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12-28-2016, 07:04 AM   #31
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Can we get real here? This is 2016, correct? I'm supposed to be purchasing a flash trigger that is controlled by multicolor LED's? Seriously?

This thing reminds me of a binary clock. Binary clocks are a cool novelty. I wouldn't use one as my primary time telling device though. The analogy is not great though because a binary clock is easier to understand than an Acon trigger. If Sony came out with a terrific phone that was not touch screen, would you buy it?

If Acon comes out with a version with an interface that looks like it was designed in this century, I will be very interested. Until then, I have no interest in learning morse code to control my flashes.

Having said all that, I appreciate all posts on this forum that help people make up their minds about what products to purchase. Thank you Andy for taking the time to make the videos and post them here. Acon does provide a product that provides PTTL radio control for one flash, so if you really need that, then at least there is something for you.

12-28-2016, 08:27 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake14mw Quote
Can we get real here? This is 2016, correct? I'm supposed to be purchasing a flash trigger that is controlled by multicolor LED's? Seriously?

This thing reminds me of a binary clock. Binary clocks are a cool novelty. I wouldn't use one as my primary time telling device though. The analogy is not great though because a binary clock is easier to understand than an Acon trigger. If Sony came out with a terrific phone that was not touch screen, would you buy it?

If Acon comes out with a version with an interface that looks like it was designed in this century, I will be very interested. Until then, I have no interest in learning morse code to control my flashes.

Having said all that, I appreciate all posts on this forum that help people make up their minds about what products to purchase. Thank you Andy for taking the time to make the videos and post them here. Acon does provide a product that provides PTTL radio control for one flash, so if you really need that, then at least there is something for you.
That obviously not for only one flash. this is mis info.

---------- Post added 12-28-16 at 09:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
You cannot stop attacking me (with unfounded allegations), can you?

Anyhow, attacks on me are just annoying to me and show poor form on your part but your attacks on competitor products may actually mislead people so I'll comment on them:

Alleged "Fake Manual": There is nothing fake about the manual levels produced by a V6II. All that you demonstrated is that some antiquated lightmeter technology is unable to take a pre-flash into account. Even the cheapest Yongnuo flashes manage to suppress pre-flashes, if so instructed. In any event, I don't know many people using lightmeters. They just give you a technically correct exposure starting point anyhow. Any artistic choices will mean subsequent tweaking. It doesn't take much longer to start with an educated guess and tweak from there. There are a few very isolated use cases for light meters but they are hardly relevant for the majority of flash users.

Lack of "Ready" signal: All decent flashes allow one to set them up so that they emit a beep when they have completely recycled. I don't know of any strobist who is asking for more than that. Yes, it would be nice if the camera could show in the viewfinder whether the flash is ready to fire again, but which flash system shows this ready signal after the slowest of a number of flashes has recycled? Does a system like that exist? Did the lack of such an "in viewfinder" indicator ever stop anyone using flashes successfully? A simple trick is to just not spray and pray like a madman when using flashes.
Well, light meter is rarely used by most, indeed for modern camera with very good light meter inside, and advanced TTL tech for flash.

Which you called "not advanced than manual".

Funny, When using Manual, you again attack the light meter for manual people.

I would not use manual without a light meter. it is very painful to do 'again and again mess'.
12-28-2016, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
.......I don't enjoy posting response to said individual's invalid claims, but I won't sit here and let someone write nonsense whether it is about Pentax, Sigma, or Cactus. I know that the products from these companies work and if someone makes absurd claims to the contrary, I will counter them. I hope you are OK with that.
Yes, its ok with me, although I doubt that any of the claims you have since addressed would be taken seriously by the audience here. Whilst I remain interested in the developments and experiments with Acon triggers, and believe that a set may well one day sit beside and complement my Cactus equipment, Andy's problem here is that he is creating an impression of having an agenda behind it all ....ie an anti-Cactus (and by extension anti-ClassA) agenda .....and that undermines the message.

