[jake14mw]

Here is an example of a lighting situation I'm talking about. In a case like this, I know I can't get the shutter speed down to 1/180th, so I do the best I can with a reflector. I'd like to be able to use some flash that I control the level of, at 1/500th.

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[mcgregni]

Yes, if you need to reduce a brighter background but don't want a smaller aperture, plus the subject needs to be lit, then HSS flash helps out. In a shot like yours there I think simple on-camera bare HSS would be fine. But if you've got time and can set up an off camera flash, that's great ...I wish I did have that chance more, but out and about its often not practical.

Off-camera HSS is a more complex, multi-layered process that needs a methodical and well practiced approach to become consistent and reliable with each specific equipment grouping .... The V6II brings the radio remote control advantages. Oh, and have I already said to use Manual camera mode ..... ?

[clackers]

Here is an example of a lighting situation I'm talking about. In a case like this, I know I can't get the shutter speed down to 1/180th, so I do the best I can with a reflector. I'd like to be able to use some flash that I control the level of, at 1/500th.

Classic HSS situation.

You can even put your subject out in that lit area in front of the shadowed building and do HSS fill on her.

[jake14mw]

Yes, if you need to reduce a brighter background but don't want a smaller aperture, plus the subject needs to be lit, then HSS flash helps out. In a shot like yours there I think simple on-camera bare HSS would be fine. But if you've got time and can set up an off camera flash, that's great ...I wish I did have that chance more, but out and about its often not practical.

Off-camera HSS is a more complex, multi-layered process that needs a methodical and well practiced approach to become consistent and reliable with each specific equipment grouping .... The V6II brings the radio remote control advantages. Oh, and have I already said to use Manual camera mode ..... ?

I guess I should TRY regular HSS with the flash in the hot shoe. I guess it just goes against my age old hatred of any direct flash in the hotshoe. I suppose it may not be too bad for a SLIGHT fill. The other issue is that I am always using at least a 77mm focal length for these type of portraits, so with a full body shot, I am probably 10 yards away. Will HSS have enough power? With these triggers though, the thing I was hoping to benefit from is manual control of the flash output.

[CarlJF]

I guess I should TRY regular HSS with the flash in the hot shoe. I guess it just goes against my age old hatred of any direct flash in the hotshoe. I suppose it may not be too bad for a SLIGHT fill. The other issue is that I am always using at least a 77mm focal length for these type of portraits, so with a full body shot, I am probably 10 yards away. Will HSS have enough power? With these triggers though, the thing I was hoping to benefit from is manual control of the flash output.

For fill flash, direct flash on the hotshoe isn't too bad and, done in right amount, certainly can look better than no flash at all. Note that in P-TTL you can control the power using flash exposure compensation set from the body or on the flash. For subtle direct fill flash, -2 FEC is usually fine and will not look "flashed" at all. But you have to adjust for the specific lighting you're in. Just remember that negative FEC value will lower the power of the flash by this number of stop relative to normal expsoure....

[jake14mw]

For fill flash, direct flash on the hotshoe isn't too bad and, done in right amount, certainly can look better than no flash at all. Note that in P-TTL you can control the power using flash exposure compensation set from the body or on the flash. For subtle direct fill flash, -2 FEC is usually fine and will not look "flashed" at all. But you have to adjust for the specific lighting you're in. Just remember that negative FEC value will lower the power of the flash by this number of stop relative to normal expsoure....

The bottom line is, I should try it out and see what it looks like. The issue is, I'm trying to make beautiful portraits of people, not just snapshots. I'm saying direct fill should look "OK", your term is "not too bad". I'm looking for great and awesome! I'll give it a try and see.

[mcgregni]

We don't know enough about your situation, how much experience you have, how much time you have to practise and test things in the field before doing a shoot. Yes, beautiful portraits outdoors most likely need off-camera flashes, maybe 2 at least, plus diffusers .... BUT .... even without HSS, managing that, the set-up, positioning, testing shots is quite a business .... Add off-camera manual HSS into the mix and you're increasing the complexity significantly, not the least in the number of individual exposure settings you'll need to keep juggling (aperture, ISO, Power, Time Value, Flash Head Zoom,plus adjustments to one each time you change the distances, plus if your ambient light changes) .... and none of this can be done automatically unless you stick to P-TTL HSS.

The reality is, for most of us, that in the real world out and about with family members or in any dynamic situations, that is going to become too painstaking and difficult with people waiting around. So the compromise is often good old on-camera direct flash .... as Carl says, he's so right, its a lot better than no flash in many situations.

[jake14mw]

Manual isn't that difficult, especially with the instant feedback of the modern Polaroid aka histogram. My flash bag is 4 yn-560 iiis, a 560 tx, pair of yn 603ii's as backup and some NDs.

