[CarlJF]

I think the Yongnuo is firing ok. as it is happily popping away when the Pentax flash fires.

Sure, it will fire, but not in HSS mode. And the results will be unpredictable at best...

That said, to achieve what you want, I usually proceed about the same way as others suggested above.

1) Put the camera in M.
2) Set the speed on sync speed.
3) Adjust the aperture to get the ambient exposure you want. For dramatic sky, I usually underexpose by 0.5 to 1 stop.
4) If you want a larger aperture, add ND filters.
5) Take the shots with the flash.

If you want to use HSS mode, you omit steps 2 and 4, but you must be sure that all your flashes could be triggered in HSS and that they provide enough light. If your subject always look underexposed, it's probably because the flashes lack power to achieve what you want.

As Clackers mentioned, you should think of it like you were taking two pictures in one. First you adjust your exposure for ambient light, and once it is set, you then adjust your flash exposure for your subject, either by using flash compensation in TTL mode or power ratio in manual mode.

[CarlJF]

BTW, you can look at this article, which explains quite well how to achieve what, I think, you're trying to do. You can also find plenty of articles on the subject on the same website... Lots of information there...

[trishytee]

I would also address the ambient and flash exposures individually. I agree with Clackers that the background ambient can be set and fixed before you even worry about the flash on the subjects. Even though generally Av mode is not compatible with HSS, I have read that the AE lock will allow an exposure shorter than max Sync' in Av mode , even with flash .... So if that works for you, that's fine. I'd suggest that approach would be suited to situations where things are happening quickly and the light or positioning of things is changing. The manual mode approach is suited to a longer, more static session where you want to take a number of frames with the same lighting.

Thanks so much every one, it is great to get all this feed back. I did most of the above, except I had it on spot metering but will change that to center metering tomorrow. I took a mad friend down tonight, no sunset but quite a moody sky. I used the slave without the soft box as no matter where I put it, the optical a part is hidden by the soft box. I shall now try an umbrella. I would like to have a second receiver but that would mean a new flash as well, and that is not an option right now. So here is what I did this evening, and it seems the lights might be a tad too close. Anyway I would love your input. These have been only cropped, no adjustments in PS

[RAART]

No hard feelings but this is bad...

This is how you mount the flash in your softbox. Under red cover on the front is optical sensor and this should face your firing main flash in order to trigger.

---

Last edited by RAART; 05-19-2016 at 12:08 AM.

[mcgregni]

Trishytee, the main thing is that you're getting the flashes firing and you've reduced the ambient exposure as you wanted. I'd really be looking for a lighting balance that was much closer between the ambient and flash, but you can experiment now for any type of effect.

Your softbox is too small to create nice light in this scenario. It's too far away in relation to the subject size to create soft light. You need I think a minimum of about 60x60 cm size box, and placed closer, for good light in this situation. As I said earlier, an umbrella will spread light too widely and lose you valuable power and be less controllable.

[RAART]

also read this article that I found on the net after 1 minute google search...

Using Off Camera Lighting in Portrait Photography | The F/Stop Spot

[CarlJF]

...Anyway I would love your input. These have been only cropped, no adjustments in PS

With these shots, why have you use HSS ? Instead of 1/350, f2.8, ISO400, you could easily have used 1/80, f2.8, ISO100 to get below sync speed (1/180 I guess on the K3) and makes everything better and easier. Your subject will look sharper because the very short flash duration at sync speed works much better at freezing movement than 1/350 in HSS. The lower ISO will help with details and color rendition. Your flash will give you significantly more light, thus giving you more latitude in what you can do (like using a light modifier). And both flashes could be used simultaneously, optical triggering of the YN working just fine in standard (non-HSS) flash mode, so no need for an additional trigger...

If you want to make your life easier with what you have on hand, just stick with sync speed or slower and don't go into HSS territory for now. Although, admitedly, it looks old school and not as cool as using a high tech feature. But it works easily, predicably and reliably...

Althoug it sounds boring, sync speed is kind of a cornerstone of flash photography. It should always be the first step from where you go toward what you want. And only go into HSS territory if absolutely needed and, obviously, if you have the right equipment to do it.

