[Paul the Sunman]

I just bought a new Pentax AF360FGZ II flash to use with my K-1 and existing Metz 52 AF-1 P-TTL flash. Preliminary testing indicates that the two flashes work well together wirelessly in either configuration: either the Pentax or the Metz on-camera as master or controller with the other as slave.

However, I was surprised to see that the included manual for the 360 refers only to APS-C, 645D, and Q. No mention, in the text or tables, of full frame (K-1) or even 645Z. The on-line manual was the same.

So, is the AF360FGZ II full-frame ready, especially as regards zoom position and flash coverage? Certainly, in autozoom mode, it seems to register the correct focal length, though does it know that it is attached to a FF camera and therefore should use a wider light spread? A few tests suggest that it does provide adequate spread, so I am surprised the manual says nothing about it.

By the way, these two Pentax and Metz flashes are very good, with very similar functionality. They are almost the same price in Australia. For anyone tossing up which to buy, these are the differences I would note:

1. The Metz 52 AF-1 is much more powerful than the Pentax AF360FGZ II (guide number 52 compared to 36).
2. Perhaps related to power, the zoom range on the Pentax is 24-85 mm, and 24-105 mm on the Metz.
3. The Pentax is more compact and a little lighter (290 g without batteries compared to 346 g).
4. The Pentax is weather resistant, the Metz is not (or doesn't claim to be).
5. The Metz cannot do HSS in wireless mode, the Pentax can (you would need two of them with the K-1 to take advantage of this).
6. The Metz has an extensive touch-screen menu system, whereas the Pentax uses a more traditional buttons-and-dials interface. I am still getting used to the Pentax interface, but it seems quite straightforward. Which of the two approaches is to be preferred is a personal matter.
7. The Metz firmware can be updated by the user using a usb connection, the Pentax cannot.
8. Neither flash can use an extension cord directly; you need an adapter.
9. The Pentax has a built-in LED light for catchlight (and some degree of continuous lighting for video), the Metz does not. However, the included white reflector card on the Metz does a good job with catchlight, and a 3-second modelling light is available as a "high-frequency stroboscopic flash".
10. The included stand of the Pentax fits neatly in the supplied pouch together with the flash; this is not so of the Metz. However, the Metz pouch has a handy belt loop that the Pentax lacks. The Metz stand can be screwed to a tripod, the Pentax cannot.
11. The Pentax has a release button to allow the head to be tilted (annoying), the Metz does not.
12. The Pentax has something called Contrast Control Sync Mode, the Metz does not (explicitly). However, although I haven't used it, this seems to just be a way to have different powers set on the different flashes; that can be done directly on the Metz. CORRECTION: I have just found "Contrast Control" in the Metz manual, which seems to be the same thing. Both the Pentax and Metz manuals seem to suggest that this only operates in wired mode, with attendant accessories, but I'm confused about whether this is the case or not. Anyway, it seems easy enough to adjust the power compensation on each of the master and slave and get whatever balance you like. So I don't really understand Contrast Control mode.

So far, after only very limited testing of the Pentax, I can recommend both units. I particularly appreciate the added power and updateabilty of the Metz, whilst the compactness and WR of the Pentax is appealing. Apart from the HSS issue, they pair well together. As far as I know, the AF360FGZ II is the most compact option capable of acting as a master or controller in lieu of the pop-up on the K3 II or K-1.

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Last edited by Paul the Sunman; 08-05-2016 at 08:05 PM.

[beholder3]

you need to compare apples to apples for the guide numbers.

the 360 delivers GN 33 with a 50mm lens
the 58 delivers GN 38 with a 50 mm lens

now the differenece looks much smaller...

[Paul the Sunman]

you need to compare apples to apples for the guide numbers.

the 360 delivers GN 33 with a 50mm lens
the 58 delivers GN 38 with a 50 mm lens

now the differenece looks much smaller...

Thanks, I was looking for those numbers. Nonetheless, I notice a significant difference, especially with bounce off tall ceilings.

[jawsy]

Where can you purchase the 360 in Australia? I can't seem to find any Australian outlets offering it.

[rawr]

Where can you purchase the 360 in Australia? I can't seem to find any Australian outlets offering it.

Some of the usual suspects seem to list it - eg digidirect, cambuy. But funnily enough it's not currently listed on the pentax.com.au store.

However the flash is all over eBay and on B&H, Adorama etc.

[Paul the Sunman]

I got it from Digidirect, but they took about 3 weeks to get it in.

[aleonx3]

While I can't comment on the flash differences since I only have the AF360FGZ II. The AF360FGZ II has a front LED; don't think that the Metz 52 AF-1 has one (perhaps in the newer model). That makes a big difference IMHO... which comes in handy when doing short video. I don't need to use any flash diffuser with this newer flash.

