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11-22-2016, 11:09 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
that is the way firmwar 3.6 receiver is. you should make the sender the same firmware 3.6, or use the receiver 516 fix firmware .
Thanks andy888. I gather then that with firmware 3.6 all of the options listed in the instructions are moot. The system is always TTL and always on the same channel, correct?

11-22-2016, 11:30 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
.

Clackers, I am only summarising an impression and view built up by contributors here on this forum .....I do not wish to cast a bad light unfairly, but we have not had any balancing reports of successful and reliable multi-flash automatic P-TTL exposures, nor reliable multi-group manual control, from users of these triggers. .
Who are these 'contributors', Nigel?

Just the confused GraySaint, or were there others? Links, please!



11-22-2016, 11:39 AM   #33
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SO. I loaded firmware 3.6 into the transmitter, got a message saying it had successfully loaded. When the transmitter is turned on, the LEDs light and I can change them as described in the user manual. Put it all together, transmitter on K1, 360II on receiver, turn on all four devices, wait for strobe to charge. Press shutter for test - nothing. Flash does not fire. Change channel several times on transmitter - nothing. What settings should be used on the transmitter? They cannot be made the same as those on the receiver because all the LEDs on the receiver are off, and the transmitter cannot be set that that way. Suggestions??
11-22-2016, 11:44 AM   #34
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Clackers, I'll certainly try and look back, but its a general impression .... Do you feel it is unfair, and that there is evidence of good and reliable multi-flash and manual group control with Acon triggers? As I said, it is not my aim to cast an unfair light, and I would love to hear the positive reports if there were those experiences. You yourself, am I right in thinking your use is limited to a single flash?

11-22-2016, 03:21 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Put it all together, transmitter on K1, 360II on receiver, turn on all four devices, wait for strobe to charge. Press shutter for test - nothing. Flash does not fire. Change channel several times on transmitter - nothing. What settings should be used on the transmitter? They cannot be made the same as those on the receiver because all the LEDs on the receiver are off, and the transmitter cannot be set that that way. Suggestions??
Good to hear your firmware v3.6 went in OK.

I presume you now have v3.6 installed on both the Acon receiver and transmitter units?

Now that you have the firmware in there, note also that it is always very important to perform the 'start-up' sequence correctly for your Acons, camera and flash:

(1) Turn everything off (camera, flashes, Acons);

(2) Connect everything together;

(3) Initiate start-up sequence
- first, turn on Acon transmitter, then ..
- turn on Acon receiver(s), then ..
- turn on flash(es), then ..
- turn on camera.

(4) Half press camera shutter button to get all units talking, LED lights flashing;

(5) check flash is set to P-TTL or HSS (or whatever you want), check camera settings etc.

By default the Acons are setup 'out of the box' for P-TTL (inc. HSS). So to get the Acons to work, all that is required is to power them on (in the sequence described above). No button presses required. But all the settings of the other gear has to be adjusted according to what you need.

BTW, AFAIK v3.6 has no settings for RF channel adjustment. v3.9 and v5 do though, so are you sure you have v3.6 installed on both units?

Last edited by rawr; 11-22-2016 at 03:43 PM.
11-22-2016, 03:43 PM   #36
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thanks for start-up sequence. I was not attending to a particular sequence for activating the four components. Will try a bit later this evening if I have a chance, and let you know if I have any success.

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Good to hear your firmware v3.6 went in OK.

I presume you now have v3.6 installed on both the Acon receiver and transmitter units?

Now that you have the firmware in there, note also that it is always very important to perform the 'start-up' sequence correctly for your Acons, camera and flash:

(1) Turn everything off (camera, flashes, Acons);

(2) Connect everything together;

(3) Initiate start-up sequence
- first, turn on Acon transmitter, then ..
- turn on Acon receiver, then ..
- turn on flash(es), then ..
- turn on camera.

(Shut-down is the reverse of this).

