Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-14-2016, 11:47 PM   #76
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 11,250
QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
PTTL does have its method to solve the needs.
Yep, it lets the photographer walk to flashes, temporarily unwrap softboxes to get to them, etc., in order to get support for individual flash compensation (or achieve a global compensation that exceeds the small -2EV -- +1EV range the camera provides).

Well done, P-TTL, you just gave the photographer some healthy exercise and lots of time to ponder about how to do the next image.

Single light, standard key light applications? P-TTL will be fine (without the consistency and predictability of manual control, of course).

Multi-light, creative lighting? P-TTL is too outdated. It is a known problem amongst Pentaxians.

08-15-2016, 12:51 AM   #77
Veteran Member
mcgregni's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 2,603
oh dear, Trish, you have unwittingly brought the PF flash war across to a new battlefield!

Lets try and stay mindful of your particular concerns ..... Obviously by now you see that exposures can be controlled with both types of flash mode. In response to ClassA's points, I tend to use an on-camera AF-540FGZII as controller/master .. This benefits from a 5-stop compensation range, plenty enough given that I'm starting from that metered 0 centred level. I do accept of course that those specific non-standard effects like the rim lights are going to be more precise and easier to get the desired result with Manual. For those simpler, key light situations, then P-TTL I find to be very good and an efficient approach.

Trish, was there some confusion caused by the recommendation to go Manual? It may just be uncertainty about how each type of triggering technology works. Could you tell us again exactly what flashes you are using and hoping to use HSS with?
08-15-2016, 11:51 AM   #78
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,112
QuoteOriginally posted by trishytee Quote
I understood from earlier posts that I should be on manual flash in order to control the output.
The flash itself does not need to be on manual. You can go this route, but I'd certainly not recommend that, as it inevitably involves more (!) try & error results.
The usual advice is to use the camera mode M (and then let the flash control it's power automatically via P-TTL).
When you deliberately set up aperture for background blur and shutter times to your liking (to match level of motion of the subject or extra short if it is very bright outside and you shoot with wide apertures) in the camera you just need flash exposure compensation on the flash or in the camera to adjust flash level and you use ISO to control ambient level (the higher ISO you set, the less dark will the background be, usually this is nicer; but you have to balance this against higher ISO noise).
08-15-2016, 11:31 PM   #79
Senior Member
trishytee's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mandurah Perth
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 221
Original Poster
Holy crap, my head is bursting. OK I'm going to be doing two things. On board camera flash for the pictures where she will have the sun behind her or the group shots where they might be in harsh sun and i need to damp down the shadows. Nor worried about that. I will mainly be on P on camera and P-ttl on flash. Plus some bouncing off ceiling in house for getting ready, where I will be mainly on f2.8
Problem area: (or not) For the off camera work: Hahnet Combi transceiver on camera and two flashes with receivers. Flash guns for this are Yongnuo and I will have them on M so I can control the amount of light. My whole point here was why were the Acon triggers recommended for HSS when they only work on the P-TTl setting? Whereas Beholder has said leave camera on M (which I will be doing for the sunset?grey sky pics) and let the flash be automatic, that does not work for this scenario as I need to control the amount of light, whereas if I rely on the flash alone it will try and bounce of the sky light, and not the subjects. Anyway, I don't ever want to hear the word HSS sync again as it is making my head hurt.

08-16-2016, 12:16 AM   #80
Veteran Member
mcgregni's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 2,603
Sorry to hear that things are still not going well. I can only go by what I read in your posts, and the way you phrase things, there's no other assumptions .... but I do think the underlying problem is that you are not yet understanding the different technologies you are working with. For example, you refer to using the Acon trigger (it appears that you have the 'P-TTL Version' of this) .... but you are using Yongnuo flashes, which are not P-TTL ... they are Manual. Therefore they are not compatible with the Acon 'P-TTL' type trigger.

Also, Yongnuos are not HSS capable. The Cactus RF60 is one flash that does 'true' HSS in Manual mode, if that's what you need. You have the choice of triggering it for HSS from the new V6II transceiver unit, or with the 'Optical method' using a P-TTL controller flash on the camera.

I haven't gone back to the start here, but I suspect this may have been one point that was made much earlier. For your on-camera flash work, if you have a P-TTL flash, then the advice for Manual camera mode is good ..... the flash exposure is controlled by flash compensation on the flash unit .... 'automatic' does not mean you have no control over it.