[mcgregni]

I do enjoy my HSS, but agreed that it's only needed when you're already 'up against the buffers' with every other setting ....

So, HSS mainly applies to daylight situations when a wide aperture is needed (eg for a nice portrait, to blur a distracting background etc), and you also need to reduce the brightness of a background to enable a subject to stand out, or a nice directional flash effect to come through. To achieve those aims with the background, you firstly reduce the exposure time to the max sync speed, and also bring the ISO down to 100 ....( these two settings have the additional benefit of giving best quality and good 'speed' for handholding).

Now, if these two settings have produced the nice darker background you want, then great! Only if they have not been able to reduce the exposure enough (ie you are 'up against the ISO and time value buffers') would you then go into HSS mode, in order to further reduce the exposure time and background brightness.

[trishytee]

No hard feelings but this is bad... I think that I have one example somewhere on flickr when I went hiking and an older friend wanted me to take picture of him but with properly exposed sky. As I did not had with me anything just a bare flash and simple dumb remote triggers therefore hard shadows are there but I think that this is what you are looking for. Let me know if I am right... Here they are:







[

All those were taken in the late afternoon around 6pm and no ND filters or anything used here accept one flash off camera and dumb trigger (NPT-04). Take a look at EXIF on those for settings I used.

This is how you mount the flash in your softbox. Under red cover on the front is optical sensor and this should face your firing main flash in order to trigger.

RAART I don't have that kind of soft box, it is an elastic fitting, which is why the slave can't see the light. Your pics aren't what I am looking for, I'm looking for the sky detail as in the photo I posted earlier. I am stuck with these soft boxes.

---------- Post added 05-18-2016 at 08:30 PM ----------

With these shots, why have you use HSS ? Instead of 1/350, f2.8, ISO400, you could easily have used 1/80, f2.8, ISO100 to get below sync speed (1/180 I guess on the K3) and makes everything better and easier. Your subject will look sharper because the very short flash duration at sync speed works much better at freezing movement than 1/350 in HSS. The lower ISO will help with details and color rendition. Your flash will give you significantly more light, thus giving you more latitude in what you can do (like using a light modifier). And both flashes could be used simultaneously, optical triggering of the YN working just fine in standard (non-HSS) flash mode, so no need for an additional trigger...

If you want to make your life easier with what you have on hand, just stick with sync speed or slower and don't go into HSS territory for now. Although, admitedly, it looks old school and not as cool as using a high tech feature. But it works easily, predicably and reliably...

Althoug it sounds boring, sync speed is kind of a cornerstone of flash photography. It should always be the first step from where you go toward what you want. And only go into HSS territory if absolutely needed and, obviously, if you have the right equipment to do it.

Carl, thanks, I really only went HSS because that was what I was told I needed by the fellow I bought the boxes from, plus most of the millions of sites I looked on all said it. I am now going to try your way. I must say the photos looked better in the view finder, and I think we were losing too much light by then. I suppose also when I took the photo a few years ago, where I exposed for the sky, it came in at 1/350 and I had a cable attached to the flash. As that one worked I thought I needed the HSS. Plus when I do the shots when it is a sunset sky the reading will be higher than last night. I shall battle on. thank you so much for your input.

[trishytee]

I do enjoy my HSS, but agreed that it's only needed when you're already 'up against the buffers' with every other setting ....

So, HSS mainly applies to daylight situations when a wide aperture is needed (eg for a nice portrait, to blur a distracting background etc), and you also need to reduce the brightness of a background to enable a subject to stand out, or a nice directional flash effect to come through. To achieve those aims with the background, you firstly reduce the exposure time to the max sync speed, and also bring the ISO down to 100 ....( these two settings have the additional benefit of giving best quality and good 'speed' for handholding).

Now, if these two settings have produced the nice darker background you want, then great! Only if they have not been able to reduce the exposure enough (ie you are 'up against the ISO and time value buffers') would you then go into HSS mode, in order to further reduce the exposure time and background brightness.

