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06-22-2017, 11:37 AM   #1
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K3-II + V6 II + XT32C + AD200 = HSS frustration :(

Hello:

So I finally bought a V6 II to get more seriously into the HSS world. I had a solution to "HSS-sync" with my AD200 and my other Godox flashes but my setting was really big and not practical.

My V6 II arrived yesterday. I still didn't have a XT32C, and my old FT-16 was broken, so I checked HSS putting my dear RF605N on top of the V6 II, Pentax camera + manual flash + power sync ('7' adjustment). Ok, it was a success, I could fire the AD200 or the AD360. 'Normal HSS' mode didn't work, but OK, I could use 'Power Sync' and it worked up to 1/8000. I checked also more combinations:

* K3 II + V6 II ==> V6 (as receiver, nikon SB-28 profile) + ad360 -> success
* K3 II + V6 II + Metz 48 AF-1 (on top of my V6 II, TTL pass mode & Metz 50 af-1 profile) -> success, I could fire my flash, zoom worked, PTTL HSS worked and I also could fire my ad360 that had a V6 receiver on the hotshoe, all at the same time.

So imagine how happy I was yesterday.

Today I received my XT32C. It's really nice, so small...
So I put it on the V6 II shoe, put my AD200 on wireless mode, adjusted channels and groups...etc

... but it didn't work (above 1/180). I noticed that i was using a Canon profile, as the XT32C was detected as a Canon flash.
No problem... I changed to manual flash and it started to fire. I used the Power sync mode and the same settings as the previous day.
But I got a lot of banding, only with low speeds (near sync speed) and high power settings I could fill all the frame.
What was happening ? I tried with all the possible combinations, including all the canon profiles... I have to use the manual flash, this is clear. I also tried using a sync cable from the V6 II to the XT32C, but same results.

After thinking, reviewing, trying, checking and re-testing HSS with my V6 receiver or the RF605N transceivers my conclusion is that the XT32C IS DISABLING HSS ON MY AD200, no matter if I enable or disable HSS on the AD200, the result is the same, as if I the AD200 were firing as normal, not using HSS. No matter how I fire the XT32C, on top of the V6 II, using a sync cable, using all the possible flash profiles...
The behaviour is different if I use other triggers, there is an obvious difference if I enable (works) or disable (banding) the HSS on the AD200.

So, I there a solution? Do really needs the XT32C a real Canon camera to work with HSS? Isn't the V6 II supossed to behave as a Canon camera for a Canon-type flash?

The only idea I have now is to get a XTR-16 receiver, put it on the AD200's USB port, disable wireless mode and check. Yes, sounds silly, to disable the 2.4GHz wireless and put a 2.4GHz wireless receiver on the USB port. But I could HSS-sync my AD200 with my old FT-16 and 433MHz receiver put on that port. Also the sync port works too.

Or maybe there is a way to disable the 'advanced HSS features' of the XT32C.

I don't know what more to do . Any idea ? BTW, I have the last fw versions.

King regards,
Javier.

06-22-2017, 12:45 PM   #2
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I don't know the specifics of these products, but if we can just talk in concepts firstly .....


Could the problem be that you are trying to emulate a Canon E-TTL HSS solution, but on a Pentax camera? For now, the V6II does not provide full cross brand digital TTL functionality. If your Trigger system is designed to provide automatic E-TTL High Speed Sync, then that can't be enabled to work with a Pentax camera .... for now. I believe the promised 'TTL Without Boundaries' firmware update for the V6II may well enable this solution.


I'm assuming your previous equipment worked because it offered a 'Manual Mode' solution .... so you were able to send a basic trigger signal to the strobe light which fired a pulse long enough to allow the 'hyper-sync' technique to illuminate the whole frame. Some powerful strobes even allow manual power level control whilst still illuminating the whole frame .... hotshoe flashes can't do this and can only use full power.


If my theory is right (and I say again I don't know the tech details of your products, but its usually best to think in concepts first anyway), then what you said could be exactly right .... that the trigger is causing the strobe to jump out of HSS mode because it requires E-TTL communication, which it would only get if the trigger was mounted on a Canon camera.


I hope I'm wrong, because I hope you can get it to work!

Last edited by mcgregni; 06-22-2017 at 12:54 PM.
06-22-2017, 03:00 PM   #3
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Hello mcgregni, thanks for your post.