Did you get a chance to look through my Guide ? It doesn't cover specific Manual systems like Yongnuo / Hahnel etc, but a lot of the general flash principles are looked at. Certainly if you want to use some P-TTL then there's plenty of interest there which would help. Probably best to keep it simple now, and try and shoot from an angle that doesn't have too much strong backlight.

Last edited by mcgregni; 08-16-2016 at 12:30 AM.
08-16-2016, 02:23 AM - 1 Like   #81
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 11,250
QuoteOriginally posted by trishytee Quote
Holy crap, my head is bursting.
It can be as easy as 1, 2, 3:
  1. Put your camera into "M" mode and press the green button. This will give you a starting point for the the ambient exposure. Depending on the configuration (-> "e-dial programming" in the menu) of the green button, you'll get both aperture and shutter speed altered or just one of them. I prefer to have the green button assigned to "Tv shift" so that I can select an aperture for my DOF choice and let the camera pick a shutter speed for me.
  2. Adjust the shutter speed so that you get a desired exposure for the ambient light. Often this is about a stop lower than what the camera suggested because you want some lighting contrast between the subject and the background.
  3. Choose a flash power that lights your subjects according to your vision. Either do it manually (increasing power till you find the sweet spot, for instance) or do whatever the P-TTL people are telling you.
Done.

HSS is something you should not worry about. Both Acon and Cactus triggers let you forget about it. It just helps you to do the above without regard for the shutter speed. Without HSS, the above will only work in circumstances where you can keep the shutter speed below or equal to 1/180s (or 1/200s on a K-1). If it is bright and you do not want to adjust the aperture accordingly then you either need to use ND filters or HSS. Both Acon and Cactus triggers will engage HSS automatically in such situations. You'll only notice by the fact that your flash power now becomes less and dependent on the shutter speed.
08-16-2016, 02:29 AM   #82
Veteran Member
mcgregni's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 2,603
Sounds good! I think the really key thing here is to get your equipment matched with the flash style and techniques you need to use. If there's a miss-match there then continued headaches are coming.

08-17-2016, 08:26 PM   #83
Senior Member
trishytee's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mandurah Perth
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 221
Original Poster
Yes, I am being a bit confusing. I neglected to say that I was using my dedicated Pentax flash when I was trying out the HSS with the Acon. It just would not work and just defaulted back to the 180 shutter speed. It would go as high as I wanted in Pttl but then gave me no manual control. So I gave up on that, and will now use the Pttl on manual.

---------- Post added 08-17-2016 at 08:45 PM ----------

I will try that one. What I am doing at the moment is setting the shutter to the max flash of 1/180 then exposing for the ambient light (this is late in day, sunset or clouds). I then lock in those readings so 1/180 f5.6 ISO 100 then light subject with flash. Hopefully next week I can post a successful image!
08-17-2016, 11:52 PM   #84
Veteran Member
mcgregni's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 2,603
That sounds like a solid approach to ' locking in' the ambient exposure, and is good whether you choose manual or P-TTL exposures. Follow the 1 2 3 steps from ClassA above for a fuller run-down.


The actual shutter speed required depends on how bright, or dark, you want the background to be. As said by ClassA above, the usual problem in brighter light is that we don't want smaller apertures for our nice portraits. So the alternative is to go beyond 180thsec, into HSS mode, or use the ND filter option.

As Clackers reminded you earlier, HSS with Pentax flashes is a P-TTL mode operation only. You need to have 'HS' mode set on the flash and a shutter speed set from 1/200th through 1/8000th .... Manual flash mode will cause it all to cancel out.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
acon, book, boxes, camera, f2.8, filter, flash, flashes, hss, light, lighting, mode, pentax, photo, photo studio, receiver, shutter, size, sky, slave, softbox, strobist, subject, sync, territory
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Acon R930 P-TTL radio trigger and 1/8000 Sync rawr Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 176 11-11-2019 09:03 PM
Acon R930: HSS question - Do I have my settings right? howieb101 Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 11 05-13-2016 08:36 AM
Solving AF Problems - 8 Common Autofocus Problems - And Their Solutions interested_observer General Photography 17 04-27-2016 03:06 AM
Acon R930 multi flash setup HSS fun fact using Metz-Canon flash as second unit beholder3 Flashes, Lighting, and Studio 4 03-29-2016 03:29 AM
Need help with exposure problems and snow photography problems, urgent please respond montezuma Photographic Technique 7 02-24-2008 05:43 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:32 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top