Looking for my first real flash

Zephos · 01-16-2016, 10:24 AM

I am looking for a cheap flash to use with my K-50. I'm not sure if this is realistic considering the features I want, but I don't want to spend more than $50. I already have the AF200FG but I want something that will tilt and swivel and that recharges faster.

I think I want p-ttl, but I am so dreadfully confused about the whole p-ttl vs ttl thing that I can't trust myself. As I understand it, TTL/ DOES work with my camera but only when my camera is in manual mode, or is it when the flash is in manual mode? I've never used one before so I don't now what modes they have.

I want one that swivels and tilts.

I'd like one with a decent refresh rate.

Am I out of my mind or is there something out there?

**Alex645** · 01-16-2016, 12:24 PM

The least expensive flash that fits your description is made by Vivitar for $70:
Vivitar DF-293 TTL AF Flash for Pentax Cameras VIVDF293P B&H

If this is for occasional use, and not for demanding conditions, then it's probably good enough. Decades ago, Vivitar and Sunpak were in my budget and so I always used them. The recycle time with this unit is about 7 seconds with alkaline AAs. Usually if you use rechargeable batteries, the flash will recycle faster, but you'll get less discharges, so you will want backups.

However, I've been let down by 'cheap' flash units enough, that now when I am depending on the flash, I've saved up for better units. The least expensive one I'd recommend is this Metz for $220: Metz mecablitz 44 AF-1 digital Flash for Pentax MZ 44317PS B&H

Metz has made professional-grade flash units since the beginning of time, and this one recycles in a max of 4 seconds (full discharge, max power, alkalines).
Metz mecablitz 44 AF-1 digital Flash for Pentax MZ 44317PS B&H

And then my top choice would be a Pentax flash unit like the AF360FGZ II. It's on sale right now for $343:
Pentax AF360FGZ II Flash 30438 B&H Photo Video

This is the low-end Pentax flash unit, and there are more powerful ones, but the main advantage of the Pentax flash is that like your camera, it's WR and has a max recycle time of 2.5 seconds.

Many on this forum like the bigger sibling Pentax AF540FGZ II and now that it is almost 50% off at $369, that's really a good value:
Pentax AF540FGZ II Flash 30456 B&H Photo Video

So if you need something NOW, I'd go for the Vivitar, but know that you'll outgrow it sooner than later. The Metz is the best real-deal, but won't have WR nor the faster recycle time you want. Personally, I like the smaller Pentax flash unit because of it's compromise of size, power, features, and speed.

Zephos · 01-16-2016, 01:10 PM

Thanks. I think I will have to hold off on getting a flash for now. I have a few questions below.

Are there any non - PTTL flashes that fit my other requirements?

Will a TTL flash work with my K-50? I have seen conflicting info on that one.

ppohja · 01-16-2016, 01:15 PM

At that price range, I think you need to choose between swivel and P-TTL.

Pentax's old TTL does not function with your K-50. Flashes such as AF280T can swivel and be used automatically in the auto thyristor mode or in full manual - but it does not measure the light through the lens. In some occasions, that can be a boon, as there is no preflash.

Zephos · 01-16-2016, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by ppohja

At that price range, I think you need to choose between swivel and P-TTL.

Pentax's old TTL does not function with your K-50. Flashes such as AF280T can swivel and be used automatically in the auto thyristor mode or in full manual - but it does not measure the light through the lens. In some occasions, that can be a boon, as there is no preflash.

What is Auto Thyristor mode? Thanks.

ppohja · 01-16-2016, 01:52 PM

It's the mode where the flash works autonomously - it's got its own light measurement hardware (thyristor) that is used to control the flash amount.

See e.g. Strobist: QA: How to Shoot Events Without TTL Flash

Zephos · 01-16-2016, 01:53 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Zephos

What is Auto Thyristor mode? Thanks.

Nevermind I researched it. Yeah I think I will forget the PTTL and go with a swivel.