What people need, especially those new to radio flash working, is a clear idea before purchase of how, in practice, a product will enable the technical lighting approach that is needed. Ideally you need a clear idea of this 'technical working approach' before even looking for equipment (this is the stage that so often we see left out here). So why did I end up with Cactus gear? Because after deciding what features and working techniques I needed, it was the clear documentation from Cactus (detailed manuals online) plus strong user reports on the forums, here and Cactus.

The combination of these resources allowed me to buy with confidence, knowing that I would be able to start shooting what I wanted straight away. And sure enough it worked exactly as I had read. So I feel that for Acon to succeed and become a significant choice for Pentax flash users, they will have to be able to break through a number of barriers ....the language and documentation ones in particular, because people have got to be able to visualise the equipment being used practically in their own particular flash working scenarios and see it as an obvious and logical solution to their needs.
12-28-2016, 06:36 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Yes, its ok with me, although I doubt that any of the claims you have since addressed would be taken seriously by the audience here. Whilst I remain interested in the developments and experiments with Acon triggers, and believe that a set may well one day sit beside and complement my Cactus equipment, Andy's problem here is that he is creating an impression of having an agenda behind it all ....ie an anti-Cactus (and by extension anti-ClassA) agenda .....and that undermines the message.

What people need, especially those new to radio flash working, is a clear idea before purchase of how, in practice, a product will enable the technical lighting approach that is needed. Ideally you need a clear idea of this 'technical working approach' before even looking for equipment (this is the stage that so often we see left out here). So why did I end up with Cactus gear? Because after deciding what features and working techniques I needed, it was the clear documentation from Cactus (detailed manuals online) plus strong user reports on the forums, here and Cactus.

The combination of these resources allowed me to buy with confidence, knowing that I would be able to start shooting what I wanted straight away. And sure enough it worked exactly as I had read. So I feel that for Acon to succeed and become a significant choice for Pentax flash users, they will have to be able to break through a number of barriers ....the language and documentation ones in particular, because people have got to be able to visualise the equipment being used practically in their own particular flash working scenarios and see it as an obvious and logical solution to their needs.
In contrast, most I did is to against mis info from a group of " strong user " it seems.

12-29-2016, 02:05 AM   #35
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That's ok Andy, It's good to correct mistakes, but I think you have to move away from seeing the Acons as competing with the Cactus lineup .... They both have different strengths and 'user cases' I believe, and that is what should be emphasised so that people can make the right choice based on what flashes they have and the technical working approach needed.

Tiny differences in things like timing won't matter ....what matters is clear understanding of the operations, and a practical visualisation of how the triggers provide a needed solution. This is what Cactus is able to provide to people at present, which brings a huge advantage.
12-29-2016, 09:51 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
timing "won't matter",fake manual "won't matter", no TTL "won't matter",

I don't think so.
If timing were that critical to people we'd all be using sync cords. And we're not, so I guess that it doesn't matter in most practical uses.

"Fake manual" is a term you have coined, apparently to disparage Cactus products because you favour a product from a different manufacturer. The Cactus triggers allow you to dial in the power and it works. Nothing fake about that.

This also brings up an important question: since you have access to prototype Acon products then what is your relationship with Acon? If you have an undisclosed relationship with the manufacturer then skewing a review to favour them at the expense of a competitor is ethically dubious.

No TTL is something I could not care less about. For me TTL is like using the camera in 'P' mode and hoping that you're going to get a great shot. You'll likely get an average or acceptable shot, but rarely a great shot in 'P' mode. TTL is the same. I want to control my lighting, so manual is the way to go for me. And I always shoot in 'M' mode as well (except 'X' for flash), so I like to have full creative control. If I was desperate for TTL I'd consider the Acon or just use something like my Vello cord, but it really is a non-issue to me.

In your summation you've picked on really minor shortcomings of the other products, but failed to address that fact that the Acon has a next-to-unusable user interface (the morse code analogy was spot on), and from all the threads here I could add: seemingly terrible customer service, no readily-available documentation that English-speaking people can understand, and a cumbersome and error-prone firmware update process.
12-30-2016, 02:40 PM - 1 Like   #37
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Andy

There are still two important questions outstanding that you haven't answered regarding the Acons.
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I agree that during manual control there should ideally be no pre-flash.