(4) Half press camera shutter button to get all units talking, lights flashing;

(5) check flash is set to P-TTL or HSS (or whatever you want), check camera settings etc.

By default the Acons are setup 'out of the box' for P-TTL (inc. HSS). So to get the Acons to work, all that is required is to power them on (in the sequence described above). No button presses required. But all the settings of the other gear has to be adjusted according to what you need.

BTW, AFAIK v3.6 has no settings for RF channel adjustment. v3.9 and v5 do though, so are you sure you have v3.6 installed on both units?


---------- Post added 11-22-16 at 06:29 PM ----------

I ran the experiment. Flash on receiver, make sure it's in tight and the locking pin goes down. Transmitter on camera hotshoe, make sure it's snug and the locking pin goes down smoothly. Power up in sequence: transmitter, receiver, flash and finally camera. Half press the shutter release, the lights on the front of the Acon units are merrily blinking green. Camera on "X" and flash on pTTL, press shutter - nothing. Flash does not fire. Jiggle both flash and transmitter a bit to make sure they are seated in their respective hotshoes, green lights still blinking rapidly, press shutter - - nothing. Put camera on "A" and try again, nothing. Put flash to "master" pTTL mode -nothing. Check flash setting in camera menu, no question that "flash on" is selected. The rapidly blinking green lights on the front of the two Acon units presumably indicate they are talking to each other, so there should not be, for example, a wrong channel set on the transmitter. The latter has LEDs 2, 3, and 4 on, plus the happily blinking LED at the front end. But the flash still does not fire. BTW, according to the compatibility table posted by Acon, K1 + 360II has been tested and should work.

SUGGESTIONS?? (please)

Last edited by WPRESTO; 11-22-2016 at 04:31 PM.
11-22-2016, 05:25 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
You yourself, am I right in thinking your use is limited to a single flash?
Okay, let's get this right, Nigel, because what you're saying will end up in Google and forum results on the topic, and there is an onus on you to be accurate.

I have a full Yongnuo setup. Three flashes and a TX controller, which has LCD display, groups, remote power and zoom, etc.

That's what I use for any photography in the home, with lots of different modifiers (I have a strip box, beauty dish, octabox, etc) and all in manual for the best control.

I have an Acon for heading out of the house to give me P-TTL and HSS on a single speedlight, but that's it ... I'll probably never buy another Acon receiver, unless I want a backup.

So, I have no idea what it's like using two at the same time. And other owners I respect - Rawr, Beholder, Mattb - don't either. You certainly don't!

So, if we don't have opinions, on who have you chosen to base your summary or consensus of all us contributors on the issue?

If you read in the forum from enough credible sources that having two receivers doesn't work ... that it's not the same as having two P-TTL cables coming out of one hotshoe, for example ... I'd like to see those posts.

It would be like someone reading the experiences of Wpresto and I, and concluding the firmware can't be updated. Rawr has shown us to be mistaken.


Last edited by clackers; 11-22-2016 at 05:36 PM.
11-22-2016, 06:33 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
SO. I loaded firmware 3.6 into the transmitter, got a message saying it had successfully loaded. When the transmitter is turned on, the LEDs light and I can change them as described in the user manual. Put it all together, transmitter on K1, 360II on receiver, turn on all four devices, wait for strobe to charge. Press shutter for test - nothing. Flash does not fire. Change channel several times on transmitter - nothing. What settings should be used on the transmitter? They cannot be made the same as those on the receiver because all the LEDs on the receiver are off, and the transmitter cannot be set that that way. Suggestions??
You must use firmware 516 for sender and firmware 516 receiver fix firmware for K1 and 360II. or change the flash to other models. firmware 3.6 isn't supported.
11-22-2016, 06:59 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
But the flash still does not fire.
Is the flash seated correctly? The Acon manual does give special mention about the AF 360II:

QuoteQuote:
Electronic Contact:
For AF360II AF540II, which use metal hot shoe. be careful that the flash fit firmly on the receiver. User may need to turn the flash tighter to make the connect touch OK if it is loose or poor contact. Try turn the flash on the receiver hot shoe adapter around a little.