I don't think my brain is as sharp as many people's. My sessions are already long, I'm thinking if I was constantly chimping in M mode, it would make it even longer. How has your experience been with using ND filters?

[mcgregni]

Here's some of my recent shots using direct, on-camera HSS flash .... in my opinion I had no choice to use this technique, in fact it made the shots that otherwise just wouldn't be there to take .... because the lighting balance had to be highly controlled and the subjects needed to be lit, not just filled ..... the Pentax AF540 models or Cactus RF60 are plenty powerful enought for this sort of thing at quite reasonable distances ..... its only once you get to 1/2000th sec and shorter that the power loss gets very restricting.

The settings for these are around 1/500th to 1/800th sec, F5.6, ISO 100 .... of course, this is Automatic flash ('P-TTL HS') ... I would never even try this with manual HSS flash, even if I had the technology that could do it, just because with the movements I was doing around the subjects and distance changes plus background lighting changes would make manual flash impractical in this scenario ..... Camera is the K7, Flash is the AF-540FGZ ....

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This one shows the effect when the flash didn't fire .... IMO thats not a photo to take ....

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And here again with the flash where I needed to pull down the ambient brightness and bring out the subject with some direct light.

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Now all of these I think don't have too many tell-tale signs of bare direct flash ..... thats to do with whats behind the subject really.

Here's another with clear signs of the flash, but again, its a photo that doesn't exist without HSS flash ....

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But here again, its not intrusive ...

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And finally, to cap it all, what this all about .... some real off-camera HSS ! This one has a flash and reflective umbrella just off to the left, balancing very harsh background light and lighting the subject from the angle .... 1/500th sec, F6.7 ....

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Obviously a better effect ..... but I had plenty of time in my garden to get it set up, plus the P-TTL automatic flash helps a lot with a moving subject and being able to reposition the umbrella quickly.

[Pablo Villegas]

I really don't understand what you want... but it seems like you need off camera flash, with HSS or any other type of high speed sync. And you're better off using it in manual mode, or getting a Canon, Nikon or Sony camera, those can do TTL and HSS together.

Is not really hard using the camera on manual mode, specially on digital now, just take a test shot and adjust accordingly, you don't even have to move your Fstop, just change the lights inetsnsity and adjust the shutter to darken or brighten the natural light, that's it...

I did this two shots in basically 5 minutes, without a lightmeter... I found that guy on the street and had to paid him to get it's portrait. IMG_8353-Edit.jpg | Lighting: Godox AD360 to camera left, fu? | Flickr
IMG_8352-Edit.jpg | Lighting: Godox AD360 to camera left, fu? | Flickr

I missed the focus on the second one, it's in his hands, instead of the face, but it's hard judging focus on that small screen in broad daylight.

[mcgregni]

Shall we add Pentax to your list of brands that do 'TTL and HSS together' .....?

[CarlJF]

The bottom line is, I should try it out and see what it looks like. The issue is, I'm trying to make beautiful portraits of people, not just snapshots. I'm saying direct fill should look "OK", your term is "not too bad". I'm looking for great and awesome! I'll give it a try and see.

Sure, direct fill flash cannot compare to what you can achieve with a more complex setup. However, it can still look very good depending on the situation, even if not as good as off camera flash wiuth umbrellas, softbox, etc... The main advantage here being that it's quick and easy to setup. As with anything flash, this is mostly a matter of finding the good balance between ambient light and flash. Which, I admit, is often easier said than done.

I suggest you read this article: On Camera Flash Outdoors. It shows some good examples on what can be achieve by using direct fill flash in outdoor settings with TTL mode and adjusting flash exposure compensation. Although we can certainly argue that the pictures could have been better by using more complex techniques and setup, they're still looking pretty good to me and certainly way above "snapshot" status.

[Pablo Villegas]

Shall we add Pentax to your list of brands that do 'TTL and HSS together' .....?

I don't know, as far as I asked, after getting my 645D, you can't, except with speed lights, not with studio strobes.

[mcgregni]

Ok, I didn't think we were taking about studio lights, as the OP seems to only have accessory flashes and was interested in the RF60 .....I guess the V6II improves things a lot for us now, certainly for manual strobes if we can get them with HSS capability .... Not P-TTL though, that's true ..... However, 'real strobists' aren't supposed to use wimpy pathetic P-TTL are they ... ?

I don't think my brain is as sharp as many people's. My sessions are already long, I'm thinking if I was constantly chimping in M mode, it would make it even longer. How has your experience been with using ND filters?

Easy. Set your exposure for ambient and use flash for fill. Two examples. The first just as I wrote and second with ND filters and a couple of YN 560III's on a piece of mending plate atop a a tripod.

The main idea is, you're making two exposures, one for ambient and one for flash. Once you get the idea of balancing them, you got it. Both of these were with a 50-135 at 2.8 and ISO 80 or 200