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11-30-2016, 04:03 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
And I'll counter...

The pop-up flash
  • will produce reflections in images, even in "commander" mode. Not if you use a shield that passes only IR.
  • has limited reach. But is very effective when you need a bit of fill to balance background lighting.
  • does not support effective multiple off-camera flash control. Really? I've used two off-camera P-TTL flashes several times.
  • is pretty much useless as a light source. See the second item in the list. Plus it is always there.
AFAIC, the limitations of a pop-up flash are incompatible with the ambition associated with the use of a camera like the K-1 or K-3 II.
However, there are times ALL the room I have is for the body and one lens - and I've had to separate them to get them into my personal carry-on. No extras, and that includes radio triggers.

These are the very reasons why I chose the K-3 a few months back over either the K-3II or K-1. Each photographer has his/her own needs. I still want and make good use of a pro-level body. Given the choice of the built-in flash and its value to me, versus an astrotracer and its value to me, the flash won hands down. I think the GPS with its connection to store image metadata could be fitted into a pro-level body without sacrificing the built-in flash - and I certainly hope Pentax realizes that many of its serious photographers are not going to settle for a mid-range body to keep the flash.
I concur.

11-30-2016, 04:47 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I disagree.

The pop-up flash ...
... is great to have as an option.


This is using the popup to get catchlights in the eyes and extra contrast:






Here it is doing wildlife photography, with a Rogue Flash Extender:





I haven't even mentioned its main purpose for me - fill in broad daylight, where there might be three stops difference between a forehead and an eye socket or under the chin!
11-30-2016, 05:06 PM   #33
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Check out this thread at our UK Pentax Forum ...... The Pop Up Flash Club ? Pentax DSLR Cameras Forum ? The Pentax Forum.co.uk ? Pentax Community Photography Forums ...... a bit of pop-up flashing fun and banter, and if you go to the bottom of the first page you'll see a few examples of mine where I don't think there would have been much of a photo to take if my camera didn't have a pop-up (because I wasn't carrying a flash with me).
11-30-2016, 06:31 PM - 3 Likes   #34
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We visited our daughter in Texas last winter. Sure I took my (then) K-30 and fortunately one of my external flashes. I planned on shooting scenics in the Texas Hill Country - not portraits! My daughter told me on arrival that she needed a headshot for marketing purposes (she is self-employed) - like now. Dads can fix anything right? The home she and her husband had just bought had no good backdrop. Outside, the sun was way too contrasty for portraiture, not to mention I needed a wider aperture for better background separation. Finally I took her behind the garage in total shade with the neighbor's foliage as the backdrop. Trying to duplicate the sun's angle in the background, I positioned my wife as a light stand with my one P-TTL flash for a key light and used the built-in flash for fill.

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12-01-2016, 06:07 AM   #35
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I think we can all agree that a 8-flashes, HSS, remote controlled system is likely to produce better results.

BUTTTTTTTTT.... That doesn't mean the pop-up flash is useless.

I confess that I don't miss it as much as I thought I would on the K-1. However, I do miss it sometimes, and mostly to trigger my wireless PTTL flash.
12-01-2016, 06:21 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I think we can all agree that a 8-flashes, HSS, remote controlled system is likely to produce better results.

BUTTTTTTTTT.... That doesn't mean the pop-up flash is useless.

I confess that I don't miss it as much as I thought I would on the K-1. However, I do miss it sometimes, and mostly to trigger my wireless PTTL flash.
you can use a wire. that is very cheap. no more than 20 USD. make it much better than the pop up.
12-01-2016, 11:20 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
you can use a wire. that is very cheap. no more than 20 USD.
I'd be interested to see a PTTL wire for 20$, for sure.

QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
make it much better than the pop up.
Not always. With the pop-up as control or commander, you can set the flash farther away than you could with a wire, and move around more easily.

They are not mutually exclusive, they all have their uses.
12-01-2016, 03:00 PM - 1 Like   #38
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Today's pop up flash picture is brought to you by the letter K... (K-3 that is):

Cross posted in SIC



12-02-2016, 08:01 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I'd be interested to see a PTTL wire for 20$, for sure.
These work just fine:
Vello Off-Camera TTL Flash Cord for Pentax Cameras (3') OCS-P3
12-02-2016, 08:24 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I'd be interested to see a PTTL wire for 20$, for sure.
QuoteOriginally posted by Quartermaster James Quote
Seriously? 3 feet / 1m? (and with a coiled cord to constantly tug on flash/camera) Yes it is under $20USD, However, when I do off-camera P-TTL My camera more often than not is farther away from the flash than 3 feet. These cords are meant for using a camera attached flashbar to put the flash just enough off center as to avoid 'red eye'.
12-02-2016, 08:39 AM   #41
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I hate cord attached flash except with a bracket. Optical or radio wireless is a godsend.
12-02-2016, 11:25 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quartermaster James Quote
These work just fine:
Vello Off-Camera TTL Flash Cord for Pentax Cameras (3') OCS-P3
QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
Seriously? 3 feet / 1m? (and with a coiled cord to constantly tug on flash/camera) Yes it is under $20USD, However, when I do off-camera P-TTL My camera more often than not is farther away from the flash than 3 feet. These cords are meant for using a camera attached flashbar to put the flash just enough off center as to avoid 'red eye'.
Indeed, 3 feet is just way too short. Make it 10-15 feet and we'll be talking, but then the bulk and inconvenience will make is useless, sadly.
12-02-2016, 02:33 PM   #43
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You can also use the cord to handhold the flash at arm's length to get a 45 degree flash angle.

Bill Cunningham built a career on that at the New York Times.


12-02-2016, 02:36 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
You can also use the cord to handhold the flash at arm's length to get a 45 degree flash angle.

Bill Cunningham built a career on that at the New York Times.
I agree that this can be done - but it is still annoying compared with wireless. I would find the cable as annoying as waiting to develop film is vs. Digital for me these days. Annoying but useful and good results can be had.
12-02-2016, 03:52 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I agree that this can be done - but it is still annoying compared with wireless. I would find the cable as annoying as waiting to develop film is vs. Digital for me these days. Annoying but useful and good results can be had.
Sure. I use an Acon radio trigger to get complete P-TTL/HSS support.

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