Thanks for that Mcgregni. I think I should stick to bird photography!! I am going to keep trying. I shall have to wait until next week for a person but I shall drag out the old Ted again. The soft boxes or box, as I could only use one are the ones the 'teacher'uses and he does incredible photography with them. I have attended one of his lectures and his wedding photography and portraits are fantastic. I shall persevere. (just popped outside and did what you suggested). I was only using my on board camera. Seems to work a lot better that last nigh't's effort. Then again it is a little lighter though cloudy. Without the horrible background, at least I have kept the sky!! Oh should I take the front cover ? off the soft box to get more light?

[RAART]

As Clackers said you are on "won't" listen side... You have an Lastolite Ezybox softbox with elastic that wraps around flash head but still bottom of the flash can be turned around even to face backwards with clear line of sight to optical sensor.
I think it is good idea to take some course how to deal with equipment before you take on photography course.

This will be my last post here... Have fun!

[trishytee]

yes, I went to take a course but it was the wrong time of day being a very bright and sunny morning, and he got exasperated as we couldn't do HSS. You know what Raart, I have been listening to everyone here, and thanking them so much and trying to learn from all. I am 72 years of age, and this is the first time someone here has managed to bring tears to my eyes because of your somewhat derogatory comments.
Just because I am having problems with exposing for a late afternoon/sunset shot doesn't mean I am as incompetent as you make me feel. https://www.flickr.com/photos/92224972@N08/

[howieb101]

Hi TrishyTee.

Best of luck with your efforts. I am sure you will get there eventually. If it was really easy it wouldn't be as rewarding but I know how you feel. I often get the same feeling working with Windows computers. Exasperating.

Anyway, I do suggest you keep practicing at home on the Teddy Bear in a less demanding and pressured environment. Once you have figured out the steps and can repeat them I suggest you note them down in a notebook. I am sure this will pay dividends as when you again need to repeat the exercise again you may have (1) forgotten the steps; and (2) your thought process.

I've had the same issue when I have set up studio lights perfectly and cannot repeat it easily the next time. Us part timers don't get the benefit of repeating and repeating until we can just dial it in like full timers.

Again, best of luck and your efforts will be rewarded.

Howie Be

[mcgregni]

Trishytee, no need to prove your photographic credentials plenty of great shots in your Flickr account there. Flash does have a habit of turning even very quite experienced photographers brains to mush, so you're in good company with that. I wrote my Guide to Pentax flash precisely because a lot of this stuff is not something that can be just 'picked up' .... but most of my general photography and flash knowledge came from reading books on the subjects ... and loads and loads of books!! (On the subject of books, I'd recommend Neil van Niekerk's 'Off-Camera Flash' book, very good for this sort of scenario. He's no HSS advocate though, so I just ignored him on that bit

I think the real soul destroyer for you was that session with the softbox salesman. Clearly he didn't understand how the equipment worked and what was possible, so how could the student be expected to ?? If he has taken those great shots you refer to, then there must be some basic differences to how you're setting yours up ..... again I would say that your distance from softbox to subject is too large for that size softbox ..... that small box might work for a head and shoulders right up close, but for your beach scenario you need it bigger (60x60cm would be a minimum I think, and then probably only covering the top half of the model) and ALSO CLOSER. If you are to get a nice soft light then that's what has to happen. Same with the teddy shots.

Its difficult on a forum, as we don' t get any visual feedback of your responses as you're reading, so it can be easy to think you're not 'listening'..... if you made a mention of the points that people have posted and said how you felt about it that would help ..... for example, I've twice pointed you to my 'Pentax & Cactus Multi-Flash HSS Demo' thread but you haven't fed back on that, so I don't know if you have missed it, or you're not interested


(Here's a link to it anyway ..... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/311128-pentax...-hss-demo.html )


If you take a look there you will see that in order to get soft directional light on the Teddy I had my flashes very close to the subject. This also has the benefit of needing less power, so faster recycling and longer battery life, both good things on an outdoors shoot. Now I understand that you don't have the Cactus flash, but many of the principles are the same, especially the ambient and flash balancing procedures.

On your beach shots, unfortunately even though you saw your Yongnuo flash light up, because it cannot work in 'HSS mode' then its single flash burst will not have illuminated the whole frame. You may not notice this unless you carried out tests with only one flash on at a time. That's something I recommend very strongly when setting up two or more flashes .... check the effect of each individually on the subject, in order to create the exact balance of light you want.