My equipment is described on this post Anyone getting the Godox AD200? - PentaxForums.com. I still was using my old method to get HSS to work. I just changed all the combination of P-TTL flash and V6 getting the optical HSS signal, etc... for a single V6 II.
I can enable manually HSS on my remote flashes, so I'm quite sure I'm not using powersync, but HSS. With HSS I can sync up to 1/8000 with less than 1/1 power, with hypersync I need to fire at full power to get a long pulse and avoid banding. I just put the remote flash in HSS mode, capture the HSS signal with the V6 II, fire the trigger that it's on top and it's done.

As my old FT-16 was broken during a recent job, I decided getting a new trigger based on the new 2.4GHz system, but also manual, so my options was XT16 or XT32. As the XT32 allows to control groups, enabling and disabling groups, it was perfect for me: only one trigger to control power, enable or disable remote flashes and also HSS (putting it on top of a V6II, of course).

As far as I know, the XT32C is a manual only trigger (so no TTL) that allows HSS. What exactly means that 'allows HSS'? I'm not sure, but as you suggest, something is needed to tell to this trigger to fire using HSS. Is it part of the 'E-TTL' protocol ? I have no idea . If I put a dumb trigger on top of the V6 II, a receiver on the sync port of the AD200, and enable HSS manually on the AD200, HSS works.

What is strange for me is that HSS is enabled on the AD200 but the XT32C just ignore it or disable it while firing the flash. More strange is that the XT32C is recognised by the V6 II as a canon flash, but after that, is not able to fire it. Just press the V6 II fire button and nothing happens, in TX or RX mode. Maybe just the V6 II doesn't know how to correctly handle this device. I just need to configure it as a Manual flash. But you can even configure it as a Pentax flash and it fires. Only with the Canon profile doesn't fire.
Really, apart from the HSS issue, this trigger just solve all my needs, it's just that I don't want to have a trigger to work below 1/180s and another for HSS work. I could use the XT32C for the main work, and use my RF605N trigger for HSS... well, it's a solution, but ... I just wanted a single trigger, I have too many different triggers now.

Regards.
06-23-2017, 04:51 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Godox change the sync priorities when they introduced the AD600. They are not the same as on the previous generation of Godox flashes, so the same may be true for the AD200. Never have been able to obtain HSS AD600 by stacking the Godox trigger in the hot shoe of the Cactus V6ii like I could with the AD360. The solution to obtaining HSS on the AD600 was simple. Use two Cactus V6ii. One in the hot shoe of the camera (TX Mode, Camera - Pentax and Flash - Nikon) and the other attached to the AD600 (RX and Flash set to Manual) by a sync cord. Tried ever flash setting on the Cactus transmitter, but none worked but the Nikon Flash setting. The power setting can't be controlled by the Cactus trigger and receiver, but the solution is to have your Godox trigger handy to decrease/increase your flashes power settings on the flash remotely. Try this solution on the AD200 and see if it works.

As a side note the Cactus V6ill will not pass the HSS sync though to the Godox trigger if the the firmware is above V1.1.006. Cactus has been advised of this but the have not corrected the problem to date.

06-23-2017, 06:46 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
Hello mcgregni, thanks for your post.

My equipment is described on this post Anyone getting the Godox AD200? - PentaxForums.com. I still was using my old method to get HSS to work. I just changed all the combination of P-TTL flash and V6 getting the optical HSS signal, etc... for a single V6 II.
I can enable manually HSS on my remote flashes, so I'm quite sure I'm not using powersync, but HSS. With HSS I can sync up to 1/8000 with less than 1/1 power, with hypersync I need to fire at full power to get a long pulse and avoid banding. I just put the remote flash in HSS mode, capture the HSS signal with the V6 II, fire the trigger that it's on top and it's done.

As my old FT-16 was broken during a recent job, I decided getting a new trigger based on the new 2.4GHz system, but also manual, so my options was XT16 or XT32. As the XT32 allows to control groups, enabling and disabling groups, it was perfect for me: only one trigger to control power, enable or disable remote flashes and also HSS (putting it on top of a V6II, of course).

As far as I know, the XT32C is a manual only trigger (so no TTL) that allows HSS. What exactly means that 'allows HSS'? I'm not sure, but as you suggest, something is needed to tell to this trigger to fire using HSS. Is it part of the 'E-TTL' protocol ? I have no idea . If I put a dumb trigger on top of the V6 II, a receiver on the sync port of the AD200, and enable HSS manually on the AD200, HSS works.