WaxPhotographic · 01-27-2016, 12:07 AM

Hello again. In addition to P-TTL flashes there are modern fully manual flashes, such as the Yongnuo 560 series. These do not communicate at all with the camera, they just fire when the center pin hotshoe contact is triggered at shutter speeds 1/180th of a second or slower (sync speed). Honestly a cheap p-ttl flash isn't worth the money... as they usually offer little to no manual controls which make them nearly useless off camera. Which is what you should be working towards, really. Direct flash (on camera) just tends not to be very flattering. That site ppohja linked to ( strobist.blogspot.com ) is all about off camera flash (OCF), it's basically the go-to resource for learning how to do it. I have a couple YN-560IVs and a trigger. I used them + 2x light stand/2x swivel/umbrella & background to get this shot of my cousin's sons: http://i.imgur.com/4OwHQaQ.jpg The YN-560IV retails for $69 at B&H with free shipping. It has a wireless transciever built in. A pair of triggers costs $29 or for $45 you can get the YN-560TX remote power & zoom control lcd trigger. I know that is a lot of kit, but if you get just 1 manual flash it's something you can build on. In the meantime, you could stick to on-camera bounce flash (off of ceilings/walls) using the tilt & swivel. That tends to be the most flattering on-camera method. Sure, you give up p-ttl and things like second curtain sync with a manual flash, but you gain a lot of control. One thing though - $69 is still pretty cheap for a flash, so you want to get them from a reputable retailer like B&H, which has a good return policy. I've heard of people getting duds, and having to ship them back to hong kong for repair/replacement because they bought directly from yongnuo's ebay store. Oh, and the previous version, the 560III is 5 bucks cheaper at 64 dollars from B&H, and the only difference is it just has a reciever built in instead of a transciever. So basically it can be triggered by flash triggers, but cannot itself trigger other flashes/triggers. Otherwise, they are functionally the same flash.

ppohja · 01-27-2016, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by Zephos

Nevermind I researched it. Yeah I think I will forget the PTTL and go with a swivel.

Yeah, that's also what I did.. although during the years have gathered two P-TTL capable units, I'm finding myself using the manual mode with the swiveling ability being more important.

Definitely a better route for learning!

mcgregni · 01-27-2016, 02:47 AM

There's stuff to learn about both manual flash exposures as well as automatic, and I'd argue that for real versatility you'd want to know how both work to get the best out of flash photography.

The P-TTL vs manual question can only be answered by specifically looking at the shooting situation, location, static or dynamic nature of subjects, consistency of lighting etc , as well as the possibilities for setting up off -camera flashes and softboxes etc. In reality, many situations are not going to allow for this, and you'll need to be moving around with changing flash to subject distances. Then on-camera automatic flash comes into its own, not as direct light, but sympathetically bounced to simulate large off -camera light sources. Then you need full tilt and swivel, good automatic control and loads of power.

**goatsNdonkey** · 01-28-2016, 10:50 AM

There are swivel adapters that can slide into the hotshoe and that have a flash shoe on top of them, though often that means that the flash attached to the adapter must connect to the camera with a pc-cord. This severs the connections for a dedicated flash meaning that it would be better to use a manual or auto-thyristor flash on them. There are also handle brackets with hot or not shoes on them, some with swivel capability.

**brightseal** · 05-31-2017, 08:05 PM

Are there any pros to using Legacy flashes on DSLRs?

mcgregni · 06-01-2017, 12:10 AM

I was inspired recently, by a post on here and Stevebrot's Review (thanks Steve) to get out my old, mint condition, AF280T ....a film era TTL / Auto/2-level manual flash.

The Auto modes work very well indeed, including bounced. So long as I stick to the distance guidelines in the manual and use the correct green or red mode, then I get excellent automatic exposures every time. It's a fun, more physical way of working, setting the ISO on the flash and reading off the aperture, then setting it on the camera (even more fun doing that with an M series lens!) ....a nice hands on way to shoot.

I have noticed that I have to set a cooler white balance when using the AF280T, as it's light is warmer than my modern flashes ..... But I also read on here that this happens naturally to very old flashes. ..... How lucky we are now that the solution is a simple tweak to the camera WB fine tuning!

---------- Post added 01-06-17 at 07:18 ----------

All of my modern flashes (Pentax and Cactus) have optical slave modes, so I plan to try using the AF280T as a trigger on the camera, firing 3 slaves ......I think if I use the low power manual setting and point the head away from the subject I wouldn't get any unwanted light spill.

ddharriman · 06-01-2017, 01:15 PM

Hi Zephos

Why not consider the Yongnuo YN585EX? – it has TTL, manual, fully compatible with Pentax wireless system, etc…
Now in amazon.com for USD 76,00 – bought mine for 93 euros in Amazon.es and it take one week to arrive.