[Paul the Sunman]

While I can't comment on the flash differences since I only have the AF360FGZ II. The AF360FGZ II has a front LED; don't think that the Metz 52 AF-1 has one (perhaps in the newer model). That makes a big difference IMHO... which comes in handy when doing short video. I don't need to use any flash diffuser with this newer flash.

That was stated in my Point 9. I don't care much about video, but if you do, then the Pentax is the obvious choice. The Big Brother Metz 64 AF-1 has a separate modelling light - I don't know if it's suitable for video, and the Little Brother 26 AF-2 has a "high performance LED" video light.

[aleonx3]

That was stated in my Point 9. I don't care much about video, but if you do, then the Pentax is the obvious choice. The Big Brother Metz 64 AF-1 has a separate modelling light - I don't know if it's suitable for video, and the Little Brother 26 AF-2 has a "high performance LED" video light.

I agree that if you don't shoot video then the LED does not mean much... however, there is some difference in using the front LED vs white card as "catch-light". The LED stays at the front, while the swivel head can be turned to provide a completely different light source (which the white card can not do). I have done many events including weddings with flash and I don't think that I will go ever back to use flash without front LED.

[Reed]

Does af assist on metz works when mounted on your K-1?

[Paul the Sunman]

Does af assist on metz works when mounted on your K-1?

No. The K-1 uses its own AF assist lamp, though AF-BEAM is turned on in the Metz. I don't see how to tell the camera to use the flash's beam instead. On the other hand, the K-1 does use the flash's AF assist lamp with the Pentax AF360FGZ II. The AF360 manual suggests that this has been standard Pentax practice since the firmware updates of September 2013.

[Reed]

All recent Pentax cameras seems not able tu use even legacy flashes like FGZ540/360 with af assist-for sure K-1,K-3II,K-S2,K-S1 all states in manual that AF assist light is not available with the AF540FGZ or AF360FGZ. I have talked with metz support on that case but first guy wrote me that is becouse use of amateur line camera(K-s2) and when pointed that all current cameras in line will miss that feature he told me it(my emails and testing) will be passed to R&D division on their company, no word since then becouse they dont have either any of the current line camera body, or any recent Pentax flash to do the testing.

[mcgregni]

Some good comparative notes Paul. Glad to hear the wireless and exposures all work well together.

I've wondered also about the Format indications, and the 'missing' 35mm setting. It's almost as if they just forgot they were going to introduce the K1! The old film TTL mode was dropped, and so I could understand dropping the format indication, IF there was no FF model coming .....

If you're not sure that the zoom is going out to the widest position with your wide-angle FF lenses, then pull out the 'wide-angle panel' .... This will automatically zoom the flash head to the widest position, regardless of auto or manual mode being set. If you hear it zoom out then it suggests the format is not being detected. I guess if this is the case then manual will be needed when you really need the wider coverage.

The ' Contrast Control Sync'' mode is indeed only for extension cord working. It works simultaneously with Flash Compensations, creating a fixed ratio of output between 2 flashes (eg 1/3 - 2/3), for a simple 'main/fill' type scenario. It won't change the total amount of actual flash exposure lighting the scene, but rather just split that flash exposure between two, creating ' 'contrast' .. If you want to adjust the actual flash exposure, so changing the total amount of light, then that's done with the Flash Compensation settings ... The set ratios still hold though, just at the adjusted flash exposure level. .

The Wireless equivalent appears in Wireless P-TTL mode, on Slave or 'Master' flashes. The ratio setting is beside the compensation setting. There is miniscule reference to the feature in the Pentax flash manual, and it's not even named or described meaningfully. I've created the term 'Wireless Lighting Ratio Control' in my Guide, to distinguish it from Contrast Control Sync'.

[Ray-uk]

you need to compare apples to apples for the guide numbers.

the 360 delivers GN 33 with a 50mm lens
the 58 delivers GN 38 with a 50 mm lens

now the differenece looks much smaller...

You seem to be comparing different apples.

The 360 appears to deliver GN 33 with a 50mm lens covering APS-C

The 58 delivers GN 38 with a 50mm lens covering FF

If you use the "Auto zoom for sensor size" of the 58 then it delivers a GN of 45 with a 50mm lens covering APS-C

It's probably all a bit irrelevant anyway because the original post referred to the Metz 52

[beholder3]

The 58 delivers GN 38 with a 50mm lens covering FF

You may well be right. The tables in the manual did not say anything about sensor size, just mm.

Anyhow it is important to compare at same zoom reflector settings, other wise the flashes with the higher zoom setting always sound great, but actually are not.

The very old Metz's did get numbers based on 50mm, so their product name sounds weak, but actually they are quite strong.