used the pentax flashes, but usually the 'big brother' flash has no problems keeping up with the weaker gun if they're both outputting the same amount of light (eg. 360gz at full power and the 540gz and 1/2 power). The big gun has a larger well and the ability to dump it all at once, it still builds up power at a similar rate.
Yes, the 2.5 seconds max of the 360 and the 5 second max of the 540 is for full power, but the OP stated in #7 they never used the equivalent of the 360 at 100%, so why spend more for more power they won't need that recycles slower? I can't explain why the 360 recycles faster at 1.5s vs. the 540's 3s, other than the capacitor must be larger or less efficient on the bigger unit when less power is needed.

Can you think of why the minimum recycle time is half the time on the 360? Or why it's double on the 540 at 5s vs. 2.5s even though the GN is not double?
12-28-2015, 10:09 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Isn't that for the full recycle time (after a full power burst)? I haven't used the pentax flashes, but usually the 'big brother' flash has no problems keeping up with the weaker gun if they're both outputting the same amount of light (eg. 360gz at full power and the 540gz and 1/2 power). The big gun has a larger well and the ability to dump it all at once, it still builds up power at a similar rate.
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Yes, the 2.5 seconds max of the 360 and the 5 second max of the 540 is for full power, but the OP stated in #7 they never used the equivalent of the 360 at 100%, so why spend more for more power they won't need that recycles slower? I can't explain why the 360 recycles faster at 1.5s vs. the 540's 3s, other than the capacitor must be larger or less efficient on the bigger unit when less power is needed.

Can you think of why the minimum recycle time is half the time on the 360? Or why it's double on the 540 at 5s vs. 2.5s even though the GN is not double?
I was looking at recycle time as well... I will try to look into it more, but I am pretty sure the recycle time is rated for full power.

And, the reason it would take twice as long for full power is because of diminishing returns. A bigger capacitor of the same type is not going to charge at the same rate as a smaller capacitor of the same type. It might up to a certain point, but the higher the charge, the more of a time curve you are going to see.

They are also rated in steps.. so 1/256 on the 360 is going to be a lot less than 1/256 on the 540.

---------- Post added 12-29-15 at 12:07 AM ----------

Ok, so it looks like on a K-3 and a 360 at 1/8, you can get every shot to flash.

With a 540, you have to bump it to 1/16 to get every shot to flash.


But the 540 is a lot more powerful than the 360.. so.. is 1/8 on the 360 equal or less than 1/16 on the 540?
12-29-2015, 06:39 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by cyclone3d Quote
But the 540 is a lot more powerful than the 360.. so.. is 1/8 on the 360 equal or less than 1/16 on the 540?
Depending on the zoom settings, the 540@1/16 puts out a smidgeon more light than the 360@1/8th, but it's close enough to call it equal. See page 79 of their combined manual for guide numbers at various settings:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/acc_st_af360fg2.pdf

Lower power settings on a given flash have an advantage that you can usually fire more times before it needs to recharge. It looks like the video showed this with the 360@1/4 power and the 540@1/8 power, the 540 was able to fire a couple in rapid succession, the 360 missed the second shot (a k-3 is hard to keep up with).

For a given flash, lower power settings have shorter t.1 times (essentially the flash duration, the shorter it is the better it is at freezing motion), but I'm not sure how these two flashes will compare directly. It wouldn't matter for most use, but if you run across measured t.1 times during your investigations, that may be handy to know.
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