[trishytee]

"optically" means that the second (slave) flash is triggered by the light emitted from the first flash, not via radio signals (how the acons communicate).


You do need a slave mode which ignores the PTTL preflash or the second flash fires too early. I do not know if the Yongnuo is capable of that.


I do suggest you use a yellow/orrange/red gel filter on your flashes to match the light color of the sunset. The cold blueish flashlight and the reddish sunlight dont match, so faces look pale if you correct White Balance for the ambient light.

---------- Post added 17th May 2016 at 12:44 ----------

BTW: A Workaround here would be to simply use an ND filter on the lens to get into the 1/180 range. This way flashes could be used in normal mode.

The ND filter sounds like a jolly good solution.

[mcgregni]

Ok, that's good, so we know exactly what gear you've got now. Good points above also, including about the gel which would help a lot.

It does seem that you are working with the flashes fairly nearby, and so optical triggering shouldn't be a problem. If you manage with one off-camera flash then you can get another Pentax flash, or perhaps consider the Cactus RF60 as an economical manual option. As Class A said at the start, it has a 'proper' HSS mode and can be triggered as an optical slave with the correct delay programmed.

Check out my demo thread 'Pentax and Cactus Multi Flash HSS...' to see how it can all work together.

[trishytee]

"optically" means that the second (slave) flash is triggered by the light emitted from the first flash, not via radio signals (how the acons communicate).


You do need a slave mode which ignores the PTTL preflash or the second flash fires too early. I do not know if the Yongnuo is capable of that.


I do suggest you use a yellow/orrange/red gel filter on your flashes to match the light color of the sunset. The cold blueish flashlight and the reddish sunlight dont match, so faces look pale if you correct White Balance for the ambient light.

---------- Post added 17th May 2016 at 12:44 ----------

BTW: A Workaround here would be to simply use an ND filter on the lens to get into the 1/180 range. This way flashes could be used in normal mode.

I thought I answered this. Thanks for the advice on ND Beholder and might try that if all else fails. What I want to do seems so simple but I'm obviously stuffing something up. I did go to have a lesson with the fellow I bought the soft boxes from, as he is an very good off camera photographer and runs classes. We began a one on one, but I couldn't get the Acon to work (my fault as there are steps to follow). When I said I would have only one radio and one slave, he got a bit exasperated, and I got the Cannon spiel about HSS and triggers all compatible blah blah. So I slunk home with the soft boxes and at this stage I seem to be stuffing things up in a big way. I shall take my long suffering dog to the beach near sunset tomorrow, and bribe him with treats and see if I can get this sorted. Now unsure whether to try the soft boxes, or go for a shoot through umbrella.

[mcgregni]

The softbox is better outdoors as there's more light spill with umbrellas, and especially with HSS you'll lose more power that way. The softbox is more controllable, both it's lighting effect and stability in wind.

I'd forget about beaches and dogs for now and just concentrate quietly at home in getting the technicalities sorted and getting the equipment needed. Don't get hung up about Canon .... The 'native' proprietary brand equipment needed for radio HSS with multiple flashes on Canon is VERY expensive .... Not at all comparable to your budget requirements. Mostly only pros can afford all that stuff.

It seems like you need another HSS capable flash anyway .... You have to have one on the camera hotshoe to get a trigger signal beyond 180/th sec. Your Pentax unit can do that, then you either get another Dedicated type or. something like the Cactus RF60 ..... Radio triggering for now may be one extra complication too far ..... ?

[beholder3]

It seems like you need another HSS capable flash anyway .... You have to have one on the camera hotshoe to get a trigger signal beyond 180/th sec.

Using the Acons you just need a single HSS capable flash on the receiver (not on the camera).

The acons are really "just" an PTTL cable without a cable.

For the scenario described here (with rather low light and flashes facing each other), the easiest way really is the ND filter approach.

And yes, all this can be tried at home technically.

[mcgregni]

Yes, the Acons have brought their fair share of confusion to the HSS off-camera table ! Sorry I was moving over to an optical solution really as being easier. I do always feel so despondent when the suggestion comes down to ND filters ...

[CarlJF]

For the scenario described here (with rather low light and flashes facing each other), the easiest way really is the ND filter approach.

This is totally true, and is the way many photographers will go. You don't have to worry about the technical details of HSS, at sync speed the flashes will be able to fire at full power (and yes, the 360 with alight modifier will need to put out everything it can deliver to overpower the sun, even it's going down!), and you can just use cheap manual radio triggers (like NPT-04, which are available for a few 10$ a set) and not worry about compatibility issues or feature support. Also note that this kind of setup will work the same with any brand of cameras or flashes, including studio strobes (if you wish to go that way one day), which are often use in this kind of situation.

Also note that the ND filter road will also gives you more latitude with your aperture to get a shallower DOF. A non negligeable side benefit!

[mcgregni]

Sigh. ..... But HSS is, well, just more cool!

[CarlJF]

Sigh. ..... But HSS is, well, just more cool!

Yep! Agree! But in the specific situation mentioned is this thread, with one flash not supporting HSS and only one pair of RF triggers, I'm not sure the HSS way is the easiest one...

