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12-11-2016, 06:11 PM   #1
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How to make a powerful HSS PTTL studio flash for Pentax

Today , Played around with the R930 pair. with my 2 pentax flashes, I sudently come to an idea. How about making a powerful studio flash ?

The technics are OK already, the triggers are able to trig a pentax setting to Master wireless. who emit light and optically trig other flashes.

If I bound them together, they can become 2 Times powerful than 1 flash.

We know for HSS, the compact flash is sometimes weak outside since the sun is too bright. You have to make the flash as close as possible.
This certaintly solve the power problem.

Then I tried, Yes, they fired together in Bi-directional mode. PTTL with compensation ability.

Second, this is PTTL, How about i set the power to Manual then I can control a fix output?

I then set the R930 transmitter to Manual mode. set the power stop to 1/128. and set the flash on the receiver to Wirelss Master.

That really works. Then I set stop to 1/64,1/32,1/16 ... 1/2, 1/1, Fine!

Well, I use to consider buying a powerful studio flash. Now I only need to buy a multi flash stand.

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.13.dyTqzc&id=528084292401&c...27b&abbucket=8


Last edited by andy888; 12-11-2016 at 06:24 PM.
12-11-2016, 07:14 PM   #2
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This technique also works we 3 Pentax units. I tried it a couple months ago. I figured this out when I wanted to be able to have some more bunch to my HSS work.
12-11-2016, 07:33 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
If I bound them together, they can become 2 Times powerful than 1 flash.
Inaccurate assumption here: Coupling multiple flash units together doesn't suddenly make them twice as powerful, all you are doing is spreading the same amount of light over a larger area.

Consider this: a single Elinchrom 1200ws studio flash is more powerful than 12 AF540FGZ flash units, and a lot easier to control, has faster t=0.1 times..and doesn't rely on AA batteries.
12-11-2016, 07:48 PM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Inaccurate assumption here: Coupling multiple flash units together doesn't suddenly make them twice as powerful, all you are doing is spreading the same amount of light over a larger area.
I usually agree with you but four 540's on 1/1 power is very close to the same output as a 300 watt strobe. Each flash that is added is one stop of light. Now HSS is less, but that still is the the case of a strobe. They both are less effective as the shutter speed goes up.
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Last edited by macman24054; 12-11-2016 at 08:15 PM.
12-11-2016, 10:00 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote

The technics are OK already, the triggers are able to trig a pentax setting to Master wireless. who emit light and optically trig other flashes.

If I bound them together, they can become 2 Times powerful than 1 flash.

We know for HSS, the compact flash is sometimes weak outside since the sun is too bright. You have to make the flash as close as possible.
This certaintly solve the power problem.

Then I tried, Yes, they fired together in Bi-directional mode. PTTL with compensation ability.

Second, this is PTTL, How about i set the power to Manual then I can control a fix output?

I then set the R930 transmitter to Manual mode. set the power stop to 1/128. and set the flash on the receiver to Wirelss Master.

That really works. Then I set stop to 1/64,1/32,1/16 ... 1/2, 1/1, Fine!
I'm not sure that I get this, Andy.

If the two flashes you've put together are in Manual mode, you're tricking them to fire, but not in HSS.
12-11-2016, 11:11 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by macman24054 Quote
four 540's on 1/1 power is very close to the same output as a 300 watt strobe.
It isn't. A 300ws strobe is vastly more powerful than four AF540FGZ units*. On the Pentax flash the T0.1 time is significantly slower, recycle times are slower, and controlling four flashes simultaneously is harder than just one strobe.

Adding in HSS is only going to diminish the GN of the flash units, using light shaping tools will drive the GN down even more.

* correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall at 1:1 power AF540FGZ is in the ballpark of 70ws, that is all the output you will ever get out of an AF540: no matter how many of them you have. If the subject to light distances are maintained a 300ws strobe will output 4X more light than four AF540FGZ strobes.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-11-2016 at 11:27 PM.
12-11-2016, 11:18 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Coupling multiple flash units together doesn't suddenly make them twice as powerful, all you are doing is spreading the same amount of light over a larger area.
Of course the light output will be doubled, in the area you make the flash units overlap with their output.

I use this technique all the time in order to reduce recycle times and prevent overheating (not so much for increasing light output).

QuoteOriginally posted by macman24054 Quote
Each flash that is added is one stop of light.
That's only true for the first flash you add.

Every time you double the number of flashes, you increase the output by one stop.

1->2: 1 stop increase
2->4: 1 stop increase
4->8: 1 stop increase

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
If the two flashes you've put together are in Manual mode, you're tricking them to fire, but not in HSS.
Correct.

In order to get manual control and HSS, you need flashes like the Godox V850 or Cactus RF60x that allow engaging an HSS mode manually (or have triggers that can activate their HSS mode automatically, when needed).

Perhaps Acon are using a way of controlling off-camera flashes manually while still allowing HSS to be used -- after all the Cactus V6II system can do this with any supported flash (not just P-TTL) -- but so far I haven't heard of that feature.


Last edited by Class A; 12-11-2016 at 11:24 PM.
12-11-2016, 11:29 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
A 300ws strobe is vastly more powerful than four AF540FGZ units.
On what basis are you saying that?

A GN58 flash has ~60-80Ws output. So four AF540 FGZ units are certainly not that far off from a 300Ws strobe.