What is strange for me is that HSS is enabled on the AD200 but the XT32C just ignore it or disable it while firing the flash. More strange is that the XT32C is recognised by the V6 II as a canon flash, but after that, is not able to fire it. Just press the V6 II fire button and nothing happens, in TX or RX mode. Maybe just the V6 II doesn't know how to correctly handle this device. I just need to configure it as a Manual flash. But you can even configure it as a Pentax flash and it fires. Only with the Canon profile doesn't fire.
Really, apart from the HSS issue, this trigger just solve all my needs, it's just that I don't want to have a trigger to work below 1/180s and another for HSS work. I could use the XT32C for the main work, and use my RF605N trigger for HSS... well, it's a solution, but ... I just wanted a single trigger, I have too many different triggers now.

Regards.
To be honest, I could not follow all that you were doing in your post, but I will pass along my experience. When I got my AD360, I got the Godox X-1TC transmitter to go with it. Everything worked as expected. I wanted to do HSS with it. I got a Cactus V6ii and followed the instructions in one of the Godox Cactus HSS threads. I put the X1 on top of the V6 ii and HSS worked, and to my surprise worked with my K-5iis in AV mode as well. I also bought the Godox XT32C transmitter, and it works fine in the hot shoe by itself, but it does NOT work for HSS when I put it on top of the V6 ii. As was stated in other threads, the latest firmware versions for the V6ii prevent HSS from working for Pentax. I think it's the last 3 versions that do not work. I think they are up to version 19, but you have to go back to 16 for HSS to work for Pentax.
06-23-2017, 11:28 AM - 1 Like   #6
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Hello and thanks for your inputs. Yesterday night I was reading several post on the Cactus forums about the XT32C, AD200, and found what seems to explain why I can get HSS with some triggers but not with the XT32C.

Darryl is right when he says that, compared to the AD360, sync triggering could have changed on more modern GODOX devices.
Also Jake is right pointing that the XT32C is not handled correctly by the V6II.

I was sure to read on the AD200's manual that the XT32C was a valid trigger for HSS, but I didn't found any referente to that, so for using all the advances features of the AD200, like TTL, HSS, etc, it seems the X1 transmitter is needed. I really don't need TTL now but maybe, in a near future, and as Cactus is releasing X-TTL, I could get TTL using a X1C on top of my V6 II, but who knows, maybe it could work, maybe not.

Ok, sorry for the long introduction. What I found and seems the key is that the AD200, when set on wireless mode, that is, using it's internal 2.4GHz receiver, is ignoring the forced HSS mode. On the AD360, for example, you can put HSS mode manually, if you fire this flash you will allways get HSS pulses, no matter if you are firing at 1/30 or 1/3000. On the AD200 you can set manually the flash on forced HSS, but here is the problem: if the AD200 is set on wireless mode, the flash ignores that, and you need your transmitter to be able to set the AD200 to HSS. So what you get on wireless mode and forced HSS is just a normal pulse. So it's not that the XT32C is disabling the HSS mode, but at the contrary, is not enabling it. I'm not sure now if, with a Canon camera and the XT32C on top of the camera, I could fire my AD200 in HSS or only the X1 triggers are able to do that.

I received today a XT16 & XT16R (yes, more triggers $$ ) and made more tests, and this is what I found for getting or not HSS with the AD200.

* AD200 on wireless mode, Manual, and forced HSS:
You can't get HSS with a V6II and FT-16, XT-16 or XT32C on top. Maybe with a X1T could work (but I don't have such trigger)

* AD200 without wireless mode and forced HSS:

A. V6 II with a dumb trigger (like the RF605N) on top, and a receiver connected to the sync port of the AD200 -> HSS works
B. V6 II with FT-16/XT-16/XT32C on top and FT16R/XT16R on AD200's USB port -> HSS works

HSS can be forced when you use the sync or USB ports, but not in wireless mode. It's not very logical for me, but this is how the AD200 works today. Think about that, I'm disabling the internal 2.4GHz receiver and puting another (equal) 2.4GHz receiver on the USB port to get HSS, seems crazy.

Another conclusion reading your last post and my own experience: V6 II seems to handle correctly the X1T-C on top but not the XT32C (you need to use a manual flash profile).