As an aside, I use the 360 a lot (owns two of them and yes, the battery door is broken on one and barely hold on the other) and find that HSS with this flash is mostly useful for fill light. In HSS mode, competing with direct sunlight, it just isn't powerful enough to be used as key light, even more so with a light modifier. However, it works fine at sync speed, but may need to be set at full power with a light modifier and not too far from the subject.

[trishytee]

Thanks everyone. I really do want to avoid the ND if possible due to focusing probs, as I find it hard to find my subject with that on. If I have just me at a waterfall or some such it's not a problem as I have time to squint and test, but with a bride and groom I want to be spot on. I think the Yongnuo is firing ok. as it is happily popping away when the Pentax flash fires. (I cant use the soft box on this one as it can't see the flash)
I don't know if I am getting enough ummph. I just don't seem to be able to keep detail in the sky? I have a couple of images here (one I stole and the bride and groom are about the same age as my couple and similar surroundings}. This is what I am hoping to achieve.
I have also some I took with my mate Ted. I am just not succeeding. I know this is not a 'how to site' but you all seem to know what you are doing., so I am so grateful you are out there.
8139 is the sky with some detail (bright sun on the other side) 8135 blown out 1/640 f2.8, 8123 my setup 2.8 1/1000, 8 073 Ted ok but no detail in sky

[RAART]

details in the sky... Let's say there are different methods to achieve this. I stopped doing weddings long time ago but to get that style of picture I always was using M (manual) mode on camera and exposed for the highlights, speak sky and then with flash just lit the subject. Just remember that you will need a powerful flash unit if you want to use it during the day under the bright sun or you have to place the flash close by. I usually used one flash only with very good results. If I used light modifier than I used studio strobe with battery attached. I always used the spot metering or centre averaged but for great consistency on the sky just the centre spot metering. Now a days if I like to do same style photograph I will use Aperture Priority mode and meter for sky and than lit with one bare flash (no modifier) the subject. If I am taking the subject into shadows or under the trees than I will use modifier and at that point maybe two flashes to get some special effects like back lit subject slightly or similar.

if you like to practice now, put the K-3 in AV mode mount your flash (without modifier first) , change the metering (don't have the camera with me now but the button should be next to the play on the left side, same as delete, press and hold it while with turning wheel you change the mode) to centre metering only point the camera into sky half press the shutter button and then without moving camera from the metered spot press AE-L button on your right upper side. This will lock the exposure and through the viewfinder you will see on the bottom right a * symbol lit, then recompose and let the auto focus do the trick and press the shutter. I hope that P-TTL will work the magic for you but I always preferred flash on manual mode where I can control the output according to the distance from subject. Try first with one flash... the second you can always add later.

For your question in regards of that 560 cannot see the other one you just need to put that flash slightly in front of the other one and turn the lower part towards the firing flash and the flash head towards the subject. It will fire...

[mcgregni]

However you meter you need a way to assess the sky exposure. I use manual camera mode and check the histogram ...a white sky like this can have a little bit of clipping on the right. Your scene here is high contrast, so you will get dark areas in the shade ... This won't be a problem on a low-light beach though.

Your exposures are just too long for the sky .... Use the histogram and dial in a faster 'speed' until you see that clipping go down. Did you see my 'teddy HSS' demo thread? It's got full settings and process information including about balancing ambient and flash exposures.

Your softbox and flash are quite small and far away in relation to the subject, so the light effect will be quite hard. Ideally a larger softbox closer will give that nice soft directional light we all strive for.

[beholder3]

Hm.

I usually like the quick and easy approach:

1. Briefly point the lens at the sky/sunset and press the "*" button to freeze metering for a couple of seconds (configurable)
2. Point the lens at the subject and focus normally
3. Shoot

This should work best with center weighed metering configured.



Beware that during normal daylight the resulting underexposure might be way stronger than that one at sundown. This can either be adjusted via exposure compensation or (that is how I do it) by pointing the camera not fully up in the sky but just lifting it a little over the horizon (this way part of the lower image is still dark and the average subject brightness is better/lower).

[clackers]

Thanks everyone. I really do want to avoid the ND if possible due to focusing probs, as I find it hard to find my subject with that on.

You can focus first without the filter, lock it, put it on, then take the shot, just like you would a 30 second waterfall shot in daylight.

I just don't seem to be able to keep detail in the sky?

Yoi can get the sky's exposure right before the people walk into the scene. Then, lock that (ambient) exposure and adjust the P-TTL or Manual power levels to get the couple's light levels right.

[mcgregni]

I would also address the ambient and flash exposures individually. I agree with Clackers that the background ambient can be set and fixed before you even worry about the flash on the subjects. Even though generally Av mode is not compatible with HSS, I have read that the AE lock will allow an exposure shorter than max Sync' in Av mode , even with flash .... So if that works for you, that's fine. I'd suggest that approach would be suited to situations where things are happening quickly and the light or positioning of things is changing. The manual mode approach is suited to a longer, more static session where you want to take a number of frames with the same lighting.