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
On the Pentax flash the T0.1 time is significantly slower, recycle times are slower, and controlling four flashes simultaneously is harder than just one strobe.
I'm not commenting on the T.1 time and recycling times, because that depends on the particular strobe and speedlights one compares, but controlling four flashes with a good radio trigger is as easy as controlling one. You just put them in the same group and never worry about how many there are in one group.

The irksome issues with using multiple speedlights, AFAIC are,
  • extra mounting gear needed.
  • longer set up and break down times.
  • battery management (having one Li-Ion battery per flash only helps but it is still more cumbersome than dealing with just one strobe battery).
  • overheating resistance is typically not comparable to good strobes.
  • not always that easy to fill a light modifier compared to bare-bulb strobes.
  • no A/C option (although many strobes don't offer that either).

Last edited by Class A; 12-11-2016 at 11:36 PM.
12-11-2016, 11:35 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
On what basis are you saying that?
The basis is on the amount of light. With multiple flash units with their output areas overlapping, it wouldn't be able to match the area a 300ws strobe could illuminate.

There is also an issue with the quality of light, four point light sources over 1.
12-12-2016, 02:03 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The basis is on the amount of light. With multiple flash units with their output areas overlapping, it wouldn't be able to match the area a 300ws strobe could illuminate.

There is also an issue with the quality of light, four point light sources over 1.
The Pentax flash give the very good light quality.

since this is radio and optical combination. and the flashes very near. only the radio matter the reliability.

and, ony a pair of R930 to control, so it should much reliable than the other with a reciever at each foot of flash.

greatly reduce cost.
12-12-2016, 02:12 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote

In order to get manual control and HSS, you need flashes like the Godox V850 or Cactus RF60x that allow engaging an HSS mode manually (or have triggers that can activate their HSS mode automatically, when needed).

Perhaps Acon are using a way of controlling off-camera flashes manually while still allowing HSS to be used -- after all the Cactus V6II system can do this with any supported flash (not just P-TTL) -- but so far I haven't heard of that feature.
Prices are falling for the Godox Wistro portable HSS strobe and its clones.

At some point, I can see myself buying saying a Nikon one, and getting a Cactus or Acon to fire it on sunny days.
12-12-2016, 02:18 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
The Pentax flash give the very good light quality.
The quality of light is determined by the size of the light source (and the evenness of the illumination of the emanating light surface).
The Pentax flashes do as well and as bad as any other speedlight of their size. In other words, unless one bounces them or uses them with light modifiers, they produce very harsh light which is referred to as "low quality". Of course harsh light has its place and can be used to great effect in the right hands (Damien Lovegrove springs to mind) but there is a reason why there are big modifiers and bare-bulb flashes/strobes to be used with them.

QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
and, ony a pair of R930 to control, so it should much reliable than the other with a reciever at each foot of flash.
That is just plain misinformation. I'd ask what makes you state something absurd like that but frankly I don't have any hope for a good answer, based on your previous responses to my questions. Perhaps the reliability of your Acon triggers is lower than optical triggering, but I cannot confirm anything like this for any of the triggers I've used so far.

QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
greatly reduce cost.
A manual flash with a built-in radio receiver certainly is cheaper than a P-TTL flash + an Acon receiver.
Some will argue, it is also much easier to use in a multi-flash setup.
12-12-2016, 02:36 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Prices are falling for the Godox Wistro portable HSS strobe and its clones.

At some point, I can see myself buying saying a Nikon one, and getting a Cactus or Acon to fire it on sunny days.
I know you have a pair R930. So you can buy strobe if you like. no need to add any trigger to use HSS. as long as your strobe support " trigger by an externl PC or 3.5mm/2.5mm etc, cable.
12-12-2016, 03:18 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
I know you have a pair R930. So you can buy strobe if you like. no need to add any trigger to use HSS. as long as your strobe support " trigger by an externl PC or 3.5mm/2.5mm etc, cable.
I'm still on the oldest firmware, Andy, but with Rawr's rewriting of the instructions, I will have a go at upgrading some time.
12-12-2016, 03:26 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The quality of light is determined by the size of the light source (and the evenness of the illumination of the emanating light surface).
The Pentax flashes do as well and as bad as any other speedlight of their size. In other words, unless one bounces them or uses them with light modifiers, they produce very harsh light which is referred to as "low quality". Of course harsh light has its place and can be used to great effect in the right hands (Damien Lovegrove springs to mind) but there is a reason why there are big modifiers and bare-bulb flashes/strobes to be used with them.


That is just plain misinformation. I'd ask what makes you state something absurd like that but frankly I don't have any hope for a good answer, based on your previous responses to my questions. Perhaps the reliability of your Acon triggers is lower than optical triggering, but I cannot confirm anything like this for any of the triggers I've used so far.


A manual flash with a built-in radio receiver certainly is cheaper than a P-TTL flash + an Acon receiver.
Some will argue, it is also much easier to use in a multi-flash setup.
That is. I never like to use light directly. but I find s studio light is too hard. they are not apple to apple but apple to orange.

And, No misinformation from me. but you.

I use that. I know how reliable more clear than you. optically, 100% because they are very close.

radio. I got no misfire in my usage. I use to shoot several hunderds shoot like machine gun.

Yes I like that.

and I got the Wifi interference out by changing the CH. reliability is never a problem for me.

This is Cheap. because I never consider a pure manual lighting system. I am not that patient and pain. though some times I do use to make a carefully static picture.
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