Keep at it .... I don't think there's any better place for Pentax-specific flash guidance than right here at PF!

[trishytee]

Hi TrishyTee.

Best of luck with your efforts. I am sure you will get there eventually. If it was really easy it wouldn't be as rewarding but I know how you feel. I often get the same feeling working with Windows computers. Exasperating.

Anyway, I do suggest you keep practicing at home on the Teddy Bear in a less demanding and pressured environment. Once you have figured out the steps and can repeat them I suggest you note them down in a notebook. I am sure this will pay dividends as when you again need to repeat the exercise again you may have (1) forgotten the steps; and (2) your thought process.

I've had the same issue when I have set up studio lights perfectly and cannot repeat it easily the next time. Us part timers don't get the benefit of repeating and repeating until we can just dial it in like full timers.

Again, best of luck and your efforts will be rewarded.

Howie Be

Thanks for your kindness Howie. I shall battle on. It took me forever to master white studio backgrounds, still get some spill on black! In terms of notes, I am using the little white cards and now have a bunch of them with instructions on.

---------- Post added 05-19-2016 at 05:09 AM ----------

Trishytee, no need to prove your photographic credentials plenty of great shots in your Flickr account there. Flash does have a habit of turning even very quite experienced photographers brains to mush, so you're in good company with that. I wrote my Guide to Pentax flash precisely because a lot of this stuff is not something that can be just 'picked up' .... but most of my general photography and flash knowledge came from reading books on the subjects ... and loads and loads of books!! (On the subject of books, I'd recommend Neil van Niekerk's 'Off-Camera Flash' book, very good for this sort of scenario. He's no HSS advocate though, so I just ignored him on that bit

I think the real soul destroyer for you was that session with the softbox salesman. Clearly he didn't understand how the equipment worked and what was possible, so how could the student be expected to ?? If he has taken those great shots you refer to, then there must be some basic differences to how you're setting yours up ..... again I would say that your distance from softbox to subject is too large for that size softbox ..... that small box might work for a head and shoulders right up close, but for your beach scenario you need it bigger (60x60cm would be a minimum I think, and then probably only covering the top half of the model) and ALSO CLOSER. If you are to get a nice soft light then that's what has to happen. Same with the teddy shots.

Its difficult on a forum, as we don' t get any visual feedback of your responses as you're reading, so it can be easy to think you're not 'listening'..... if you made a mention of the points that people have posted and said how you felt about it that would help ..... for example, I've twice pointed you to my 'Pentax & Cactus Multi-Flash HSS Demo' thread but you haven't fed back on that, so I don't know if you have missed it, or you're not interested


(Here's a link to it anyway ..... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/311128-pentax...-hss-demo.html )


If you take a look there you will see that in order to get soft directional light on the Teddy I had my flashes very close to the subject. This also has the benefit of needing less power, so faster recycling and longer battery life, both good things on an outdoors shoot. Now I understand that you don't have the Cactus flash, but many of the principles are the same, especially the ambient and flash balancing procedures.

On your beach shots, unfortunately even though you saw your Yongnuo flash light up, because it cannot work in 'HSS mode' then its single flash burst will not have illuminated the whole frame. You may not notice this unless you carried out tests with only one flash on at a time. That's something I recommend very strongly when setting up two or more flashes .... check the effect of each individually on the subject, in order to create the exact balance of light you want.

Keep at it .... I don't think there's any better place for Pentax-specific flash guidance than right here at PF!

Sorry Mcgregni, here I am silently jotting things down and forgetting to let you know! I do have the Combi TF and am now trying to order just a second receiver. I don't know if the Cactus would be better, than the Combi, but will try and find that out. I did win a 250 dollar voucher for a WA portrait comp, at the Camera House , so will see if they can source me just a receiver. I found some on the 'net but it was a three pin, not a four. I have written down the book you suggest (on one of my cards) and will get that. I have downloaded your guide and shall print it out on paper I will 'borrow tonight' I must say I am concerned about the size of the soft boxes now. I have been to one of Kingsley's talks, and they are the ones he uses, and he even shows the lights placed about that distance. Anyway I shall plod on. Thank you so much for your encouragement and kind words.