I’m not a big (even regular) flash user, but for the casual user (but probably will satisfy the professional / heavy user too), or someone who is trying the Pentax flash system, I think it’s great!

Best regards,

Angel Perez · 06-02-2017, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Zephos

I am looking for a cheap flash to use with my K-50. I'm not sure if this is realistic considering the features I want, but I don't want to spend more than $50. I already have the AF200FG but I want something that will tilt and swivel and that recharges faster.

I think I want p-ttl, but I am so dreadfully confused about the whole p-ttl vs ttl thing that I can't trust myself. As I understand it, TTL/ DOES work with my camera but only when my camera is in manual mode, or is it when the flash is in manual mode? I've never used one before so I don't now what modes they have.

I want one that swivels and tilts.

I'd like one with a decent refresh rate.

Am I out of my mind or is there something out there?

Zephos,

You have some good advice here. For the price and the quality it is hard to beat the Yongnuo flashes. The question you really need to ask is "What is a good flash for _____________?"(the type of photography you want to make).

To be very honest PTTL is very convenient, but if you really want to learn how to use a flash, a manual flash is the way to go. It doesn't have too long of a learning curve and the more you use it the easier it will be. I say look at the Yongnuo 660 OR 560iV. If you say you are doing event photograhy then consider the 585ex as it has pttl. If you are planning on doing portraits headshots, studio work, etc. I would say stay on manual. For events i shoot manual too, but i know a lot of folks use pttl. I say learn the camera and you decide how you want the picture to come out rather than the camera making the decisions. I shot with a manual flash for two years and I finally bought a pttl flash. I returned it because i found out I was a control freak and found the camera making the decisions too frustrating. Know if you aren't comfortable with the manual mode, i recommend you learn it. If you don't want to learn, then I recommend using pttl. There are a few good tutorilas from Adorama and B&H on youtube that csn help you learn how to use flash.

Good luck, and let us know what you decided to buy.

01-16-2016, 10:24 AM	#1
Zephos Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Albums Posts: 341	Looking for my first real flash I am looking for a cheap flash to use with my K-50. I'm not sure if this is realistic considering the features I want, but I don't want to spend more than $50. I already have the AF200FG but I want something that will tilt and swivel and that recharges faster. I think I want p-ttl, but I am so dreadfully confused about the whole p-ttl vs ttl thing that I can't trust myself. As I understand it, TTL/ DOES work with my camera but only when my camera is in manual mode, or is it when the flash is in manual mode? I've never used one before so I don't now what modes they have. I want one that swivels and tilts. I'd like one with a decent refresh rate. Am I out of my mind or is there something out there?

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01-16-2016, 12:24 PM	#2
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	The least expensive flash that fits your description is made by Vivitar for $70: Vivitar DF-293 TTL AF Flash for Pentax Cameras VIVDF293P B&H If this is for occasional use, and not for demanding conditions, then it's probably good enough. Decades ago, Vivitar and Sunpak were in my budget and so I always used them. The recycle time with this unit is about 7 seconds with alkaline AAs. Usually if you use rechargeable batteries, the flash will recycle faster, but you'll get less discharges, so you will want backups. However, I've been let down by 'cheap' flash units enough, that now when I am depending on the flash, I've saved up for better units. The least expensive one I'd recommend is this Metz for $220: Metz mecablitz 44 AF-1 digital Flash for Pentax MZ 44317PS B&H Metz has made professional-grade flash units since the beginning of time, and this one recycles in a max of 4 seconds (full discharge, max power, alkalines). Metz mecablitz 44 AF-1 digital Flash for Pentax MZ 44317PS B&H And then my top choice would be a Pentax flash unit like the AF360FGZ II. It's on sale right now for $343: Pentax AF360FGZ II Flash 30438 B&H Photo Video This is the low-end Pentax flash unit, and there are more powerful ones, but the main advantage of the Pentax flash is that like your camera, it's WR and has a max recycle time of 2.5 seconds. Many on this forum like the bigger sibling Pentax AF540FGZ II and now that it is almost 50% off at $369, that's really a good value: Pentax AF540FGZ II Flash 30456 B&H Photo Video So if you need something NOW, I'd go for the Vivitar, but know that you'll outgrow it sooner than later. The Metz is the best real-deal, but won't have WR nor the faster recycle time you want. Personally, I like the smaller Pentax flash unit because of it's compromise of size, power, features, and speed.