Regards,
Javier.
06-23-2017, 02:25 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake14mw Quote
To be honest, I could not follow all that you were doing in your post, but I will pass along my experience. When I got my AD360, I got the Godox X-1TC transmitter to go with it. Everything worked as expected. I wanted to do HSS with it. I got a Cactus V6ii and followed the instructions in one of the Godox Cactus HSS threads. I put the X1 on top of the V6 ii and HSS worked, and to my surprise worked with my K-5iis in AV mode as well. I also bought the Godox XT32C transmitter, and it works fine in the hot shoe by itself, but it does NOT work for HSS when I put it on top of the V6 ii. As was stated in other threads, the latest firmware versions for the V6ii prevent HSS from working for Pentax. I think it's the last 3 versions that do not work. I think they are up to version 19, but you have to go back to 16 for HSS to work for Pentax.
Forgot to ask, in your experience, how is the handling of the XT32C compared to the X1T-C ?
BTW, last V6 II version is V1.1.010, and it pass the HSS signal to the hotshoe.
Regards.
06-23-2017, 08:14 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
Forgot to ask, in your experience, how is the handling of the XT32C compared to the X1T-C ?
BTW, last V6 II version is V1.1.010, and it pass the HSS signal to the hotshoe.
Regards.
To be honest, I haven't used it that much since it doesn't work in HSS. In many ways, it's a simpler interface. If you are working with only one flash, I think it is the way to go. If you are working with multiple flashes though, I like the fact that you can see the power levels of three flashes at once with the X1. Yours is the first report that I have seen that any Cactus firmware past 1.06 worked for Pentax HSS.

06-23-2017, 09:38 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
* AD200 without wireless mode and forced HSS:
Another option that should work would be to connect a V6 (or V6II) via a sync-cable to the AD200.
This would allow you to avoid a trigger stack on your camera.

I hope that the "forced HSS" approach still allows you to use the XT32C for remote power control. If it does then you'd still have remote power control.

It is a pity that Godox does not respect the manual HSS override when the AD200 is in "wireless" mode.

Likewise, it is also regrettable that the V6II and XT32C are not playing with each other.

AFAIC, it is hard to identify the product that isn't holding up their end of the "deal". After all, the XT32C seems to work with Canon cameras but the V6II also seems to work with Canon flashes. I'm assuming both products only implement the protocol as much as needed for their purposes and it is their combination that results in problems.

Cactus have stated on their community forum that they don't officially support "trigger stacking". I guess it make sense from their perspective as it would probably cause a lot of extra effort to achieve compatibility not only with Canon flashes but also third-party products that emulate the Canon protocol in some way.
06-24-2017, 05:45 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Another option that should work would be to connect a V6 (or V6II) via a sync-cable to the AD200.
This would allow you to avoid a trigger stack on your camera.
I don't have a 3.5mm male to male cable so I can't test it, but I'm quite sure it will work, as you are using the sync port. I tested that combination with my AD360. Put my V6 (Mk I) on the AD360's hotshoe and enabled the HSS mode on the AD360. It worked. As you pointed, one advantage is that you don't need stacking. A disadvantage is $$ .

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I hope that the "forced HSS" approach still allows you to use the XT32C for remote power control. If it does then you'd still have remote power control.
You can control the AD200 on Manual mode, regardless if you enabled forced HSS, wireless or not. This is another big advantage of the AD200 compared to the AD360. I made some pics yesterday at 1/1000 without issues, changing the power of the AD200 in HSS mode, it's really easy now to make a HSS setup.

---------- Post added 06-24-17 at 05:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jake14mw Quote
To be honest, I haven't used it that much since it doesn't work in HSS. In many ways, it's a simpler interface. If you are working with only one flash, I think it is the way to go. If you are working with multiple flashes though, I like the fact that you can see the power levels of three flashes at once with the X1. Yours is the first report that I have seen that any Cactus firmware past 1.06 worked for Pentax HSS.
After my FT-16 was broken, my idea was to buy the X1T-C but, as I read that it seemed to have some problems with XT16R receivers, and seems that Godox is about to release a (better) X2 trigger, I bought the XT32C instead.

I could buy the X1 trigger and compare to the XT32, I still can return my XT32 and XT16 triggers. I need a trigger to control groups, the XT32C can do it, but you can't see all the flashes at one, power levels and enabled/disabled status.
06-25-2017, 06:29 AM   #11
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Cactus + Godox X32c + QT 600 + TT600 is working perfect with HSS.

Setting of cactus are:
camera: Pentax
flash: manual
TX

On the all flashes must be enabled (with button HSS)
07-29-2017, 12:13 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ventzy Quote
Cactus + Godox X32c + QT 600 + TT600 is working perfect with HSS.
It would be nice to compile a compatibility matrix with entries showing which combinations work and which don't.

I find it very hard to maintain an overview of what actually works because both the stacked trigger type and (only in case of Godox?) the triggered flash matters.

Anyone up for starting a respective thread?
I'd do it, but I wouldn't be able to promise that I can always respond in a timely manner.
The idea would be to always update the first post containing the matrix (table) whenever someone posts new information. Wading through a thread with lots of individual posts to find the combination one is looking for, would be too cumbersome.

I don't think we should wait for Cactus to create that matrix for us, because they don't officially support trigger stacking.
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