When using with Pentax SLR, the locking ring of the transmitter need not tight too firmly, this might cause connection pins untouched.
I am not sure what the Pentax 360 FGZ II settings look like, but with my Metz 52 AF-1 I have just been using plain old P-TTL or P-TTL HSS with the Acon no-problems, in X mode, TAv etc, with K-1, K-3 also no problems.

What lens are you using to do your tests with? If you use a modern Pentax zoom, when you zoom in-and-out with the Acon's mounted, do you see your flash head respond to the focal length changes?

It's worth noting too that some manual focus, manual aperture lenses don't work with P-TTL, which may consequently cause problems for the Acons.

Last edited by rawr; 11-22-2016 at 07:04 PM.
11-22-2016, 08:08 PM   #40
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In answer to a couple suggestions above. I did (as noted) jiggle/wiggle both flash on receiver show and transmitter in camera shoe several times to see if they were seated properly (the Acon units have a lot more contacts than required by the Pentax flash system),and also made sure the locking pins went down smoothly and fully, which should insure conact alignment. However,I will jiggle/wiggle some more (do not watch me, it isn't pretty). I was using the 28-105 on the K1, as that happened to be on it, but I did not try zooming to see if the flash responded. As noted, I tried the flash on pTTL, which is the default startup mode, but I also switched it to "master TTL" generally used when for a two-flash wireless setup. I will experiment more tomorrow, maybe with my Metz 52, and perhaps also with the K3 instead of the K1.

---------- Post added 11-22-16 at 10:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
You must use firmware 516 for sender and firmware 516 receiver fix firmware for K1 and 360II. or change the flash to other models. firmware 3.6 isn't supported.
Now, that may be the answer. Must see if I have the firmware 516 downloads. Do you know: if 516 firmware is installed, will the Acon units function ONLY with K1 + 360II, or will they also work with a K3 and/or Metz 52? I have the hope that I will get these things working, but it's been a little exasperating.
11-22-2016, 09:24 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
In answer to a couple suggestions above. I did (as noted) jiggle/wiggle both flash on receiver show and transmitter in camera shoe several times to see if they were seated properly (the Acon units have a lot more contacts than required by the Pentax flash system),and also made sure the locking pins went down smoothly and fully, which should insure conact alignment. However,I will jiggle/wiggle some more (do not watch me, it isn't pretty). I was using the 28-105 on the K1, as that happened to be on it, but I did not try zooming to see if the flash responded. As noted, I tried the flash on pTTL, which is the default startup mode, but I also switched it to "master TTL" generally used when for a two-flash wireless setup. I will experiment more tomorrow, maybe with my Metz 52, and perhaps also with the K3 instead of the K1.

---------- Post added 11-22-16 at 10:12 PM ----------



Now, that may be the answer. Must see if I have the firmware 516 downloads. Do you know: if 516 firmware is installed, will the Acon units function ONLY with K1 + 360II, or will they also work with a K3 and/or Metz 52? I have the hope that I will get these things working, but it's been a little exasperating.

I suggest using Metz 52 which with Metz's newest firmware now . then go to firmware 516 and its fix firmware.


It should work with all of your models.


What ever, you should make sender front led blink green when half press shutter.

Last edited by andy888; 11-22-2016 at 09:49 PM.
11-23-2016, 01:24 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I have an Acon for heading out of the house to give me P-TTL and HSS on a single speedlight, but that's it ... I'll probably never buy another Acon receiver, unless I want a backup.