01-16-2016, 01:10 PM	#3
Zephos Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Albums Posts: 341 Original Poster	Thanks. I think I will have to hold off on getting a flash for now. I have a few questions below. Are there any non - PTTL flashes that fit my other requirements? Will a TTL flash work with my K-50? I have seen conflicting info on that one.

01-16-2016, 01:15 PM	#4
ppohja Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 194	At that price range, I think you need to choose between swivel and P-TTL. Pentax's old TTL does not function with your K-50. Flashes such as AF280T can swivel and be used automatically in the auto thyristor mode or in full manual - but it does not measure the light through the lens. In some occasions, that can be a boon, as there is no preflash.

01-16-2016, 01:43 PM	#5
Zephos Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Albums Posts: 341 Original Poster	Originally posted by ppohja At that price range, I think you need to choose between swivel and P-TTL. Pentax's old TTL does not function with your K-50. Flashes such as AF280T can swivel and be used automatically in the auto thyristor mode or in full manual - but it does not measure the light through the lens. In some occasions, that can be a boon, as there is no preflash. What is Auto Thyristor mode? Thanks.

01-16-2016, 01:52 PM	#6
ppohja Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 194	It's the mode where the flash works autonomously - it's got its own light measurement hardware (thyristor) that is used to control the flash amount. See e.g. Strobist: QA: How to Shoot Events Without TTL Flash

01-16-2016, 01:53 PM - 1 Like	#7
Zephos Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Albums Posts: 341 Original Poster	Originally posted by Zephos What is Auto Thyristor mode? Thanks. Nevermind I researched it. Yeah I think I will forget the PTTL and go with a swivel.

01-27-2016, 12:07 AM	#8
WaxPhotographic Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 41	Hello again. In addition to P-TTL flashes there are modern fully manual flashes, such as the Yongnuo 560 series. These do not communicate at all with the camera, they just fire when the center pin hotshoe contact is triggered at shutter speeds 1/180th of a second or slower (sync speed). Honestly a cheap p-ttl flash isn't worth the money... as they usually offer little to no manual controls which make them nearly useless off camera. Which is what you should be working towards, really. Direct flash (on camera) just tends not to be very flattering. That site ppohja linked to ( strobist.blogspot.com ) is all about off camera flash (OCF), it's basically the go-to resource for learning how to do it. I have a couple YN-560IVs and a trigger. I used them + 2x light stand/2x swivel/umbrella & background to get this shot of my cousin's sons: http://i.imgur.com/4OwHQaQ.jpg The YN-560IV retails for $69 at B&H with free shipping. It has a wireless transciever built in. A pair of triggers costs $29 or for $45 you can get the YN-560TX remote power & zoom control lcd trigger. I know that is a lot of kit, but if you get just 1 manual flash it's something you can build on. In the meantime, you could stick to on-camera bounce flash (off of ceilings/walls) using the tilt & swivel. That tends to be the most flattering on-camera method. Sure, you give up p-ttl and things like second curtain sync with a manual flash, but you gain a lot of control. One thing though - $69 is still pretty cheap for a flash, so you want to get them from a reputable retailer like B&H, which has a good return policy. I've heard of people getting duds, and having to ship them back to hong kong for repair/replacement because they bought directly from yongnuo's ebay store. Oh, and the previous version, the 560III is 5 bucks cheaper at 64 dollars from B&H, and the only difference is it just has a reciever built in instead of a transciever. So basically it can be triggered by flash triggers, but cannot itself trigger other flashes/triggers. Otherwise, they are functionally the same flash.

01-27-2016, 01:46 AM	#9
ppohja Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 194	Originally posted by Zephos Nevermind I researched it. Yeah I think I will forget the PTTL and go with a swivel. Yeah, that's also what I did.. although during the years have gathered two P-TTL capable units, I'm finding myself using the manual mode with the swiveling ability being more important. Definitely a better route for learning!