<snip>

So how does the R930 do it?

The R930 is first and foremost a P-TTL trigger, right?
So normally, there is a pre-flash, correct?

Now the R930 also supports manual remote control, but how can it prevent the pre-flash from occurring in this case?

Does the R930 still imply a delay, but just manages to not issue a pre-flash?
Does this work for all flash models (e.g., Pentax AF 540 FGZ II)?

Are we talking about the same situation, that is remotely controlling the power level via the camera-mounted transmitter?

Of course, if one puts a flash into manual mode than even a V6II can trigger it without causing a pre-flash. But that would mean no remote power-level control.
Are you controlling the power of the flash from the Acon transmitter and avoiding the pre-flash, so that the light meter gets a proper reading, or are you controlling it from the flash itself when you are comparing it to the 'fake manual' mode of the Cactus?

QuoteOriginally posted by paulster Quote
This also brings up an important question: since you have access to prototype Acon products then what is your relationship with Acon? If you have an undisclosed relationship with the manufacturer then skewing a review to favour them at the expense of a competitor is ethically dubious.
What is your relationship with Acon? This has been asked more than once and you have dodged the question each time.

12-30-2016, 08:00 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by paulster Quote


What is your relationship with Acon? This has been asked more than once and you have dodged the question each time.
Yep, time to 'come clean', Andy!



12-30-2016, 09:50 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yep, time to 'come clean', Andy!
Whoo. I don't think I like to response to affensive from any "strong users", BTW, I would like to response to one ID only. thanks.

-----------
I have interest in research for paulster. and Class A.

Since I felt Class A style in paulster. So I read his post carefully.

Well, I don't believe this ID is a native american.

All around cactus product. That is , OK, fine. and Class A English style, alike. carefully type and , not native feel. Since I response to Class A many times. I felt this.

OK. this is , my felt.

Last edited by andy888; 12-30-2016 at 10:26 PM.
12-31-2016, 02:01 AM   #40
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So it all started with the Chinese, then the Kiwis came along, and now the Native Americans have joined in! That just shows the power of flash photography to bring the peoples of the world together!

Last edited by mcgregni; 12-31-2016 at 02:09 AM.
12-31-2016, 02:14 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
So it all started with the Chinese, then the Kiwis came along, and now the Native Americans ! That just shows the power of flash photography to bring the peoples of the world together!
That isn't about nations! it is very obviously. I don't think anything about Racism. of cause , which you try to bring up.

I only want to research for Why there 2 ID make the same words style. at least for me.
12-31-2016, 02:18 AM - 1 Like   #42
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Just trying to lighten things up a bit Andy ....hey, 'lighten things up', there's another flash joke
12-31-2016, 03:42 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Just trying to lighten things up a bit Andy ....hey, 'lighten things up', there's another flash joke
Fine. Joke is OK.

Last edited by andy888; 12-31-2016 at 03:48 AM.
12-31-2016, 04:56 AM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by andy888 Quote
Whoo. I don't think I like to response to affensive from any "strong users", BTW, I would like to response to one ID only. thanks.

I'm serious here, Andy.


If you don't answer Paulster's question, I won't trust you in the future - even though I am an Acon owner.


He asks - quite fairly, I think everyone would agree:


"since you have access to prototype Acon products then what is your relationship with Acon? If you have an undisclosed relationship with the manufacturer then skewing a review to favour them at the expense of a competitor is ethically dubious."


This is a very important issue. You may in fact be acting unethically by promoting products on this forum.
12-31-2016, 05:30 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I'm serious here, Andy.


If you don't answer Paulster's question, I won't trust you in the future - even though I am an Acon owner.


He asks - quite fairly, I think everyone would agree:


"since you have access to prototype Acon products then what is your relationship with Acon? If you have an undisclosed relationship with the manufacturer then skewing a review to favour them at the expense of a competitor is ethically dubious."


This is a very important issue. You may in fact be acting unethically by promoting products on this forum.
Clarkers. Hope you not mind. Do you believe in God?
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