Well then, looks like I'll have to get you one! ..... Then I can link to your report eventually


Of course I want things to be accurate .... at this stage then perhaps I should limit it to saying I feel I have 'an accurate impression'
(that might be more accurate!) Fair enough that you want to pull me up to find the evidence .... I think you're responding to my particular posting style, which is to throw out something in the hope that it will generate an opposing, and correcting response. I am hoping that we will start to hear the positive and conclusive reports on these more complex operations with the Acons.


What we surely can agree on is that we all really want to see some good consistent user instructions and repeatable, reliable performance reports. We've had here the best laying out of Firmware installation details that have been seen, despite the ongoing frustration from the OP, and lets hope it leads to successful radio flashing soon. For now, there are elements of the experimental involved once we move beyond the single flash usage .... is that fair?


Finally, WPRESTO, just a quick thing, don't bother with the Wireless modes on your flash ('Master/Control/Slave') as these only apply to the Pentax optical triggering system. I think you just set standard P-TTL mode, and then set any particular sync modes (eg HSS, 2nd Curtain) as needed also on the flash.
11-23-2016, 04:35 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
just a quick thing, don't bother with the Wireless modes on your flash ('Master/Control/Slave') as these only apply to the Pentax optical triggering system. I think you just set standard P-TTL mode, and then set any particular sync modes (eg HSS, 2nd Curtain) as needed
Very true. Those wireless modes in the flash are redundant, and will likely get in the way of a flash working with the Acons.

An Acon Tx and Rx pair are merely the wireless equivalent of running a hot-shoe extension cord between a camera and a remote flash. You don't turn on the master/slave wireless flash modes when using a hot-shoe extension cord.
11-23-2016, 02:48 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
I suggest using Metz 52 which with Metz's newest firmware now . then go to firmware 516 and its fix firmware.


It should work with all of your models.


What ever, you should make sender front led blink green when half press shutter.

FYI: This morning I did download the single package of 516 firmware that is available from the Acon-Photo website. However, it may suffer the same problem I had with the 3.6 firmware download from that site, namely it is dot-rar form, which I have been totally unable to open or operate with my computers. Clicking on the 516 download just brings a message that it cannot be opened. I was able to install 3.6 only because I received an unsolicited EMAIL from Acon-Photo with an attachment that contained the firmware in a different format than dot-rar. For the version of 3.6 downloaded from the website, clicking on the install program to open it would bring an instant warning from the computer that it was contaminated, dangerous, and the computer absolutely would not run the install program.
11-23-2016, 03:36 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Of course I want things to be accurate .... at this stage then perhaps I should limit it to saying I feel I have 'an accurate impression'
(that might be more accurate!) Fair enough that you want to pull me up to find the evidence .... I think you're responding to my particular posting style, which is to throw out something in the hope that it will generate an opposing, and correcting response..
I know that misinformation is de rigeur on the Internet, but I have this fantasy that PentaxForums can actually be a trustworthy exception. Lofty ideal, I know!

You will have to jog my memory otherwise, but the only person I read hooking up two flashes at the same time was GraySaint. Clearly, one of his units was faulty, but that didn't stop him trying stuff!

You and I cannot offer an 'accurate impression' (your words) of features added in like the three groups, remote power operation, Nikon translation, etc because we have not used them. Nor will I even attempt to form a view until Andy888's claims (I haven't watched his videos) are verified by others, because like ClassA, someone who is in communication with the vendor is both an asset and a liability as far as being an independent reviewer goes.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
What we surely can agree on is that we all really want to see some good consistent user instructions .
They are like those of many products sourced from Chinese factories - abysmal.

We often criticize local distributors for adding their own bit to the price tags of what they bring into the country, but forget they can make them electrically compliant, add warranty or get a real technical writer to do a better job of the instructions.

Rawr was excellent in his own version, actually writing for the benefit of others.

As a Systems Engineer myself, I can tell a lot of electronics instructions are little more than the notes a product engineer has jotted down for himself. They're not extensive, because his head already carries exactly how this or that should be done.

Me, I've written documentation, and I don't like the end user to have to attempt the art of mind reading.
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