01-27-2016, 02:47 AM	#10
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	There's stuff to learn about both manual flash exposures as well as automatic, and I'd argue that for real versatility you'd want to know how both work to get the best out of flash photography. The P-TTL vs manual question can only be answered by specifically looking at the shooting situation, location, static or dynamic nature of subjects, consistency of lighting etc , as well as the possibilities for setting up off -camera flashes and softboxes etc. In reality, many situations are not going to allow for this, and you'll need to be moving around with changing flash to subject distances. Then on-camera automatic flash comes into its own, not as direct light, but sympathetically bounced to simulate large off -camera light sources. Then you need full tilt and swivel, good automatic control and loads of power.

01-28-2016, 10:50 AM	#11
goatsNdonkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Fulton County, Illinois Posts: 3,727	There are swivel adapters that can slide into the hotshoe and that have a flash shoe on top of them, though often that means that the flash attached to the adapter must connect to the camera with a pc-cord. This severs the connections for a dedicated flash meaning that it would be better to use a manual or auto-thyristor flash on them. There are also handle brackets with hot or not shoes on them, some with swivel capability.

05-31-2017, 08:05 PM	#12
brightseal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 629	Are there any pros to using Legacy flashes on DSLRs?

06-01-2017, 12:10 AM	#13
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	I was inspired recently, by a post on here and Stevebrot's Review (thanks Steve) to get out my old, mint condition, AF280T ....a film era TTL / Auto/2-level manual flash. The Auto modes work very well indeed, including bounced. So long as I stick to the distance guidelines in the manual and use the correct green or red mode, then I get excellent automatic exposures every time. It's a fun, more physical way of working, setting the ISO on the flash and reading off the aperture, then setting it on the camera (even more fun doing that with an M series lens!) ....a nice hands on way to shoot. I have noticed that I have to set a cooler white balance when using the AF280T, as it's light is warmer than my modern flashes ..... But I also read on here that this happens naturally to very old flashes. ..... How lucky we are now that the solution is a simple tweak to the camera WB fine tuning! ---------- Post added 01-06-17 at 07:18 ---------- All of my modern flashes (Pentax and Cactus) have optical slave modes, so I plan to try using the AF280T as a trigger on the camera, firing 3 slaves ......I think if I use the low power manual setting and point the head away from the subject I wouldn't get any unwanted light spill.

06-01-2017, 01:15 PM	#14
ddharriman Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 345	Hi Zephos Why not consider the Yongnuo YN585EX? – it has TTL, manual, fully compatible with Pentax wireless system, etc… Now in amazon.com for USD 76,00 – bought mine for 93 euros in Amazon.es and it take one week to arrive. I’m not a big (even regular) flash user, but for the casual user (but probably will satisfy the professional / heavy user too), or someone who is trying the Pentax flash system, I think it’s great! Best regards,

06-02-2017, 01:34 PM	#15
Angel Perez Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 158	Originally posted by Zephos I am looking for a cheap flash to use with my K-50. I'm not sure if this is realistic considering the features I want, but I don't want to spend more than $50. I already have the AF200FG but I want something that will tilt and swivel and that recharges faster. I think I want p-ttl, but I am so dreadfully confused about the whole p-ttl vs ttl thing that I can't trust myself. As I understand it, TTL/ DOES work with my camera but only when my camera is in manual mode, or is it when the flash is in manual mode? I've never used one before so I don't now what modes they have. I want one that swivels and tilts. I'd like one with a decent refresh rate. Am I out of my mind or is there something out there? Zephos, You have some good advice here. For the price and the quality it is hard to beat the Yongnuo flashes. The question you really need to ask is "What is a good flash for _____________?"(the type of photography you want to make). To be very honest PTTL is very convenient, but if you really want to learn how to use a flash, a manual flash is the way to go. It doesn't have too long of a learning curve and the more you use it the easier it will be. I say look at the Yongnuo 660 OR 560iV. If you say you are doing event photograhy then consider the 585ex as it has pttl. If you are planning on doing portraits headshots, studio work, etc. I would say stay on manual. For events i shoot manual too, but i know a lot of folks use pttl. I say learn the camera and you decide how you want the picture to come out rather than the camera making the decisions. I shot with a manual flash for two years and I finally bought a pttl flash. I returned it because i found out I was a control freak and found the camera making the decisions too frustrating. Know if you aren't comfortable with the manual mode, i recommend you learn it. If you don't want to learn, then I recommend using pttl. There are a few good tutorilas from Adorama and B&H on youtube that csn help you learn how to use flash. Good luck, and let us know what you decided to buy.